N62 V8s, 750i/650i etc... are they really that bad?
Discussion
Considering a 750i E65 as they are popping up at around 4k and seem to be a huge amount of car for the money. I've always liked how the facelift E65 looks and while I prefer E38s, they dont clear ULEZ.
I don't mind fuel consumption but I don't want to be constantly chasing issues. Valve stem seals are well documented but I've heard horror stories about some sort of central coolant hose, waterpumps, alternator gaskets and all sorts. Should I not bother? Interested to hear peoples experiences with these engines.
Also tempted by E61 530i but again, the tourings seem to be moneypits with tailgate and rear suspension issues. I just want a big comfy petrol car with a decent turn of speed but seems to be hard to come by without dealing with big issues.
I don't mind fuel consumption but I don't want to be constantly chasing issues. Valve stem seals are well documented but I've heard horror stories about some sort of central coolant hose, waterpumps, alternator gaskets and all sorts. Should I not bother? Interested to hear peoples experiences with these engines.
Also tempted by E61 530i but again, the tourings seem to be moneypits with tailgate and rear suspension issues. I just want a big comfy petrol car with a decent turn of speed but seems to be hard to come by without dealing with big issues.
I bought an old 550.
I know all the issues and bought it anyway.
I absolutely love it, these engines have issues but if you can fix them yourself it helps.
They ( in the e60 at least ) have some much crap you have to remove to get at anything You will incur large labour bills before you start.
It’s a shift to get at the rocker cover gaskets.
The engine is improved over its 4.4 predecessor but still has largely the same issues.
Water pipe through the valley.
This is improved on the 4.8 but could still be an issue, this is a job I would do myself.
Oil leaks.
Yeah, but it’s a BMW, while I love mine I don’t rate them in the put together stakes, the Alternator bracket gasket seems to be a ball ache and is mentioned often.
Valve stem seals.
If you want to do them yourself it’s pretty straight forward, again the time stripping all the s
t off the engine takes the time.
Also the is a tool now invented in the US that allows you to change them without removing the heads.
Mine does around 23 mpg and sounds/goes epic.
Timing chain cover is another oil leak, but if you are doing any of the above tackle it while you’re there.
The CCV is at the top of the engine and easy to get to.
That’s it really, mine has had valve seals and timing chain replaced by the previous owner under warranty.
I know all the issues and bought it anyway.
I absolutely love it, these engines have issues but if you can fix them yourself it helps.
They ( in the e60 at least ) have some much crap you have to remove to get at anything You will incur large labour bills before you start.
It’s a shift to get at the rocker cover gaskets.
The engine is improved over its 4.4 predecessor but still has largely the same issues.
Water pipe through the valley.
This is improved on the 4.8 but could still be an issue, this is a job I would do myself.
Oil leaks.
Yeah, but it’s a BMW, while I love mine I don’t rate them in the put together stakes, the Alternator bracket gasket seems to be a ball ache and is mentioned often.
Valve stem seals.
If you want to do them yourself it’s pretty straight forward, again the time stripping all the s
t off the engine takes the time.Also the is a tool now invented in the US that allows you to change them without removing the heads.
Mine does around 23 mpg and sounds/goes epic.
Timing chain cover is another oil leak, but if you are doing any of the above tackle it while you’re there.
The CCV is at the top of the engine and easy to get to.
That’s it really, mine has had valve seals and timing chain replaced by the previous owner under warranty.
Gooly said:
Considering a 750i E65 as they are popping up at around 4k and seem to be a huge amount of car for the money. I've always liked how the facelift E65 looks and while I prefer E38s, they dont clear ULEZ.
I don't mind fuel consumption but I don't want to be constantly chasing issues. Valve stem seals are well documented but I've heard horror stories about some sort of central coolant hose, waterpumps, alternator gaskets and all sorts. Should I not bother? Interested to hear peoples experiences with these engines.
Also tempted by E61 530i but again, the tourings seem to be moneypits with tailgate and rear suspension issues. I just want a big comfy petrol car with a decent turn of speed but seems to be hard to come by without dealing with big issues.
Do you know for sure that the NOx emissoins for an E38 are too high? I don't mind fuel consumption but I don't want to be constantly chasing issues. Valve stem seals are well documented but I've heard horror stories about some sort of central coolant hose, waterpumps, alternator gaskets and all sorts. Should I not bother? Interested to hear peoples experiences with these engines.
Also tempted by E61 530i but again, the tourings seem to be moneypits with tailgate and rear suspension issues. I just want a big comfy petrol car with a decent turn of speed but seems to be hard to come by without dealing with big issues.
Lots of pre 2003 cars / motorbikes can and have been exempted from the ULEZ charge. You need the NOx from the V5, EU CoC or manufacturer. Send that to tfl and they will exempt it.
They are that bad. Unless you only own it for five minutes or you get lucky it will cost you big bucks.
There will always be people who have said they have got work done for pennies but imo they have been lucky in knowing someone who knows the cars or been very good with research and gone out of their way to get stuff done at very best prices.
My experience is that unless you have hours and hours to spend on researching people to do work it will cost you and arm and a leg.
There is tons to go wrong with these cars.
I bought a 2003 545i with 70k miles and fsh in very good shape. It cost me the purchase price again in maintenance over two years and still wasn’t right when I got rid.
They are very hard to sell so you can bid any seller in the balls.
There will always be people who have said they have got work done for pennies but imo they have been lucky in knowing someone who knows the cars or been very good with research and gone out of their way to get stuff done at very best prices.
My experience is that unless you have hours and hours to spend on researching people to do work it will cost you and arm and a leg.
There is tons to go wrong with these cars.
I bought a 2003 545i with 70k miles and fsh in very good shape. It cost me the purchase price again in maintenance over two years and still wasn’t right when I got rid.
They are very hard to sell so you can bid any seller in the balls.
Got a facelift 2005 e65, so just before the road tax went up.
Valve stem seals needed doing which I did myself using the aforementioned tool. Did the timing cover gaskets at the same time.
Had the car 5 years and overall i’m pleased with it. As with most older cars, if you can do routine maintenance yourself and learn to live with minor faults then it can work out.
Fuel consumption is pretty good considering what it is, mid to high 20’s on a motorway should be expected.
Valve stem seals needed doing which I did myself using the aforementioned tool. Did the timing cover gaskets at the same time.
Had the car 5 years and overall i’m pleased with it. As with most older cars, if you can do routine maintenance yourself and learn to live with minor faults then it can work out.
Fuel consumption is pretty good considering what it is, mid to high 20’s on a motorway should be expected.
I ran a 2005 650 from 2011 on 38k miles to Jan this year on 201k miles. Absolutely superb car, never let me down, valve stem seals done at 150k miles. A couple of brake pipes, oil level sensor and a brake caliper were the only non consumables from memory.
More importantly on the day I sold it;
Everything worked.
No squeaks or rattles.
Used no oil
Key points;
Still felt like it had all of 368 BHP. Loved the way it accellerated up to the limiter and was rock solid once it got there.
interior was pretty much as new with no wear on the seat bolsters.
Premium tyres were a must, and the traction control still kicked in when it shifted up to second leaving toll booths.
Even on 200k miles it felt fast and special. Always looked back at it once I left it.
Absolutely wonderful machine and stunning value.
More importantly on the day I sold it;
Everything worked.
No squeaks or rattles.
Used no oil
Key points;
Still felt like it had all of 368 BHP. Loved the way it accellerated up to the limiter and was rock solid once it got there.
interior was pretty much as new with no wear on the seat bolsters.
Premium tyres were a must, and the traction control still kicked in when it shifted up to second leaving toll booths.
Even on 200k miles it felt fast and special. Always looked back at it once I left it.
Absolutely wonderful machine and stunning value.
Touring442 said:
My mate's 2003 E39 540i is ULEZ exempt.
Any big old BMW will throw up large bills, it goes with the territory and the E38 is no different. They're 20 years old of course.
Any big old BMW will throw up large bills, it goes with the territory and the E38 is no different. They're 20 years old of course.
Petrol facelift E39s are all exempt bar the M5 but E39 540is are now more expensive or on par with E60s - having had 3 E39s I fancy a change. I am of course well aware that old BMWs are expensive to run having had my fair share including E38s and E39s but the difference is the issues that E38s and E39s throw up are pretty manageable and can be DIY'd. Aside from the timing chain guide issue on late M62s they also don't suffer from terminal expensive engine issues. E60s, E65s and NXX engines are a new ballgame for me hence the questions.
MikeM6 said:
Go in eyes open and budget for the big jobs (or check they are already done) and you should be ok.
Go in expecting a perfect car for peanuts and you won't!
Of course, this goes without saying - but half of going in with my eyes open is knowing what the big jobs are and how likely they are to actually come upGo in expecting a perfect car for peanuts and you won't!
CousinDupree said:
Do you know for sure that the NOx emissoins for an E38 are too high?
Lots of pre 2003 cars / motorbikes can and have been exempted from the ULEZ charge. You need the NOx from the V5, EU CoC or manufacturer. Send that to tfl and they will exempt it.
I have checked the NOX numbers, the 750i strangely is the only one that has low enough NOX numbers but still comes up as chargeable - I'd imagine I would be able to apply to get it exempt but finding a 750i these days in decent condition in my budget and running it would be an issue unfortunately.Lots of pre 2003 cars / motorbikes can and have been exempted from the ULEZ charge. You need the NOx from the V5, EU CoC or manufacturer. Send that to tfl and they will exempt it.
StuntmanMike said:
I bought an old 550.
I know all the issues and bought it anyway.
I absolutely love it, these engines have issues but if you can fix them yourself it helps.
They ( in the e60 at least ) have some much crap you have to remove to get at anything You will incur large labour bills before you start.
It’s a shift to get at the rocker cover gaskets.
The engine is improved over its 4.4 predecessor but still has largely the same issues.
Water pipe through the valley.
This is improved on the 4.8 but could still be an issue, this is a job I would do myself.
Oil leaks.
Yeah, but it’s a BMW, while I love mine I don’t rate them in the put together stakes, the Alternator bracket gasket seems to be a ball ache and is mentioned often.
Valve stem seals.
If you want to do them yourself it’s pretty straight forward, again the time stripping all the st off the engine takes the time.
Also the is a tool now invented in the US that allows you to change them without removing the heads.
Mine does around 23 mpg and sounds/goes epic.
Timing chain cover is another oil leak, but if you are doing any of the above tackle it while you’re there.
The CCV is at the top of the engine and easy to get to.
That’s it really, mine has had valve seals and timing chain replaced by the previous owner under warranty.
I know all the issues and bought it anyway.
I absolutely love it, these engines have issues but if you can fix them yourself it helps.
They ( in the e60 at least ) have some much crap you have to remove to get at anything You will incur large labour bills before you start.
It’s a shift to get at the rocker cover gaskets.
The engine is improved over its 4.4 predecessor but still has largely the same issues.
Water pipe through the valley.
This is improved on the 4.8 but could still be an issue, this is a job I would do myself.
Oil leaks.
Yeah, but it’s a BMW, while I love mine I don’t rate them in the put together stakes, the Alternator bracket gasket seems to be a ball ache and is mentioned often.
Valve stem seals.
If you want to do them yourself it’s pretty straight forward, again the time stripping all the s
t off the engine takes the time.Also the is a tool now invented in the US that allows you to change them without removing the heads.
Mine does around 23 mpg and sounds/goes epic.
Timing chain cover is another oil leak, but if you are doing any of the above tackle it while you’re there.
The CCV is at the top of the engine and easy to get to.
That’s it really, mine has had valve seals and timing chain replaced by the previous owner under warranty.
trickywoo said:
They are that bad. Unless you only own it for five minutes or you get lucky it will cost you big bucks.
There will always be people who have said they have got work done for pennies but imo they have been lucky in knowing someone who knows the cars or been very good with research and gone out of their way to get stuff done at very best prices.
My experience is that unless you have hours and hours to spend on researching people to do work it will cost you and arm and a leg.
There is tons to go wrong with these cars.
I bought a 2003 545i with 70k miles and fsh in very good shape. It cost me the purchase price again in maintenance over two years and still wasn’t right when I got rid.
They are very hard to sell so you can bid any seller in the balls.
Thanks for these posts, exactly the sort of stuff I'm after. I'm semi-competent with DIY stuff but the valley coolant pipe and stem seals seem past my DIY ability. I've never had to pay someone to fix stuff for me before - not sure how comfortable I feel buying something which I can't DIY a major known issue onThere will always be people who have said they have got work done for pennies but imo they have been lucky in knowing someone who knows the cars or been very good with research and gone out of their way to get stuff done at very best prices.
My experience is that unless you have hours and hours to spend on researching people to do work it will cost you and arm and a leg.
There is tons to go wrong with these cars.
I bought a 2003 545i with 70k miles and fsh in very good shape. It cost me the purchase price again in maintenance over two years and still wasn’t right when I got rid.
They are very hard to sell so you can bid any seller in the balls.
eliot said:
Got a facelift 2005 e65, so just before the road tax went up.
Valve stem seals needed doing which I did myself using the aforementioned tool. Did the timing cover gaskets at the same time.
Had the car 5 years and overall i’m pleased with it. As with most older cars, if you can do routine maintenance yourself and learn to live with minor faults then it can work out.
Fuel consumption is pretty good considering what it is, mid to high 20’s on a motorway should be expected.
Valve stem seals needed doing which I did myself using the aforementioned tool. Did the timing cover gaskets at the same time.
Had the car 5 years and overall i’m pleased with it. As with most older cars, if you can do routine maintenance yourself and learn to live with minor faults then it can work out.
Fuel consumption is pretty good considering what it is, mid to high 20’s on a motorway should be expected.
gf15 said:
I ran a 2005 650 from 2011 on 38k miles to Jan this year on 201k miles. Absolutely superb car, never let me down, valve stem seals done at 150k miles. A couple of brake pipes, oil level sensor and a brake caliper were the only non consumables from memory.
More importantly on the day I sold it;
Everything worked.
No squeaks or rattles.
Used no oil
Key points;
Still felt like it had all of 368 BHP. Loved the way it accellerated up to the limiter and was rock solid once it got there.
interior was pretty much as new with no wear on the seat bolsters.
Premium tyres were a must, and the traction control still kicked in when it shifted up to second leaving toll booths.
Even on 200k miles it felt fast and special. Always looked back at it once I left it.
Absolutely wonderful machine and stunning value.
Reassuring! Seems to be a mixed bag then. I would be tempted by one thats had the major stuff done - N62s seem less prone to random misfires and running issues compared to N52/N53s from what I can see?More importantly on the day I sold it;
Everything worked.
No squeaks or rattles.
Used no oil
Key points;
Still felt like it had all of 368 BHP. Loved the way it accellerated up to the limiter and was rock solid once it got there.
interior was pretty much as new with no wear on the seat bolsters.
Premium tyres were a must, and the traction control still kicked in when it shifted up to second leaving toll booths.
Even on 200k miles it felt fast and special. Always looked back at it once I left it.
Absolutely wonderful machine and stunning value.
g3org3y said:
gf15 said:
Ivalve stem seals done at 150k miles.
If this is done once, is that it or may it need doing again?I think they're good value if you're prepared to tackle all the big jobs at once and then it's tip top.
Gooly said:
MikeM6 said:
Go in eyes open and budget for the big jobs (or check they are already done) and you should be ok.
Go in expecting a perfect car for peanuts and you won't!
Of course, this goes without saying - but half of going in with my eyes open is knowing what the big jobs are and how likely they are to actually come upGo in expecting a perfect car for peanuts and you won't!
If you get a lower mileages one (under 60k miles) with
full service history, the extended warranty is a viable option to help.
I’ve got an E70 2011 X5 50i SE with the N62 engine, although mine is now technically the N62a, due to it lunching itself a few years ago and requiring a substantial engine rebuild. Fortunately I’d purchased the car through the AUC system and had extended the warranty, as I have every year for the last 6 years of ownership. The engine rebuild cost the warranty people a gnat’s testicle under £20,000
So I have a car with 61k on the clock but only 22000 odd miles on the engine. After the rebuild oil consumption and the engine’s running temperature were substantially reduced. It’s a well documented issue in the US (where there are obviously loads more petrol powered E70s) but to my knowledge mine is the only one in the UK to have had an engine rebuild.
Not sure it helps you but thought it might at least highlight how expensive it can be if it goes badly wrong. Obviously the bill from an indie could be much less since my rebuild was main dealer prices and labour rates.
So I have a car with 61k on the clock but only 22000 odd miles on the engine. After the rebuild oil consumption and the engine’s running temperature were substantially reduced. It’s a well documented issue in the US (where there are obviously loads more petrol powered E70s) but to my knowledge mine is the only one in the UK to have had an engine rebuild.
Not sure it helps you but thought it might at least highlight how expensive it can be if it goes badly wrong. Obviously the bill from an indie could be much less since my rebuild was main dealer prices and labour rates.
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