BMW 540i 6 Touring (HK32-Code) thoughts!
Discussion
A friend of a friend is currently selling an E34 540i 6 Touring (HK32-Code) which I have the option to buy.
We could do with a larger car for weekend/holiday trips for me and the ms to go to the lakes with the dogs in, currently I have a fairly tidy E46 330ci and she has a Fiesta, both of which would likely stay. The new E39, a V70, even a 195 Alfa sportwagon would likely make more sense, but there is also a draw to the older/rarer/v8 option.
The ebay ad looks good and is a car I would be, but having see it and a video walk around it is a significant bit tattier and there is a lot more niggles with it than the add lets on.
- Reasonable amount of rust, verdict is out on the cills as you cant see much with the covers on. They have been done apparently by the previous owner but no proof or records and there is certainly some notable rust on the front passenger edge where the trim is loose.
- Bodywork generally is tatty, door bottoms are going quite crusty, and by all account a bit of a pita to sort including likely needing now door bottom trims, of which spares have dried up, i can find two of the four for £60-70 each. Certainly the RHS looks to have some non-factory paint which now has major peal on the rear but also failing on the trim and front wind so would need a whole-side respray to look nice. Plus a dent in the bonnet which has broken the paint from where the top mount let go on him a fortnight ago! (no fixed to good std, with B4 stuts)
- It's got a significant PAS leak coming from above the steering box, might just be pipework and unions (available?), might be better than a self leveling suspension leak, but it is also seriously vague on the steering to the point of not being enjoyable to drive, which makes judging the rest harder. By all accounts parts for the boxes are rare so your on finding a good used one!
- It has the 'lamp warning errors' which appear common due to LKM/CCM/Tailgate wiring or a mix of the above, either way a huge list comes up on key on, and then brake light when you brake, which you can't clear off! All lights work, but the CCM bongs and lit up error strip would be too annoying to live with long!
- Engine is fairly wet underneath, presumably rocker cover, said specialist appears to be mainly by name rather than experience from other comments! Radiator is bulging, which has pushed the fan cowl into the fan and broken it, fan cowl now missing. Which is minor but a job of work. Engine cover cracked and the plastic trim around rear seat belt holders is missing so foam hanging out a bit, again super minor, but parts are rare.
- Radio also failed on him last week, it now has a different model in which doesn't talk to the cd changer etc properly, or radio (less smoke) included in sale.
I don't know what the PH experts panels thoughts on that lot are!
He is asking £7500 but I've suggested more like £5500. Hard to price even a reasonably tidy option, it is a lot more of a 'project' than originally made out, and I haven't even bought it yet! So of that funny price where its nether cheap, nor expensive, the other half wants to spent the money on our house restoration!
Daniel
We could do with a larger car for weekend/holiday trips for me and the ms to go to the lakes with the dogs in, currently I have a fairly tidy E46 330ci and she has a Fiesta, both of which would likely stay. The new E39, a V70, even a 195 Alfa sportwagon would likely make more sense, but there is also a draw to the older/rarer/v8 option.
The ebay ad looks good and is a car I would be, but having see it and a video walk around it is a significant bit tattier and there is a lot more niggles with it than the add lets on.
- Reasonable amount of rust, verdict is out on the cills as you cant see much with the covers on. They have been done apparently by the previous owner but no proof or records and there is certainly some notable rust on the front passenger edge where the trim is loose.
- Bodywork generally is tatty, door bottoms are going quite crusty, and by all account a bit of a pita to sort including likely needing now door bottom trims, of which spares have dried up, i can find two of the four for £60-70 each. Certainly the RHS looks to have some non-factory paint which now has major peal on the rear but also failing on the trim and front wind so would need a whole-side respray to look nice. Plus a dent in the bonnet which has broken the paint from where the top mount let go on him a fortnight ago! (no fixed to good std, with B4 stuts)
- It's got a significant PAS leak coming from above the steering box, might just be pipework and unions (available?), might be better than a self leveling suspension leak, but it is also seriously vague on the steering to the point of not being enjoyable to drive, which makes judging the rest harder. By all accounts parts for the boxes are rare so your on finding a good used one!
- It has the 'lamp warning errors' which appear common due to LKM/CCM/Tailgate wiring or a mix of the above, either way a huge list comes up on key on, and then brake light when you brake, which you can't clear off! All lights work, but the CCM bongs and lit up error strip would be too annoying to live with long!
- Engine is fairly wet underneath, presumably rocker cover, said specialist appears to be mainly by name rather than experience from other comments! Radiator is bulging, which has pushed the fan cowl into the fan and broken it, fan cowl now missing. Which is minor but a job of work. Engine cover cracked and the plastic trim around rear seat belt holders is missing so foam hanging out a bit, again super minor, but parts are rare.
- Radio also failed on him last week, it now has a different model in which doesn't talk to the cd changer etc properly, or radio (less smoke) included in sale.
I don't know what the PH experts panels thoughts on that lot are!
He is asking £7500 but I've suggested more like £5500. Hard to price even a reasonably tidy option, it is a lot more of a 'project' than originally made out, and I haven't even bought it yet! So of that funny price where its nether cheap, nor expensive, the other half wants to spent the money on our house restoration!
Daniel
I know that these are rare cars now, especially in manual form, but i wouldn't pay £7500 for one that looks rough everywhere. You can get a 2007 550i for £500 more.
You really need to inspect the sills, as even 10 years ago it was a massive achilles heel of the E34.
If you want a project car, go for it by all means, but not for that money. To me it sounds like it's not been cared for recently. The more you fix. the more you will find that needs fixing.
You really need to inspect the sills, as even 10 years ago it was a massive achilles heel of the E34.
If you want a project car, go for it by all means, but not for that money. To me it sounds like it's not been cared for recently. The more you fix. the more you will find that needs fixing.
^^^
This; and by the sounds of it, even £5500 is far too high.
If you want some decent input in to this; ask on the BMW 5 forums too, the E34 section is very well membered: http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/
For £7500; I'd be considering an immaculate E39 touring Jap import or like said, a decent E61 550i
This; and by the sounds of it, even £5500 is far too high.
If you want some decent input in to this; ask on the BMW 5 forums too, the E34 section is very well membered: http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/
For £7500; I'd be considering an immaculate E39 touring Jap import or like said, a decent E61 550i
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
Obviously you can get E34s for a lot less, ditto E39s and other later cars. It's certainly not bangernomics motoring or even an inexpensive nice car. It's expensive and tired.
It's selling point obviously if any, is the rare combination of spec; a manual V8 touring. Which I believe there where only around 60 made and only 10 left in the road. Plenty of tourings, a reasonable number of the V8s, but very few of the manual box either in this car or any other.
However, clearly being rare alone does not make it automatically desirable or likely to appreciate and time soon!
The seller is obviously a keen enthusiast, has the period dealer guide etc and it's always had good fuel and fluids etc, but also not overly mechanically minded and I think struggling to manage his garage and the older car as well as a young family.
Daniel
Obviously you can get E34s for a lot less, ditto E39s and other later cars. It's certainly not bangernomics motoring or even an inexpensive nice car. It's expensive and tired.
It's selling point obviously if any, is the rare combination of spec; a manual V8 touring. Which I believe there where only around 60 made and only 10 left in the road. Plenty of tourings, a reasonable number of the V8s, but very few of the manual box either in this car or any other.
However, clearly being rare alone does not make it automatically desirable or likely to appreciate and time soon!
The seller is obviously a keen enthusiast, has the period dealer guide etc and it's always had good fuel and fluids etc, but also not overly mechanically minded and I think struggling to manage his garage and the older car as well as a young family.
Daniel
If the body were good and the mechanicals were iffy I'd say do it. but the prospect of rust wouldn't make me feel at ease. Moreso when you can get the following for similar money
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006180...
To give you an idea of the rust issues these cars could face, this topic is from 2008, and that's some hefty rust.
https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/20920-rust-issues/
I really love an E34. A nice 525i touring manual with the big sunroof would be ideal.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006180...
To give you an idea of the rust issues these cars could face, this topic is from 2008, and that's some hefty rust.
https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/20920-rust-issues/
I really love an E34. A nice 525i touring manual with the big sunroof would be ideal.
JakeT said:
If the body were good and the mechanicals were iffy I'd say do it. but the prospect of rust wouldn't make me feel at ease. Moreso when you can get the following for similar money
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006180...
But that's not a manual, or as appealing.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006180...
Although it'd have to be e34 M5T over an e61 M5T for me.
JakeT said:
If the body were good and the mechanicals were iffy I'd say do it. but the prospect of rust wouldn't make me feel at ease.
Mind you, given the lack of donors for both the M60 engine and the V8 varient of of the Getrag 6sp manual, and by all accounts even the steering box which is I think on all models being unavailable. Maybe the body is the the easy bit! Apparently when it needed it clutch doing, he had the plead with LUK to bring the flywheel out out of obsolescence to make a short run batch of ten so he could buy one!These cars rust, they are the perfect age to have early poor durability water based paints, only average amount of design in avoiding rust, and being 25years old.
But again, I'm no more worried about the rusty door bottoms, than the unobtainable plastic trim that clips on over the door bottom.
And then their is the electrical issues with the warning messages, and the little computer and clock unit having its feed nicked from an ignition feed, apprently due to the removed phone kit, but could be all manor else!
It's three way combination of, the higher initial purchase cost, the amount more work than I really want to be doing, and the limited availability of almost any parts.
Daniel
mmm-five said:
But that's not a manual, or as appealing.
Although it'd have to be e34 M5T over an e61 M5T for me.
You're absolutely right. But in terms of 'Around £7,500 BMW 5 series V8 powered Estate' that's what I was getting at. I know newer isn't always better, but over a rusty, leaky E34? It'd be close.Although it'd have to be e34 M5T over an e61 M5T for me.
Also, Daniel. If you haven't already, Alex Kersten of Car Throttle has an E34. His is a 525i touring, and it's given him some head scratching moments over his ownership period. Take a watch of their videos.
It's certainly true the £7500 gets you a lot of car if you look at alternatives, it's three times what I paid for the E46 330ci in manual, for instance, in reasonable condition.
Any other spec E34 is a lot less. And he is obviously struggling to sell at this price, which suggests it isn't worth it to many!
I had seen car throttle has a few E34 posts and have read some if not all maybe, I'll have another look.
The eBay classified listing has run out, but ad for the car in question was also reposted here:
https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/214768/540it-...
And the youtube walkaround is here:
https://youtu.be/hvJ77BVqJMY
Daniel
Any other spec E34 is a lot less. And he is obviously struggling to sell at this price, which suggests it isn't worth it to many!
I had seen car throttle has a few E34 posts and have read some if not all maybe, I'll have another look.
The eBay classified listing has run out, but ad for the car in question was also reposted here:
https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/214768/540it-...
And the youtube walkaround is here:
https://youtu.be/hvJ77BVqJMY
Daniel
Edited by dhutch on Tuesday 18th August 09:54
On the other hand, this one sold at auction and made £6500. Nearly half the miles, appears almost concourse bar the driver seat, but also haven't seen it in person.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-bmw-e34-5...
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-bmw-e34-5...
The Collecting cars one was on AT for a long time before it went over to CC, too.
The ad doesn't read badly, and from looking at it, it's in better condition than I first thought. The headlining is peeling near the front screen, and there's no word on whether the A/C works, and as you said the SLS isn't fully fluid tight. I think the system can be looped off like the E38, but the pump might be different to a non SLS car?
Seller also states that the sills have been repaired before. Lots of history too, which is good, but doesn't matter hugely if current condition is poor. The GRRC Member stuff is very cool though.
Again, I'm not sure I'd pay £7,500 for it. If the leaking SLS was sorted, and the A/C worked, and the sill covers came off and they were minty, I might. Otherwise, hard pass at that price.
The ad doesn't read badly, and from looking at it, it's in better condition than I first thought. The headlining is peeling near the front screen, and there's no word on whether the A/C works, and as you said the SLS isn't fully fluid tight. I think the system can be looped off like the E38, but the pump might be different to a non SLS car?
Seller also states that the sills have been repaired before. Lots of history too, which is good, but doesn't matter hugely if current condition is poor. The GRRC Member stuff is very cool though.
Again, I'm not sure I'd pay £7,500 for it. If the leaking SLS was sorted, and the A/C worked, and the sill covers came off and they were minty, I might. Otherwise, hard pass at that price.
JakeT said:
The Collecting cars one was on AT for a long time before it went over to CC, too.
The ad doesn't read badly, and from looking at it, it's in better condition than I first thought. The headlining is peeling near the front screen, and there's no word on whether the A/C works, and as you said the SLS isn't fully fluid tight. I think the system can be looped off like the E38, but the pump might be different to a non SLS car?
Seller also states that the sills have been repaired before. Lots of history too, which is good, but doesn't matter hugely if current condition is poor. The GRRC Member stuff is very cool though.
Again, I'm not sure I'd pay £7,500 for it. If the leaking SLS was sorted, and the A/C worked, and the sill covers came off and they were minty, I might. Otherwise, hard pass at that price.
That's interesting, do you know what it was listed for on AT?The ad doesn't read badly, and from looking at it, it's in better condition than I first thought. The headlining is peeling near the front screen, and there's no word on whether the A/C works, and as you said the SLS isn't fully fluid tight. I think the system can be looped off like the E38, but the pump might be different to a non SLS car?
Seller also states that the sills have been repaired before. Lots of history too, which is good, but doesn't matter hugely if current condition is poor. The GRRC Member stuff is very cool though.
Again, I'm not sure I'd pay £7,500 for it. If the leaking SLS was sorted, and the A/C worked, and the sill covers came off and they were minty, I might. Otherwise, hard pass at that price.
The ad reads very well, and the photos look better than in real life, and for instance the 'super rare dealer' boot mat is a bit of rubber matting cut to shape with a stanley. Walk around is worth a watch/listen if you have time time.
Hopefully the cills have been done, and are still in good shape, but you riding on the previous sellers word.
The 'SLS leak' appears to be from above the steering box, so likely actually steering based PAS loss.
As you say, the GRRC badges and the like are cool, ditto MOT certs, but the rest of the paperwork is fairly mixed.
It certainly isnt mint under the cill covers, but as said, very hard to really know what its like inside. Could just be a bit rusty and in need of underseal, but could also be a right mess.
I forgot to ask about the air conditioner in the midst of the rest of it.
Agreed £7500 is stonge, but then the question becomes, what is a fair price? Do I want it?
Daniel
I gave the video a watch. I see what you mean. From what I could see,
For £7500 I'd be buying the E61 550i I listed above. Is it less desirable? Yes. But you could throw another £5,000 down sorting out paint and bodywork issues. The whole offside needs painting, as does the bonnet and the front wing.
- Fan shroud is missing
- Shock top mount issue
- Paint is needing attention
- Diff looks wet
- Looks like there is some corrosion in and around the rear jacking points
For £7500 I'd be buying the E61 550i I listed above. Is it less desirable? Yes. But you could throw another £5,000 down sorting out paint and bodywork issues. The whole offside needs painting, as does the bonnet and the front wing.
It silver, but....
07 Plate 530i M Sport Touring 5dr Manual?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008152...
07 Plate 530i M Sport Touring 5dr Manual?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008152...
Touring442 said:
It's an absolute honey and clearly well maintained.
Oh wow, what a list! Didnt think to check online and get the list of 'fails' as well.Some fair gaps (busy with family, fair enough) but appear to have lead basically everything on the 'good points' list, tyre and brakes sort of fair enough, but also the flowed injector and reverting to a standard exhaust, currently held on with at least on cable tie.
Corroded cills, mentioned in Mid 2018 (current ownership I think) but then leave the list...?
Leaking rear shocks and sls valve, which as far as I know have not been addressed.
Perhaps it was not meant to me!
Daniel
JakeT said:
I also believe that this is a person that has, quite possibly, a books worth (wink) of knowledge on restoring these cars.
For the E61, it's less money, and has more paint on it. I'd be buying that sort of thing. Direct injection issues aside.
Yes, don't any details but Touring442 has replied to some of my other posts and clearly knows their stuff. For the E61, it's less money, and has more paint on it. I'd be buying that sort of thing. Direct injection issues aside.
I think the thing is, the car in the eBay advert is a car I would like to buy.
A reasonably tidy, cared for, largly rust free, V8 E34 which wants a glass in respray due to lacquer peal on an old repair.
Sadly car doesn't exist, and this one has a long list of issues, any one of which (bar maybe being totally rotten) would be resolvable but together add up to a lot of work and or cost.
Daniel
A reasonably tidy, cared for, largly rust free, V8 E34 which wants a glass in respray due to lacquer peal on an old repair.
Sadly car doesn't exist, and this one has a long list of issues, any one of which (bar maybe being totally rotten) would be resolvable but together add up to a lot of work and or cost.
Daniel
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