Urgent sobering advice required
Discussion
OK, in a nutshell, I'm considering -
1) Buying a, "cheapest in the classifieds" E39 M5 as my daily
2) Flogging my E92 330i (daily) and cherished E30 325i (fair weather summer car) to cover the outlay
Motivation -
1) I've always wanted an M5 with a manual gearbox (ruling out the E60 and beyond)
2) The E39 seems to be the sweet spot of affordability / practicality / size / M soul
3) I'm not using the E30 much, I'd rather have one do it all car
4) If I don't do it soon the E39 will appreciate out of reach (man maths rules)
Cheapest in the classifieds E39 M5 is around ~£10k for >=150k miles. I'd prefer a facelift 2001ish model (doable), don't care about it having an outdated sat nav, but would like advice on other options and spec worth hanging on for.
I think I'll get around £10k for the E92 and E30 all in. You can see where I'm coming from - get an M5 for the net cost of £0 (or as close to as possible), with the possibility of a small reserve fund if my E30 has appreciated.
I've been out in an E39 M5 once and loved it. Sobering advice requested as this is an impulse buy and I appreciate I might regret it. The E92 and E30 are both looked after and sorted cars which I've owned for years - I could be going from motoring utopia (or something close) to motoring hell.
Send help.
1) Buying a, "cheapest in the classifieds" E39 M5 as my daily
2) Flogging my E92 330i (daily) and cherished E30 325i (fair weather summer car) to cover the outlay
Motivation -
1) I've always wanted an M5 with a manual gearbox (ruling out the E60 and beyond)
2) The E39 seems to be the sweet spot of affordability / practicality / size / M soul
3) I'm not using the E30 much, I'd rather have one do it all car
4) If I don't do it soon the E39 will appreciate out of reach (man maths rules)
Cheapest in the classifieds E39 M5 is around ~£10k for >=150k miles. I'd prefer a facelift 2001ish model (doable), don't care about it having an outdated sat nav, but would like advice on other options and spec worth hanging on for.
I think I'll get around £10k for the E92 and E30 all in. You can see where I'm coming from - get an M5 for the net cost of £0 (or as close to as possible), with the possibility of a small reserve fund if my E30 has appreciated.
I've been out in an E39 M5 once and loved it. Sobering advice requested as this is an impulse buy and I appreciate I might regret it. The E92 and E30 are both looked after and sorted cars which I've owned for years - I could be going from motoring utopia (or something close) to motoring hell.
Send help.
I would keep the current combo you have now. The E39 M5 is an absolutely brilliant car, but has the ability to melt even the most steely of wallets. If you're buying a 10k one, it will have had a few owners by now, and be needing some work, whether you know it or not.
Looking at AT for the 10k-ish examples, they don't look like the sort of thing that I would swap a sorted E92 and E30 for. I could spot things on all of them that would irritate me, and cost to be put right. Some things like wheels being the wrong colour, instrument cluster issues, iffy front lips and the like. S62 bits like VANOS work, bottom end bearings, clutches and the like isn't cheap either. The M tax is a real thing. E39s generally like a rust too.
Normally I'd be all for it, but selling a pair of sorted cars for one that may be 'less than' sorted is not my idea of greatness.
However, if you really do want to do it. Just do it, some moron on the internet (me) won't really convince you otherwise, and it's your own hard earned that you're plonking down. Take a few for a test drive in your price range to really thing whether it's what you want to be doing. But were I in your position, I think i'd be sticking with the devil(s) I know. I don't think E30 prices will be falling anytime soon.
Looking at AT for the 10k-ish examples, they don't look like the sort of thing that I would swap a sorted E92 and E30 for. I could spot things on all of them that would irritate me, and cost to be put right. Some things like wheels being the wrong colour, instrument cluster issues, iffy front lips and the like. S62 bits like VANOS work, bottom end bearings, clutches and the like isn't cheap either. The M tax is a real thing. E39s generally like a rust too.
Normally I'd be all for it, but selling a pair of sorted cars for one that may be 'less than' sorted is not my idea of greatness.
However, if you really do want to do it. Just do it, some moron on the internet (me) won't really convince you otherwise, and it's your own hard earned that you're plonking down. Take a few for a test drive in your price range to really thing whether it's what you want to be doing. But were I in your position, I think i'd be sticking with the devil(s) I know. I don't think E30 prices will be falling anytime soon.
OP I've considered this myself, and each time I keep coming back to worries about rust on the e39. They are lovely cars but getting pretty ancient by now and rust is going to affect all of them. It'll be a constant battle imo.
I wouldn't do it personally. I'd buy a e39 m5 as a toy instead of one of your cars but not both.
I wouldn't do it personally. I'd buy a e39 m5 as a toy instead of one of your cars but not both.
bmwmike said:
OP I've considered this myself, and each time I keep coming back to worries about rust on the e39. They are lovely cars but getting pretty ancient by now and rust is going to affect all of them. It'll be a constant battle imo.
E39 rust spots are pretty well known now - if you buy one that looks clean from above, at worst case you'll need to budget for sill replacement. That isn't such a huge job.S100HP said:
That's an E60 isn't it?The OP, if I read correctly, is after an E39 which, whilst not a cheap car, doesn't have the risk attached to the V10 E60.
Muzzer79 said:
S100HP said:
That's an E60 isn't it?The OP, if I read correctly, is after an E39 which, whilst not a cheap car, doesn't have the risk attached to the V10 E60.
S100HP said:
Muzzer79 said:
S100HP said:
That's an E60 isn't it?The OP, if I read correctly, is after an E39 which, whilst not a cheap car, doesn't have the risk attached to the V10 E60.
bmwmike said:
I wouldn't do it personally. I'd buy a e39 m5 as a toy instead of one of your cars but not both.
^^This, as good as e39's are I'd say most of them are getting a bit too long in the tooth these days to be daily drivers, speaking from experience I would imagine you'll spending a lot of money on an M5 to keep it in good condition if you're driving it daily. They are awesome cars though, I loved mine to bits!My e39 M5 (2003) is just on 109,000 miles
it is my daily driver
in the last < 3 years I have done over 37,000 miles in it
costs to date:
- some oil (surprisingly less than expected)
- a number of oil changes - more frequently than by the book by choice
- a couple of services
- a couple of MOTs
- 2 x set of tyres (£700 each set)
- one earthing wire in the boot lid which came loose (c. £3 to fix
)
- update of head unit and all equipment from the boot - by choice to Carplay (£1,700) - all original kit working and kept
- new set of brake disks and pads - £1,000 on the front (previous owner put on AP Racing kit which is brilliant) - c. £500 on the rear
- £12,000+ in fuel costs
so basically the only bit that has actually broken (v. consumables) was fixed for c. £3 of labour cost - tightening the screw for the earth wire!
huge amounts of fun - every time I drive it...
but - I bought one of the best on the market at the time at c. £20k - insurance values it currently at £25k for replacement - in reality, the mileage is the one thing which reduces the value a bit, however it is still virtually rust free (a bit starting on the boot lock, so about to sort that out - fine on the sills) and I have never had so reliable a car...
I wouldn't touch a cheap one with a barge pole - but one which is sorted and has had everything done to it the minute it is needed - pretty reliable... and definitely an awesome car...
it is my daily driver
in the last < 3 years I have done over 37,000 miles in it
costs to date:
- some oil (surprisingly less than expected)
- a number of oil changes - more frequently than by the book by choice
- a couple of services
- a couple of MOTs
- 2 x set of tyres (£700 each set)
- one earthing wire in the boot lid which came loose (c. £3 to fix
)- update of head unit and all equipment from the boot - by choice to Carplay (£1,700) - all original kit working and kept
- new set of brake disks and pads - £1,000 on the front (previous owner put on AP Racing kit which is brilliant) - c. £500 on the rear
- £12,000+ in fuel costs
so basically the only bit that has actually broken (v. consumables) was fixed for c. £3 of labour cost - tightening the screw for the earth wire!
huge amounts of fun - every time I drive it...
but - I bought one of the best on the market at the time at c. £20k - insurance values it currently at £25k for replacement - in reality, the mileage is the one thing which reduces the value a bit, however it is still virtually rust free (a bit starting on the boot lock, so about to sort that out - fine on the sills) and I have never had so reliable a car...
I wouldn't touch a cheap one with a barge pole - but one which is sorted and has had everything done to it the minute it is needed - pretty reliable... and definitely an awesome car...
Good advice - if you plan to put some miles on it there is no point buying a highly-priced low mileage example.
You need to find a high miler that has been looked after, but that can be challenging to track down.
But if you have your heart set on owning an E39 M5 I'd recommend finding a way to get one!
I've only ever regretted the things I didn't do, not the ones I did.
Well so far anyway! I've had two BMW E86 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years, but in December I got an E86 M coupe because I'm the wrong side of 60 and realised if I wanted one I had to just get one while I could still drive it!
And the "M" experience definitely feels special.
You need to find a high miler that has been looked after, but that can be challenging to track down.
But if you have your heart set on owning an E39 M5 I'd recommend finding a way to get one!
I've only ever regretted the things I didn't do, not the ones I did.
Well so far anyway! I've had two BMW E86 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years, but in December I got an E86 M coupe because I'm the wrong side of 60 and realised if I wanted one I had to just get one while I could still drive it!
And the "M" experience definitely feels special.
(I still remember that Top Gear Tiff feature with the 360 degree spins). Totally understand why you'd be after one OP.Thanks all. I realised yesterday that I've had the, "I want an E39 M5 NOW!!!" itch for a few years. It's getting more severe as time goes on, if I'm at the point of selling both cars to fund it now, the logical progression would be selling a kidney to fund it.
I'd be planning on using the M5 as a daily. I can relate to the comments about cheaper examples costing more to sort out, both the E30 and E92 were cheaper and have taken a lot of time, DIY and cost to sort out.
I think the depressing reality is that I can't afford an M5 of any vintage, not one worth buying. A £10k example is more likely to have problems than turn out as a surprise win.
Thanks for raising E30 values, I hadn't considered these. I'm rushing to get an E39 M5 before they appreciate, without considering if my E30 would appreciate in a similar way and keep the gap consistent.
I'd regret selling two sorted cars for one bad one, but my definition of bad would be structural rust, the engine blowing up or some other catastrophic mechanical failure. Selling two sorted cars for one which will take a few years of effort and reasonable expense doesn't scare me, so long as during that time it doesn't fail and take itself off the road.
Good to see comments from folks who are using E39 M5s as a daily. A question about rust and the winter - is it possible with regular washing and underseal changes to keep winter salt from causing harm?
A cheaper example with high miles doesn't bother me. It'd be a daily / forever car and all I'd be looking for on resale is to not lose too much, I don't view it as an appreciating asset / investment.
Maybe the best compromise is to keep my E30 forever (it's not mint, but it's very tidy, mechanically sound and rot free) and replace the E92 with an E39 M5 in a few years when I have the cash to buy a decent one. I fully expect the E39 M5 to appreciate out of reach though
I'd be planning on using the M5 as a daily. I can relate to the comments about cheaper examples costing more to sort out, both the E30 and E92 were cheaper and have taken a lot of time, DIY and cost to sort out.
I think the depressing reality is that I can't afford an M5 of any vintage, not one worth buying. A £10k example is more likely to have problems than turn out as a surprise win.
Thanks for raising E30 values, I hadn't considered these. I'm rushing to get an E39 M5 before they appreciate, without considering if my E30 would appreciate in a similar way and keep the gap consistent.
I'd regret selling two sorted cars for one bad one, but my definition of bad would be structural rust, the engine blowing up or some other catastrophic mechanical failure. Selling two sorted cars for one which will take a few years of effort and reasonable expense doesn't scare me, so long as during that time it doesn't fail and take itself off the road.
Good to see comments from folks who are using E39 M5s as a daily. A question about rust and the winter - is it possible with regular washing and underseal changes to keep winter salt from causing harm?
A cheaper example with high miles doesn't bother me. It'd be a daily / forever car and all I'd be looking for on resale is to not lose too much, I don't view it as an appreciating asset / investment.
Maybe the best compromise is to keep my E30 forever (it's not mint, but it's very tidy, mechanically sound and rot free) and replace the E92 with an E39 M5 in a few years when I have the cash to buy a decent one. I fully expect the E39 M5 to appreciate out of reach though
SoupAnxiety said:
Good to see comments from folks who are using E39 M5s as a daily. A question about rust and the winter - is it possible with regular washing and underseal changes to keep winter salt from causing harm?(
Difficult to protect any car against salt - however I don't think that despite the worries, these are major rusters - having just been restoring a classic RR - that was a car that knew how to rust! The e39 has some trigger points - sills / boot lid / boot key hole / petrol cap - where rust can occur, but if you keep on top of it then I don't see that as any more or less rusty that another car of 17+ years old. Like any older car it is better to buy as well as you can rather than try to sort out a poor example, but find a decent one and it is not too hard a car to look after...you mention that you have been out in an e39 - have you driven one yet? They are amazing cars - but they are not to everyone's taste, they are heavy cars and you have to actively manage their weight to enjoy driving them on country roads - get it right and they deliver a phenomenally silky beautiful drive - get it wrong and it will be lumpy and horrible - a Porsche 911 they are not!
Sounds like you have given it a lot of thought OP.
Its an interesting dilema to have. I think most of us on here have regretted selling "sorted" cars, only to find the next owner has wrapped your ex pride and joy around a tree within two weeks or similar.
I think the trick therefore is to get an E39 that is not perfect but a GOOD one, although that is easier to say than do. Decent beemers are hard to find as a lot have been thrashed especially the sporty variants. I would not be worried about millage or future values if it was a daily just the condition and service records/provinence. If you buy a cheap ropey one you may then have regrets.
If you could sell the E30 on a rising market you could get a good amount towards the car and not have to rush buying the E39 as you would still have a daily. Save a bit more and when you get the E39 you can see how you get on. Get it "sorted" and add extras such as stereo/winter tyres and rust proof underneath, then use and enjoy. The newer daily BMW could be sold to cover recent expenditure on the E39 or keep as a maintence fund to help with any stressful maintenance issues that could possibly crop up.
If you are prepared to sell both your cars it says to me your emotional attchment is in the M5 and thats the thing that makes a car a keeper. Its those cars you do not mind spending a bit of time and money on as you are not going to sell. If I had the financial recources I would run my 23 year old Beemer every day, but I have a long work commute so two cars is the only way at the moment. I used to run porsche 944's etc as everyday cars because thats what I wanted to spend my driving time in. They still felt special and there is something great in experiencing a car all year around in all weathers.
Just think how cool it is driving around in a modern classic that drives fantastically even though it may have 200k miles when everybody else is in a eurobox!
Just my tuppence worth
Good luck.
Its an interesting dilema to have. I think most of us on here have regretted selling "sorted" cars, only to find the next owner has wrapped your ex pride and joy around a tree within two weeks or similar.
I think the trick therefore is to get an E39 that is not perfect but a GOOD one, although that is easier to say than do. Decent beemers are hard to find as a lot have been thrashed especially the sporty variants. I would not be worried about millage or future values if it was a daily just the condition and service records/provinence. If you buy a cheap ropey one you may then have regrets.
If you could sell the E30 on a rising market you could get a good amount towards the car and not have to rush buying the E39 as you would still have a daily. Save a bit more and when you get the E39 you can see how you get on. Get it "sorted" and add extras such as stereo/winter tyres and rust proof underneath, then use and enjoy. The newer daily BMW could be sold to cover recent expenditure on the E39 or keep as a maintence fund to help with any stressful maintenance issues that could possibly crop up.
If you are prepared to sell both your cars it says to me your emotional attchment is in the M5 and thats the thing that makes a car a keeper. Its those cars you do not mind spending a bit of time and money on as you are not going to sell. If I had the financial recources I would run my 23 year old Beemer every day, but I have a long work commute so two cars is the only way at the moment. I used to run porsche 944's etc as everyday cars because thats what I wanted to spend my driving time in. They still felt special and there is something great in experiencing a car all year around in all weathers.
Just think how cool it is driving around in a modern classic that drives fantastically even though it may have 200k miles when everybody else is in a eurobox!
Just my tuppence worth
Good luck.
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