BMW automatic transmission oil choice?
Discussion
They say it's got oil for life but at 194,000 miles my neighbour's X5 is shifting a little lumpily and i suggested as a first try a change of fluid. But what to use? Presumably we won't get all of the oil out from a simple plug drain so what's the best stuff to use would you say? I have read in the past that without major hassles some oil stays in the drive train, in the torque converter for example.
Anyone done a transmission change on a 3.0D BMW? Oh and did it help?
Anyone done a transmission change on a 3.0D BMW? Oh and did it help?
Where in the world are you?
Its a ZF box and ZF recommend the oil being changed at "i think" its 60-80.000.
But theres a whole load of other bits and pieces in there to change too.
AFAIK, oil filter is attached to the sump pan, theres 2 sump pans (plastic and metal), mechtronic seals.
then theirs apparently a certain temp the box or the oils got to be to get a proper reading and you ll need to reset the adaptations.
ECP do the whole lot as a deal.
Its a ZF box and ZF recommend the oil being changed at "i think" its 60-80.000.
But theres a whole load of other bits and pieces in there to change too.
AFAIK, oil filter is attached to the sump pan, theres 2 sump pans (plastic and metal), mechtronic seals.
then theirs apparently a certain temp the box or the oils got to be to get a proper reading and you ll need to reset the adaptations.
ECP do the whole lot as a deal.
Use the ZF oil (lifegaurd, I think it's called). The 'box is developed with it in mind and as such is likely to give the best quality shifts and the most reliability.
Changing the oil requires using a scan tool to monitor temperature. In a nutshell, the transmission is filled from cold until it dribbles out, then the engine must be run to a particular temperature when the oil must be quickly topped up again (while the engine is running) so it is dribbling out. It must not be filled before this temeprature, and when the fluid gets too warm then you must not continue filling - there is a narrow range, so you must be quick.
You will not drain all the oil out - the 'box holds near on 10 litres, you might get 5 or 6 out. Lots stays in the torque converter.
Replace the pan with a genuine ZF item, which also houses the filter. I think ZF do a kit which also includes a new connector as well for the electronic connections.
There is likely a procedue written in great detail somewhere on the internet, and I know youtube have some videos outlining the procedure but may not go completly into detail. If you dont feel 100% comfortable, take it to a specialist and expect to pay £400-£600 (the oil is very expensive and you need several litres)
As said, ZF recommend servicing between 60,000 and 80,000 miles. For what its worth, my wife had the oil in her ZF unit replaced at 112,000 miles (with new filter and other gubbins), and the shifting was noticably improved afterwards (how much of that was the reset adaptations I dont know, but it certainly was a whole lot better). Well worth doing.
Changing the oil requires using a scan tool to monitor temperature. In a nutshell, the transmission is filled from cold until it dribbles out, then the engine must be run to a particular temperature when the oil must be quickly topped up again (while the engine is running) so it is dribbling out. It must not be filled before this temeprature, and when the fluid gets too warm then you must not continue filling - there is a narrow range, so you must be quick.
You will not drain all the oil out - the 'box holds near on 10 litres, you might get 5 or 6 out. Lots stays in the torque converter.
Replace the pan with a genuine ZF item, which also houses the filter. I think ZF do a kit which also includes a new connector as well for the electronic connections.
There is likely a procedue written in great detail somewhere on the internet, and I know youtube have some videos outlining the procedure but may not go completly into detail. If you dont feel 100% comfortable, take it to a specialist and expect to pay £400-£600 (the oil is very expensive and you need several litres)
As said, ZF recommend servicing between 60,000 and 80,000 miles. For what its worth, my wife had the oil in her ZF unit replaced at 112,000 miles (with new filter and other gubbins), and the shifting was noticably improved afterwards (how much of that was the reset adaptations I dont know, but it certainly was a whole lot better). Well worth doing.
Edited by thatdude on Friday 5th April 10:14
Edited by thatdude on Friday 5th April 10:16
What a feckin nightmare that is then! Why can't he just drain it via a bolt as much as he can and replace it then do the same in 250 mile's time to make sure most of the oil is new? Temperature sensitive? Surely it's OIL we are changing not the engine's deepest innards? Jezzuz.
The car's worth about 3 grand so i don't see him spending 600 quid on new gear oil.
Thanks for the info anyway. The few auto trans oil changes i have done over the years, i have just used ATF and that was that and luckily no ill-effects. But i had heard that the ZF is a fussy unit, hence i i asked.
The car's worth about 3 grand so i don't see him spending 600 quid on new gear oil.
Thanks for the info anyway. The few auto trans oil changes i have done over the years, i have just used ATF and that was that and luckily no ill-effects. But i had heard that the ZF is a fussy unit, hence i i asked.
Grindle said:
What a feckin nightmare that is then! Why can't he just drain it via a bolt as much as he can and replace it then do the same in 250 mile's time to make sure most of the oil is new? Temperature sensitive? Surely it's OIL we are changing not the engine's deepest innards? Jezzuz.
The car's worth about 3 grand so i don't see him spending 600 quid on new gear oil.
Thanks for the info anyway. The few auto trans oil changes i have done over the years, i have just used ATF and that was that and luckily no ill-effects. But i had heard that the ZF is a fussy unit, hence i i asked.
Auto boxes are complicated, and rely heavily on the oil level to get the correct pressure etc for the valve body to work properly ( as well as all the other magic that goes on in thre). You can keep doing multiple oil changes, but in all fairness even replacing some is a good insurance. In any case, it's far cheaper than rplacing the transmission or the vheicle if it goes bang because it wasnt serviced. The car's worth about 3 grand so i don't see him spending 600 quid on new gear oil.
Thanks for the info anyway. The few auto trans oil changes i have done over the years, i have just used ATF and that was that and luckily no ill-effects. But i had heard that the ZF is a fussy unit, hence i i asked.
ZF Transmission - How to Change Oil and what to pay attention to.
https://www.zf.com/unitedkingdom/en_gb/corporate/a...
https://www.zf.com/unitedkingdom/en_gb/corporate/a...
At 194'000, I'd be saving the money towards a rebuild. It's near the end of its life. The oil will be like chocolate cake by now.
XF 6HP boxes are tricky. Could also be the bridge seal and the four tubular seals between the mechatronics unit and the box casing. On GM's it was the two solenoids for main oil pressure and solenoid lock up.
Also, with that mileage, what's the next big thing to fail? The gearbox is subliminally telling you to get rid of it whilst it still runs and drives.
XF 6HP boxes are tricky. Could also be the bridge seal and the four tubular seals between the mechatronics unit and the box casing. On GM's it was the two solenoids for main oil pressure and solenoid lock up.
Also, with that mileage, what's the next big thing to fail? The gearbox is subliminally telling you to get rid of it whilst it still runs and drives.
ZF oil can be expensive, but only get the OEM. I think it needs a sump replacement as well, that is what I have been told by a reputable north west BMW specialist. They however advised that if the gears change fine then don't change the oil. Only when it starts leaking or there is lumpy changes do you change the oil in the gearbox. Based off what you are saying, the gears should be done. It won't stop working, there undoubtedly will be wear in the box from not changing the oil but the change should solve issues.
Have wondered about doing my own gearbox oil change on my E53 X5. ECP wants £40/litre for the oil. Found the part number for the ZF oil change kit and found it online https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/zf-getriebe-88158... Looks like 7 litres of oil included with the filter for rather less than ECP's cost of the oil.
rayyan171 said:
ZF oil can be expensive, but only get the OEM. I think it needs a sump replacement as well, that is what I have been told by a reputable north west BMW specialist. They however advised that if the gears change fine then don't change the oil. Only when it starts leaking or there is lumpy changes do you change the oil in the gearbox. Based off what you are saying, the gears should be done. It won't stop working, there undoubtedly will be wear in the box from not changing the oil but the change should solve issues.
That advice is ridiculous. Imagine not changing your engine oil until you heard a bottom end rumbling. No - transmission oil should be changed at specified intervals just like any other fluid subject to heat and mechanical forces. It serves as a preventative measure. The sump pan houses the filter, so should be replaced.
thatdude said:
That advice is ridiculous. Imagine not changing your engine oil until you heard a bottom end rumbling. No - transmission oil should be changed at specified intervals just like any other fluid subject to heat and mechanical forces. It serves as a preventative measure.
The sump pan houses the filter, so should be replaced.
I agree that it *should* be preventive maintenance. That said there does seem to be anecdotal evidence that first changing the oil at high mileage subsequently results in issues.The sump pan houses the filter, so should be replaced.
thatdude said:
That advice is ridiculous. Imagine not changing your engine oil until you heard a bottom end rumbling. No - transmission oil should be changed at specified intervals just like any other fluid subject to heat and mechanical forces. It serves as a preventative measure.
The sump pan houses the filter, so should be replaced.
Engine oil gets hotter, works much harder and is subject to far more contaminants. How many 200'000 mile automatic BMW's are still running on original trans oil with a gearbox that still works? After 125'000 miles, the oil in mine had turned from clear to light brown but wasn't filthy black. Only did the sump and Mechatronics seal as they were both starting to sweat oil. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. The sump pan houses the filter, so should be replaced.
Automatic boxes go wrong for various reasons - failed solenoids, broken drums etc and all the oil changes in the world won't prevent that. Oil changes fall into the 'desirable' category rather than essential.
Yes, they can start to whine after an oil change as the oil is now thinner.
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