e9x / e6x diesel for daily - advices

[cedrichn]

Hi all,

I am currently driving around 22k per year to commute to work (add on top of that holidays/weekend, variable), on a CT2200h. My commute to work is 1/3 in London suburb, and 2/3 on motorway. The CT200h is doing a great job on the reliability and consumption aspect, but now start to get high mileage on the clock… I am thinking of selling it before it loose all of it values.

I am looking towards a saloon car, as I would like more comfort too (I have a toy for the weekend ). Naturally, the IS300h would be great for the job, but the price are still a bit high (to my mind)... It is why I consider the e9x/e6x for the job, as they would already have devalue (a lot), so would be a good keeper. Sadly, I would have to go back to diesel if I want to keep the same running cost as the CT...

What I am hoping for:
- High reliability
- Comfort: good/great sound-proofing, low vibrations, no rattles (not a fan of diesel…and Hybrid are so quiet in city/traffic)
- Possibility to DIY: I make the maintenance of the CT200h, and would like to do it on the next one. Not a mechanic, but I can do the “basics”
- Good MPG
- Cruise control, Sat Nav and leather with electrical seats (yes, the Map will be from previous century, but that’s fine)

What I don’t (really) care:
- Auto or Manu: I prefer the reliable one
- Touring, Coupe, Saloon…that’s fine !
- Other options than the one mentioned above
- High power/torque: I drive cooooooool for the commute. But I don’t want to consume more because the engine is too small…

My shortlist is 318d, 320d, 520d, 525d and 530d, I think on M47/57 only ? I know they are not ULEZ compliant, that’s fine too.

Please give me your advice/feedback: difference between 3 and 5 series, engines, manu/auto, reliability, etc….. I am looking for the best compromise consumption/tax/reliability/comfort between them.
I am all ears, thanks (and thanks for reading :P)

[Rowe]

I'd steer clear of anything 4 cylinder of that era of BMW.
You'll get more for your money in a 5 series, but you really want to be looking at the later years to have a nice idrive and an efficient engine. Personally i think they're a much nice car, but definitley more of a barge to drive compared to the 3 series.


I've an early 30d which is shocking on fuel on my commute, but it'll easily do over 40 on a run. The 25d in the LCI 5 series is the same engine as the 30d so that might be advantageous for you with regards to ULEZ, but it can be remapped to the same output as the 30d.


That being said, they're not without their problems. There are alot of ropey motors about which are looked after poorly.
the 30/35d engines can have leaky rocker covers, oil filter housings, and they like to munch through glow plug controllers and thermostats.
The autos are generally reliable if they've been looked after with an oil change at around 100k, but clutches inside them car wear and isn't cheap to fix.

Personally i'd absolutely not consider a manual - maybe thats just because i'm lazy though.

[Manmoths]

Don't bother with ANY four-cylinder. Scratch all of those off the list.

For your purposes, go for any M57 engined model. So that's pre-LCI 325/330d and all 335d, pre-LCI or LCI 335d were all still M57. Same applies for the 5 Series, but I'd go 3. Cheaper to run and nicer to drive IMO.

I have a 335d LCI Touring. Best car I've ever had and rock-solid with the right maintenance.

[cerb4.5lee]

I've had a E90 330d auto and it was one of the best all round cars I've had for sure. I've also had a E61 520d manual and I really liked the way it drove but I didn't like the engine much at all in that car and the manual gearbox is a poor match to the 20d engine.

The best advice I can give is to go for 6 cylinders and an auto gearbox with a diesel engine.

[cedrichn]

Thanks for your first feedbacks That's exactly what I am looking for: people who droves different ones...

335d LCI is attractive, for sure, but I am looking for an "economical commute car" (ok, we are on PH ). Problem is that you look at the 320d, but for a the same money you have 330d, for a bit more you have 335d, and just slightly more thirsty, you have 330i: i need to get this man-math out and back to the good economical compromise :P

Still, I kind of put the 318d-320d out also, because too many on the market and I guess hard to find in good condition (I would guess they have been more trash too [stereotype ON ])

Do you have some approx. value of difference of consumption Auto/Manu ?
No comment around the difference 5 series VS 3 series: I would guess the 5 is more comfortable with better sound-proofing ?

[cerb4.5lee]

The 5 series rides better than the 3 series(both cars on 18" wheels with run flats) in my experience, and the cabin just feels more roomy. The 3 series obviously feels a bit more sporty to drive though.

Mpg wise the E90 330d auto did 43mpg(mainly long journeys). The E61 520d manual did 44mpg overall(mixed use some town/some longer distance). I also had a E90 330i auto(mostly town with the odd long journey) and that did 26mpg overall.

The best car I've had performance/economy wise was a F13 640d auto and that did 40mpg overall(mostly long journeys though).

[sortedcossie]

I've put 30k on a late 2008 330d msport touring in the last 3 years. It took me over 3 months to find one that wasn't rough or with huge miles on, that also had a decent spec - I had to up my budget in the end. I can't fault it in fairness, its plenty fast enough and has taken us on three 2k per year West of France trips fully loaded with 2 adults and 2 kids plus roofbox. The computer was last reset last April and it's showing 38.1mpg at the moment, over around 8k miles on pretty mixed use.

I've had a few things cost wise, but nothing that couldn't happen on any other vehicle of this type:

1x Battery
1x Starter motor
1x major service (inc disks/pads all round) and it's due another now as I do them on 15k intervals.
1x gearbox oil change and filter clean (at 98k)
1x rear shock each side
1x rear lower control arm each side
1x rear upper arm bushes each side
1x full laser front and back geometry check and adjust
2x front tyres
4x rear tyres (the last two were due to a rear suspension problem wrecking a pair, hence the arms and stuff above)

I've also had to get a second hand set of wheels, hit a 6 inch deep pot hole at 60mph and damaged two.

I've got no intention of changing it anytime soon, it took too long to find! My advice would be to view and drive a few, they don't all drive the same.

[gizlaroc]

What MPG are you getting from the CT200h?

I have owned all the above pretty much.

I will go through MPG figures first, mine are all autos, would not consider a manual with a diesel engine.

I do around 25-30k miles a year, 15k is on the main roads, 6-8k is local stuff and 6-8k is in cities, mainly London.

I have done lots of resetting of the OBC to see how much MPG differs in town, on a run blah blah blah.

All figures below are actual, taking into account how far out the OBC can be.
(The diesel obc were often out by as much as 10%, petrols were pretty spot on. When I say facelift I tend to be talking about pre and post efficient dynamics, updated gearbox software, grille flaps that closed, regen braking etc.)


Pre facelift 320d touring
Run 42mpg
Local 31mpg
Town 28mpg
Overall 35mpg

Facelift 320d touring
Run 50mpg
Local 35mpg
Town 32mpg
Overall 37mpg

Pre facelift 330d Touring
Run 43mpg
Local 32mpg
Town 25mpg
Overall 34mpg

335d pre facelift touring
Run 39mpg
Local 30mpg
Town 25mpg
Overall 33mpg

335i pre facelift Touring
Run 38mpg
Local 28mpg
Town 24mpg
Overall 27mpg

330i pre facelift Touring
Run 35mpg
Local 28mpg
Town 24mpg
Overall 26mpg


535d pre facelift Touring
Run 36mpg
Local 28mpg
Town 24mpg
Overall 29mpg

530d facelift Touring
Run 42mpg
Local 33mpg
Town 31mpg
Overall 34mpg


The most comfy and the nicest is definitely the facelift 5 series, especially if you get it with some nice options fitted.

The one thing I will say though is nearly all of the ones out there will need suspension work doing.
Every single E61 facelift I looked at a couple of years back when wanting another one felt tired.
New control arms, drop links, anti roll bar bushes and importantly, dampers and top mounts up front. The rear seams to hold out better.

I have been looking for another E91 330i Touring recently, and went to see a few that are advertised out there, they were all the same.
Seller saying "yeah, they are a bit clunky but they are sports and run flats."
That is bks, they should be silent and feel super tight, not clunking over pot holes or raised iron works, they are actually pretty comfy cars when new, no reason they should not feel the same now.



You won't know if the car is reliable until you own it.
The auto gearbox on these is the ZF6HP, pretty bullet proof, worse case new solenoid valves for £200, but that is rare.

The 3 litre N52 petrol and M57 diesel are probably the ones to go for.
But they are getting to the age where things can start to play up.
Swirl flaps getting gunked up, same with EGR valves, thermostats need to be working 100% or DPF will just be getting more and more blocked up, start motors are known to go on these too.

These are now 10-17 year old cars, they will need some maintainance work doing to them, so be realistic.

One thing I found was that running a 10 year old E61 with 80k on it when I got it over 14 months and 33k miles was it was no cheaper than running a 4 year old 5 series touring with some finance.
Overall running costs on the 4 year old car have in fact been less.

No real repair bills, 44mpg vs 34mpg, far less on keeping it feeling tight than the older car and far less stress worrying "what's that now?"

Edited by gizlaroc on Thursday 23 January 11:03

[BFleming]

The OP is looking for reliability, but seeing as they stopped making the E60 10 years ago and the M47/M57 engines even longer ago, I'm not sure I'd choose either. This boils down to a couple of questions... what's your budget, and what do you consider to be high mileage? Your existing CT200h will bore you to death before it fails - whereas any of these older BMWs will be maintenance hungry at their age.
You don't hear of many people doing the hybrid thing then going back to a diesel. I guess circumstances can change etc - for long distances the Toyota hybrids aren't any more efficient than an equivalent petrol.

[Court_S]

As others have mentioned avoid the four pots but be aware that the E9x and E9x are both getting 9n a bit now so will need some TLC. My E90 330 was one of the most reliable cars that I’ve had and some MOT stalking indicates that it’s still going strong.

The M Sport cars with run flats could well feel a fair bit harder than what you’re used to. I had no issues with mine and always found the Sports seats really comfy on long runs.

[Manmoths]

I can only echo my earlier post and those of others, I'd go for an M57-engined auto. Even with the map (both gearbox and engine) mine will do 38mpg on a run, 32 mixed. Mental performance, nice chassis and all the room you'd really need. They're such complete cars, I'm so glad I went for one over the Leon Cupra ST and Golf R estate that I was looking at.

Good ones are pretty hard to find these days but worth seeking out if man maths kicks in.

Edited by Manmoths on Thursday 23 January 13:47

[helix402]

The answer is one with an M57.

[cedrichn]

Thanks for all your details, technical, with arguments/number: really interesting

Regarding the CT, i am doing yearly average 57MPG measured/real. A bit more in summer, a bit less in winter. I know I will have to increase my yearly budget compare to the CT (no tax, high MPG, low resident permit price, service DIY cheap and easy,....): this car is great for economy and reliability. But i want more comfortable, and a driving position which suits me better (lower and steering wheel more flat)... It is why I end up in BMW section

Regarding a more recent car (or an IS300h), my idea is to see what would be the advantage to take a car which already lost a lot of its value. At 22k, mileage and depreciation goes fast... But as you mentionned, consumption, tax and risks increase on an older one...

With your comments, I already narrowed the list: if 5, has to be 525 LCI. Tax, resident parking and consumption is just worse on all others... And they are more recent for not a lot of more money
Regarding the 3 series, looks like 99% of them are 320d.....
I will make some calculation to compare i/d thanks to the numbers you gave me

[sortedcossie]

Good luck with your searching!

[cedrichn]

sortedcossie said:

Good luck with your searching!

Thanks ! That's not easy, all the best 3 series Touring are here !

[Court_S]

Manmoths said:

I can only echo my earlier post and those of others, I'd go for an M57-engined auto. Even with the map (both gearbox and engine) mine will do 38mpg on a run, 32 mixed. Mental performance, nice chassis and all the room you'd really need. They're such complete cars, I'm so glad I went for one over the Leon Cupra ST and Golf R estate that I was looking at.

Good ones are pretty hard to find these days but worth seeking out if man maths kicks in.

Edited by Manmoths on Thursday 23 January 13:47

That’s lovely. I’d happily have bought another E9x if I’d had the time / will power to search one out like that.

[Manmoths]

Court_S said:

That’s lovely. I’d happily have bought another E9x if I’d had the time / will power to search one out like that.

Cheers, I wouldn't want to go through finding another again though!

Good luck with the search, OP

[cedrichn]

Is M47 really out of the scope ? Is it because the lack of power, or more due to vibrations/noise more present than on the M57 ? I don't care about the first point, but I do care (a lot ) about the second point... I had an Alfa GT JTD some years ago: good car, good engine too ! But really to present at idle/traffic: noise, vibrations,... I want to avoid repeating this experience

I have the 525dA LCI on my short list, as the cost package tax/parking/consumption is similar to a 325dA/330dA. 320dA looking even better... I will try to drive some this weekend, to see if I can go back ti diesel, and my feelings towards the Msport suspension

[Manmoths]

cedrichn said:

Is M47 really out of the scope ? Is it because the lack of power, or more due to vibrations/noise more present than on the M57 ? I don't care about the first point, but I do care (a lot ) about the second point... I had an Alfa GT JTD some years ago: good car, good engine too ! But really to present at idle/traffic: noise, vibrations,... I want to avoid repeating this experience

I have the 525dA LCI on my short list, as the cost package tax/parking/consumption is similar to a 325dA/330dA. 320dA looking even better... I will try to drive some this weekend, to see if I can go back ti diesel, and my feelings towards the Msport suspension

Neither, it's a reliability issue. The N47 is a hand grenade due to timing chain issues that are made worse when coupled with poor maintenance. I'd avoid them at all costs.

NVH is also a lot worse than the sixes, so if you're keen on that then it's another reason to swerve them. Be aware that the LCI 525d will be N57 and is less stout than the older M57. They also have chain issues but to a lesser extent than the four pot N47.

[cedrichn]

Are you sure for the engines ? I am using Wiki ( ), and it says that the 320d before reg57 is M47, and the 525d LCI is an M57...
I do want to avoid any N engines: i am alright with tie rod and wishbones to change, much less with hand grenade engines

EDIT - link :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E90)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_5_Series_(E60)