BMW e91 lights flickering

[osdecar]

Hi all,

I have just bought a BMW 2007 e91 and all lights flicker.

This happens every time in all the lights at the same time, and regardless of throttle load, or engine running/not running


You can see it in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExYcFkduA5g



Also, I've noticed, it starts when I switch the ignition ON, and stops when I switch the ignition OFF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1EOh4g5B_Q




I think it might be the FRM module, but don't know how to diagnose it before start removing it. I don't want to go throw all the trouble of disassembling it, and send the FRM to repair just to discover I still have the problem.

[osdecar]

no one??

I checked yesterday using my OBD reader, and when I tried to connect to the FRM2 only showed this message:

"SW - V5.6
Please Send the Data to Customer Service!
SS83 08 03"

Normally it can either communicate with the module and read fault codes, or can't communicate and gives you a message "can't communicate". It's the first time I've seen this message.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Luckyone]

osdecar said:

no one??

I checked yesterday using my OBD reader, and when I tried to connect to the FRM2 only showed this message:

"SW - V5.6
Please Send the Data to Customer Service!
SS83 08 03"

Normally it can either communicate with the module and read fault codes, or can't communicate and gives you a message "can't communicate". It's the first time I've seen this message.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Generic fault code readers do sometimes come up with that message. From memory my C110 did, it needed a software update.

For full diagnostics you really need something like INPA I struggled with the C110 for a few years then got INPA from https://www.cable-shack.co.uk/
I wished I had it from the start, its so much better & there are loads of other things you can do / code with the other packs you get too.

The guy who sells it (Jimmy) is very knowledgeable and very helpful too.

[osdecar]

Hi all,

I have followed your advice and I have purchased a K+Dcan cable. I have installed INPA and run a few error reads to see what might be happening.


1st thing to notice is that in my INPA appear 2 different lines for 2 different FRM, I can only communicate with one of the 2.

-Footwell Module Driver FRM_87 >> NO COMMUNICATION
-Footwell Module Driver II FRM_70 >> COMMUNICATION OK

Once I enter in FRM_70, if I read the "status button" seems like all the buttons are working correctly.

When I read the error memory, the following errors are stored:

FRM Error Memory said:

E R R O R M E M O R Y
---------------------------------------
Date: 02.08.2020 18:54:53
ECU: FRM_70
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: FRM_70

---

RESULT: 14 error in error memory !

---

A8C3 Break-Force-Display links, E92/E93 oder US: 2.Bremslicht links defekt, E84: Schlusslicht links defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 243680 km
Batteriespannung 14.26 Volt
Betriebsstunden 2.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 C3 24 01 76 FC CA 01

---

A8BC Schlusslicht rechts 2, R56: Seitenmarkierungsleuchte rechts vorne, links hinten defekt, E84: Schlusslicht/Bremslicht rec
Error counter: 4
Mileage 251856 km
Batteriespannung 14.05 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 BC 24 04 7A FA C7 00

---

A8BB Schlusslicht links 2, R56: Seitenmarkierungsleuchte links vorne, rechts hinten defekt, E84: Schlusslicht/Bremslicht links
Error counter: 1
Mileage 243680 km
Batteriespannung 14.26 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan vorhanden und bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 BB 64 01 76 FC CA 00

---

9CB2 LWR-Poti defekt
Error counter: 123
Mileage 243112 km
Batteriespannung 12.56 Volt
Sensorspannung 0.00 Volt
Signal oder Wert unterhalb Schwelle
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: 9C B2 22 7B 76 B5 B2 00

---

9CBA Kommunikation mit LIN-Bedienteil gestoert
Error counter: 1
Mileage 236552 km
Batteriespannung 14.05 Volt
Sensorspannung 0.00 Volt
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: 9C BA 24 01 73 81 C7 00

---

A8C2 Rueckfahrlicht rechts defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 229024 km
Batteriespannung 12.07 Volt
Betriebsstunden 106.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 C2 24 01 6F D4 AB 35

---

A8C1 Rueckfahrlicht links defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 229024 km
Batteriespannung 14.12 Volt
Betriebsstunden 106.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 C1 24 01 6F D4 C8 35

---

A8AC Begrenzungslicht links defekt
Error counter: 2
Mileage 228904 km
Batteriespannung 14.12 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen Error code: A8 AC 24 02 6F C5 C8 00

---

A8BF Nebelschlusslicht, US: Break-Force-Display links defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 226848 km
Batteriespannung 11.72 Volt
Betriebsstunden 2.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 BF 24 01 6E C4 A6 01

---

A8BA Schlusslicht rechts 1 defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 226848 km
Batteriespannung 11.72 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 BA 24 01 6E C4 A6 00

---

A8B2 Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger links hinten defekt
Error counter: 2
Mileage 243688 km
Batteriespannung 14.26 Volt
Betriebsstunden 116.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 B2 24 02 76 FD CA 3A

---

A8B1 Fahrtrichtungsanzeiger rechts vorne defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 226848 km
Batteriespannung 11.72 Volt
Betriebsstunden 130.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 B1 24 01 6E C4 A6 41

---

A8AB Abblendlicht rechts defekt
Error counter: 1
Mileage 225216 km
Batteriespannung 14.05 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 AB 24 01 6D F8 C7 00

---

A8AA Abblendlicht links defekt
Error counter: 2
Mileage 249752 km
Batteriespannung 12.92 Volt
Betriebsstunden 0.00 h
kein Signal oder Wert
Testbedingungen erfüllt
Fehler momentan nicht vorhanden, aber bereits gespeichert
Fehler würde kein Aufleuchten einer Warnlampe verursachen
Error code: A8 AA 24 02 79 F3 B7 00

=======================================================

All errors seem just bulbs gone, except for the one called:

9CB2 - LWR-Poti defekt


and the one called:

9CBA Kommunikation mit LIN-Bedienteil goestoert



Also I've noticed some of these readings are showing a low voltage on the battery. I have checked my battery and it seems OK at the moment, showing a consistent voltage between 14.3 to 14.5V


If I run a general error memory on the whole car, the following list of error appears:

General Error Memory said:

E R R O R M E M O R Y
-----------------------
Date: 02.08.2020 19:09:29
Model: E89X
Scope: all control module
JobStatus: OKAY
Quantity: 17

---

ADR Gen. name JobStatus
92 VIRTSG92 ERROR_ECU_SERVICE_NOT_SUPPORTED

---

ADR Gen. name JobStatus Number of errors
Error code Kind of error

00 JBBF OKAY 1 Error stored
A 6CD 28
01 MRS OKAY 1 Error stored
C944 20
12 DME/DDE OKAY 2 Error stored
4222 24
4262 24
17 EKP OKAY No Error stored
29 DSC OKAY 2 Error stored
5DF4 20
5DE1 20
36 TEL/MULF OKAY No Error stored
40 CAS OKAY 1 Error stored
D904 20
40 DWA OKAY No Error stored
50 SINE OKAY 6 Error stored
9D16 01
9D44 11
9D44 11
9D44 11
9D44 11
9D44 11
56 FZD OKAY 1 Error stored
DE84 20
60 KOMBI OKAY 2 Error stored
9314 20
E104 20
62 MOSTGW OKAY 1 Error stored
E184 20
63 MASK/CCC OKAY No Error stored
64 PDC OKAY No Error stored
72 FRM OKAY 14 Error stored
A 8C3 24
A 8BC 24
A 8BB 64
9CB2 22
9CBA 24
A 8C2 24
A 8C1 24
A 8AC 24
A 8BF 24
A 8BA 24
A 8B2 24
A 8B1 24
A 8AB 24
A 8AA 24
78 KLIMA OKAY 1 Error stored
E704 20

===========================================================

Does this make any sense to you guys??


Maybe is a bad earth connection to the FRM??? how can I check this??

Edited by osdecar on Tuesday 4th August 13:39

[thatdude]

You're going to need a wiring diagram likely, and some testing tools - a multimeter at the least, and perhaps some special adapters to back-probe connectors.

I'm assuming CANBUS is involved too, so you might need to have a read on how to diagnose issues there.

It might be better to hunt down a diagnostician who has all the tools and can really go at it. It does seem like a bad earth (by the way, have you checked the battery?). Have you at the least inspected the electrical connector, tracing that back to see if there are any obvious issues at other connectors?

You're right to not send it away to pay of an expensive repair when it could be something as simple as a gungy corroded wire

The thing with code readers is they show is that a particular thing has a fault, but it's up to us to go further and work out if it is that thing that is genuinely faulty, or something feeding into it that is faulty.

[Collectingbrass]

There are ECU modules mounted in the footwells that control the lights. If these get wet you'll get all sorts of symptoms. Look for an ECU specialist.

[osdecar]

Hi all,

I bump the post again after few more investigation/findings.

After what I found using the scan tool, I decided to start checking the voltage at different points using a multimeter. I started from the battery and went all the way to the lights.


-1st step, battery: Voltage at the battery is constantly 12.5V with engine OFF, and 14.5V with engine running.

Then with a wiring diagram, I started following the cables around the car. All following checks were done with engine OFF, as it doesn't make any difference to the problem.

-All the power cables coming off the battery read constant 12.5V.

-Followed this cables to the Junction box, and all 4 fuses related with FRM read constant 12.5V.

Then I disassembled the FRM, and tested the voltage at the connector's pins, and still read constant 12.5V.

-In the last step, I read the voltage at the lamps, and then it fluctuates between 12.5V to 6V. I measure from the lamp connector pins, and could check the ground pin at the lamps connector is fine, but the current coming from the live cable (fed by the FRM) is the one that changes.

-I also checked other lamps in the car which are not connected to the FRM (glove box and bootlid, for some reason they go straight from the Junction box to the lamps) and these two WORK FINE.

-I checked the wiring diagram, and all the lights that are flickering are, in some way fed by the FRM module.



In my mind, with all this information, I am pretty sure the problem is the FRM. But I don't know how to check if any of the other modules connected to the FRM might be causing this issue, rather than the FRM itself. But I really doubt it.


So, final question, what is the best option in this case? Try to fix the FRM? Replace it and code the new one?

If I buy another one, second hand, will it work without encoding?? I think I have seen some messages in the forum of people explaining they didn't encode their's and they're fine.

[martin-tef11]

Just for info, I had flickering lights on my E91, I took my FRM apart and found corrosion between some contacts on the PCB cleaned these up with Lemsolv and a toothbrush..... fixed! Worth a try I feel.