E39 530i slightly wandery at speed.
Discussion
As above, my E39 seems a bit wandery at speed, tramlining I suppose, in as much as constant small corrections have to be made. It's nowhere near the stage of constantly "sawing at the wheel" thankfully. Worth noting that on a billiard table flat road it's fine and will happily cruise at "some" mph.
It's going to a specialist next week to have this looked at and have an MoT, but there's so many things it could be I wondered if anyone had any ideas?
-Over the past 12 months it's had new front dampers, and in the past 3 months it's had front control arms (upper and lower), track rods and track rod ends, ARB bushes and drop links, and NSF wheel bearing (everything but the dampers done by me and I had a 4 wheel alignment carried out immediately afterwards). It certainly feels a lot sharper at the front.
-I also had two near rear tyres, Kumho PS71 (if that helps!) but the fronts are still Kumho PS31s. I wonder if a mismatch of tyres front to back isn't helping, or that the fronts where scrubbed in on slightly worn suspension? Incidentally, what tyres do other people use on their E39s? Mine's got 235 45 R17 all round.
-Within the last 2 years its had rear control arms and rose joint bushes, but as far as I'm aware the rear dampers are the originals.
-there is a vibration under braking which did go when I changed the arms, but I do now suspect brake calipers. It had new discs and pads in the last year or so, and I'm not generally heavy on brakes.
Is this just an E39 thing that they are a little wandery?
It's going to a specialist next week to have this looked at and have an MoT, but there's so many things it could be I wondered if anyone had any ideas?
-Over the past 12 months it's had new front dampers, and in the past 3 months it's had front control arms (upper and lower), track rods and track rod ends, ARB bushes and drop links, and NSF wheel bearing (everything but the dampers done by me and I had a 4 wheel alignment carried out immediately afterwards). It certainly feels a lot sharper at the front.
-I also had two near rear tyres, Kumho PS71 (if that helps!) but the fronts are still Kumho PS31s. I wonder if a mismatch of tyres front to back isn't helping, or that the fronts where scrubbed in on slightly worn suspension? Incidentally, what tyres do other people use on their E39s? Mine's got 235 45 R17 all round.
-Within the last 2 years its had rear control arms and rose joint bushes, but as far as I'm aware the rear dampers are the originals.
-there is a vibration under braking which did go when I changed the arms, but I do now suspect brake calipers. It had new discs and pads in the last year or so, and I'm not generally heavy on brakes.
Is this just an E39 thing that they are a little wandery?
No they are not wandery at all. Before doing the wheel alignment check for suspension wear by raising the wheels and doing a 3/9 and 6/12 o'clock check. If all ok then do a wheel alignment.
On my old e34 the wandering was caused by the steering bolts being loose and the box had been moving slightly when driving...so it's worth checking the steering rack is tight and has no internal play.
How wide are your tires and is all ok if surface is smooth?
On my old e34 the wandering was caused by the steering bolts being loose and the box had been moving slightly when driving...so it's worth checking the steering rack is tight and has no internal play.
How wide are your tires and is all ok if surface is smooth?
naturalaspiration said:
No they are not wandery at all. Before doing the wheel alignment check for suspension wear by raising the wheels and doing a 3/9 and 6/12 o'clock check. If all ok then do a wheel alignment.
On my old e34 the wandering was caused by the steering bolts being loose and the box had been moving slightly when driving...so it's worth checking the steering rack is tight and has no internal play.
How wide are your tires and is all ok if surface is smooth?
I jacked the front of the car up the other day and grabbed each wheel - no play whatsoever so at least I'd managed to do something right when I rebuilt the front On my old e34 the wandering was caused by the steering bolts being loose and the box had been moving slightly when driving...so it's worth checking the steering rack is tight and has no internal play.
How wide are your tires and is all ok if surface is smooth?
. I rocked the steering wheel slightly and there was motion at the business end, as it were.Caveat being I haven't jacked up the rear
It had a 4 wheel laser alignment after doing the front end, but of course there was no guarantee that was done correctly. (Although the people I use are generally very good)
Tyres are 235mm wide, and it seems ok on a smooth surface.
If just a bit of correction is needed when on uneven surface that's normal with 235s - especially if you have a bit of steering play.
There is no problem at all with front tyres not being the same as rears. As to the front tyres: is there any sign of uneven wear especially at the edges?
Also as tyres wear out they slowly lose their shape and the surface becomes choppy - all this makes them more "nervous" compared to brand new tyres. But if this is within limits just carry on until they need replacing. In everyday use you do want rear tyres to be better than fronts so best not to swap unless you want to have some oversteer fun.
As to the brakes, there may be excessive pad material transfer (there always is by design) leading to unwanted buld ups on the disc. If this is getting progressively worse I would try pads with harder compound. Those should, albeit slowly, wear off the excess material. That's how I cured my braking wobble - after having changed discs twice only for the vibration to return within a couple of thousand miles. Easy to check if caliper is sticking - car slowing down on even road, pulling to one side, burning smell due to brakes overheating, alloy hot to touch, wheel difficult to turn when raised, etc.
There is no problem at all with front tyres not being the same as rears. As to the front tyres: is there any sign of uneven wear especially at the edges?
Also as tyres wear out they slowly lose their shape and the surface becomes choppy - all this makes them more "nervous" compared to brand new tyres. But if this is within limits just carry on until they need replacing. In everyday use you do want rear tyres to be better than fronts so best not to swap unless you want to have some oversteer fun.
As to the brakes, there may be excessive pad material transfer (there always is by design) leading to unwanted buld ups on the disc. If this is getting progressively worse I would try pads with harder compound. Those should, albeit slowly, wear off the excess material. That's how I cured my braking wobble - after having changed discs twice only for the vibration to return within a couple of thousand miles. Easy to check if caliper is sticking - car slowing down on even road, pulling to one side, burning smell due to brakes overheating, alloy hot to touch, wheel difficult to turn when raised, etc.
Edited by naturalaspiration on Friday 29th March 01:18
naturalaspiration said:
If just a bit of correction is needed when on uneven surface that's normal with 235s - especially if you have a bit of steering play.
There is no problem at all with front tyres not being the same as rears. As to the front tyres: is there any sign of uneven wear especially at the edges?
Also as tyres wear out they slowly lose their shape and the surface becomes choppy - all this makes them more "nervous" compared to brand new tyres. But if this is within limits just carry on until they need replacing. In everyday use you do want rear tyres to be better than fronts so best not to swap unless you want to have some oversteer fun.
As to the brakes, there may be excessive pad material transfer (there always is by design) leading to unwanted buld ups on the disc. If this is getting progressively worse I would try pads with harder compound. Those should, albeit slowly, wear off the excess material. That's how I cured my braking wobble - after having changed discs twice only for the vibration to return within a couple of thousand miles. Easy to check if caliper is sticking - car slowing down on even road, pulling to one side, burning smell due to brakes overheating, alloy hot to touch, wheel difficult to turn when raised, etc.
That's the weird thing - there is no steering play. However as you say 235s are relatively wide. The front tyres don't have any weird wearing to the edges. I'll take your advice and get some harder compound pads - currently got Brembo pads up front, but I must admit I don't know how they compare in terms of hardness of compound.There is no problem at all with front tyres not being the same as rears. As to the front tyres: is there any sign of uneven wear especially at the edges?
Also as tyres wear out they slowly lose their shape and the surface becomes choppy - all this makes them more "nervous" compared to brand new tyres. But if this is within limits just carry on until they need replacing. In everyday use you do want rear tyres to be better than fronts so best not to swap unless you want to have some oversteer fun.
As to the brakes, there may be excessive pad material transfer (there always is by design) leading to unwanted buld ups on the disc. If this is getting progressively worse I would try pads with harder compound. Those should, albeit slowly, wear off the excess material. That's how I cured my braking wobble - after having changed discs twice only for the vibration to return within a couple of thousand miles. Easy to check if caliper is sticking - car slowing down on even road, pulling to one side, burning smell due to brakes overheating, alloy hot to touch, wheel difficult to turn when raised, etc.
Edited by naturalaspiration on Friday 29th March 01:18
I noticed last night and this morning that it seems to have a high speed vibration, I'll get all four wheels balanced as a matter of course.
When you do that make sure you visually inspect the wheel and/or tyre for any deformations as the wheel is spinning on the balancing machine - the machine obviously cannot pick that. If limited, turning the tyre on the rim until they cancel each other out may help - then put weights. If excessive you need to true the bent wheel/change tyre.
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