N47 Timing chain just failed - Latest info?
Discussion
Hi All,
My partner has a 2008 e92, 320d where the timing chain has just failed on the N47 engine. She has owned it from new, all recall work done, full BMW service history, just over 100k on the clock and even BMW didn't notice anything untoward with the chain, when it was in for some service work over Christmas.
As you can imagine, we're a little pissed off with this, so we're looking at putting up a fight and wondering if there are any useful resources out there?
We've found the BBC Watchdog stuff from 2013 and a 'no win, no fee' solicitor blogging about it but is there any other useful info?
Cheers,
M
My partner has a 2008 e92, 320d where the timing chain has just failed on the N47 engine. She has owned it from new, all recall work done, full BMW service history, just over 100k on the clock and even BMW didn't notice anything untoward with the chain, when it was in for some service work over Christmas.
As you can imagine, we're a little pissed off with this, so we're looking at putting up a fight and wondering if there are any useful resources out there?
We've found the BBC Watchdog stuff from 2013 and a 'no win, no fee' solicitor blogging about it but is there any other useful info?
Cheers,
M
Full BMW history and the first owner from new will help you, but the age may not.
I'd be inclined to get a rough quote from an independent, since some of them do so many nowadays, it might be less than thought. it also serves as a backup in case BMW tell you to go forth and fornicate with yourself.
I'd have your dealer fight the case, and get on to BMW with the mails. I don't think they'd do the full job for no cost to you, but might stump up parts and you pay the labour sort of thing.
it seems there's no reason or rhyme to a lot of these cases, so you may be looked after well, you may not.
Judging by other stories, if BMW do this, it might be worth paying the parts for a new clutch and flywheel (if they've not been done) and a new high pressure fuel pump. The chains and pumps seem to be the main weaknesses of the N47 engine currently.
I'd be inclined to get a rough quote from an independent, since some of them do so many nowadays, it might be less than thought. it also serves as a backup in case BMW tell you to go forth and fornicate with yourself.
I'd have your dealer fight the case, and get on to BMW with the mails. I don't think they'd do the full job for no cost to you, but might stump up parts and you pay the labour sort of thing.
it seems there's no reason or rhyme to a lot of these cases, so you may be looked after well, you may not.
Judging by other stories, if BMW do this, it might be worth paying the parts for a new clutch and flywheel (if they've not been done) and a new high pressure fuel pump. The chains and pumps seem to be the main weaknesses of the N47 engine currently.
It's 12 years old. Not sure what the lifespan of a car is supposed to be, but I think it has served you well. I can see BMW contributing precisely zero to the cost of repairs, but I think anyone who would let BMW carry out any such repairs on a 12 year old/100,000 mile car might be brainwashed by the whole 'it must go to a main dealer' thing. £2000 at an independent to repair (all being well, not knowing how much damage there is) or way more than the car will ever be worth to BMW.
I'm not even sure I would go through the expense of having BMW stamps in my service book after the car was 5 years old - unless you're considering selling it at (say) 6 or 7 years old when such things might make a difference.
I'm not even sure I would go through the expense of having BMW stamps in my service book after the car was 5 years old - unless you're considering selling it at (say) 6 or 7 years old when such things might make a difference.
Edited by BFleming on Tuesday 4th February 12:58
Keep us posted.
For what its worth, I was chatting to someone recently who's 123d (N47 twin turbo) chain had broken last year, again no notice etc, but his was a miler (150k from memory). He considered trading it (they wouldn't take it), scrappies etc, but eventually just punted it on Ebay, and got almost £2k for it 'as was'. I'd suggest you do similar. Any 'deal with the devil' at a main dealer that includes them doing you a favour to get rid of your old car will be in their interest, not yours.
For what its worth, I was chatting to someone recently who's 123d (N47 twin turbo) chain had broken last year, again no notice etc, but his was a miler (150k from memory). He considered trading it (they wouldn't take it), scrappies etc, but eventually just punted it on Ebay, and got almost £2k for it 'as was'. I'd suggest you do similar. Any 'deal with the devil' at a main dealer that includes them doing you a favour to get rid of your old car will be in their interest, not yours.
BMW will just laugh at you. It's a 12 year old 100,000 mile car. To them this is an acceptable lifespan although it's not in reality.
Bite the bullet and get it fixed. Engine out, head off and repair it. You're looking at a couple of grand unless it really has smashed everything to buggery in which case a used engine is required. You will need to have a new chain kit fitted before it's fitted though.
Alternatively, weigh it in and start again.
Bite the bullet and get it fixed. Engine out, head off and repair it. You're looking at a couple of grand unless it really has smashed everything to buggery in which case a used engine is required. You will need to have a new chain kit fitted before it's fitted though.
Alternatively, weigh it in and start again.
Touring442 said:
BMW will just laugh at you. It's a 12 year old 100,000 mile car.
Maybe so but there are known problems with this engine and BMW are playing a numbers game...Also, if you don't ask, you don't get.
Touring442 said:
To them this is an acceptable lifespan although it's not in reality.
Exactly......and I don't like corporate bullies.
M
Don't get it fixed, mine went on my 120d at 90k, luckily it didn't take out the top-end. BMW didn't want to know, and offered free parts + £4.5k labour bill.
I got it fixed at a very reputable Indy, and cost me £2.5k, along with a new vibration damper.
At 120k the HPFP failed and lunged the engine with metal fillings. Game over.
Bin it, don't replace it. N47 is a lemon
I got it fixed at a very reputable Indy, and cost me £2.5k, along with a new vibration damper.
At 120k the HPFP failed and lunged the engine with metal fillings. Game over.
Bin it, don't replace it. N47 is a lemon
Edited by skullandbiscuits on Tuesday 4th February 18:06
Edited by skullandbiscuits on Tuesday 4th February 18:07
Looking at it the car would be worth £4,000-£4,500 on a good day. Probably not worth repairing when in the end you'll need to stick a HPFP, clutch and flywheel whilst you're in there. Total bill ~£3,000 for a car worth £1500 more than that.
Offload it on eBay. I've found a nice Eastern Europen chap normally will normally buy it to break for parts, or will fix it and sell it on.
Offload it on eBay. I've found a nice Eastern Europen chap normally will normally buy it to break for parts, or will fix it and sell it on.
BFleming said:
It's 12 years old. Not sure what the lifespan of a car is supposed to be
Coming from mostly italian cars, this is just laughable.Edited by BFleming on Tuesday 4th February 12:58
12 years then the scraps? My 2001 Punto still runs like new, just service stuff over the years. So does my 1985 Fiat Argenta. Wtf?
Pereldh said:
BFleming said:
It's 12 years old. Not sure what the lifespan of a car is supposed to be
Coming from mostly italian cars, this is just laughable.Edited by BFleming on Tuesday 4th February 12:58
12 years then the scraps? My 2001 Punto still runs like new, just service stuff over the years. So does my 1985 Fiat Argenta. Wtf?
There aren't many 1985 Argenta's about - or people who who what they are. Luckily I do! 100, 110, 120 i.e. D or TD? Just curious. We had a 132, several 131's, even a 124 Special. They all rusted in our climate, but mechanically were good. Not great, but good.
At what point will all the various engine dramas start to impact on BMW's reputation? Mind you. VAG stuff can be pretty grim, and the superb old 4 and 5 cylinder Mercedes diesels were replaced ten years or more ago with stuff with, yep, timing chain problems.
I suspect most new car buyers don't care. 3 years and it's down the road and someone else's problem.
I suspect most new car buyers don't care. 3 years and it's down the road and someone else's problem.
I think there's very few truly 'bulletproof' engines nowadays. Even commercial stuff is suffering from oil dilution with so much fuel needing to be chucked in on a regen, and belts and chains having a bad time.
BMW is safe because they've sold so many N47s and B47s that the real chance of chain failure is quite low. It's like E46 subframe mounts that failed, or Porsche IMS bearing issues. They get blown out of proportion on the internet because nobody comes on to say 'My N47 is still fine'. Would I buy one knowing there's a decent risk? Not a chance. The chain, HPFP failure amongst all of the other modern diesel issues is too much for me.
Nowadays I'd steer clear of any 4 cylinder BMW engine post 2001 (M47 excluded). BMW got the sixes right for the most part, even if the N57 diesel chain is a bit 'eh'.
BMW is safe because they've sold so many N47s and B47s that the real chance of chain failure is quite low. It's like E46 subframe mounts that failed, or Porsche IMS bearing issues. They get blown out of proportion on the internet because nobody comes on to say 'My N47 is still fine'. Would I buy one knowing there's a decent risk? Not a chance. The chain, HPFP failure amongst all of the other modern diesel issues is too much for me.
Nowadays I'd steer clear of any 4 cylinder BMW engine post 2001 (M47 excluded). BMW got the sixes right for the most part, even if the N57 diesel chain is a bit 'eh'.
Touring442 said:
I suspect most new car buyers don't care. 3 years and it's down the road and someone else's problem.
Spot on. The majority of new car buyers are lease companies, and as long as a warranty is in place, and their customer is paying the bill, they don't care.Car manufacturers cut costs massively when developing new cars; using components that cost less increases profit and ensures that reliability is a finite quantity. BMW doesn't have a huge financial problem with snapping timing chains because:
- They don't make the N47 any more (the B47 uses the same chain though, so let's see)
- The majority of N47 timing chains didn't fail
- Those that do fail mostly don't do so in the warranty period
- They pay for failures in the warranty period as long as the service schedule has been adhered to
- They can offer a goodwill gesture for out-of-warranty claims (how kind) but mostly won't for an older car - and certainly won't for a car that doesn't have a full BMW service.
Ask yourself if (and it's a big IF) your N47 ever goes bang out of warranty, what would you do? If you're the kind of person that will jump up & down, complain to your dealer/BMW, put it on forums, etc why not take out an extended warranty on it NOW whilst it's still running fine? And make sure things like the timing chain & incidental damage are covered. Or change the chain now given you've done X miles and the car is Y years old. Or just accept it if & when it happens as long as you've had a decent run out of the car.
Just for a laugh, I just put my 2013 525d into the BMW warranty quote machine. £1801 per year
That would actually pay for a new timing chain fitted at my local specialist. I'll continue to take my chances.Edited by BFleming on Wednesday 5th February 11:18
BFleming said:
Or change the chain now given you've done X miles and the car is Y years old. Or just accept it if & when it happens as long as you've had a decent run out of the car.
If I had an N47 and was planning to keep it for the long haul I'd put a chain and HPFP on it, code the memory for Stop Start so it can be left off, and service it regularly. If it makes you feel any better I had a 123d with the N47........Turbo flaps went approaching 100k so had a large bill for that and sold it before the timing chain went.
Bought a 330i coupe instead..............then got stung by 4 new petrol injectors. On balance about £500 better off........
Bought a 330i coupe instead..............then got stung by 4 new petrol injectors. On balance about £500 better off........
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