M140i/M240i plus Birds modifications - good M2 alternative?

[PeteinSQ]

As always I'm fantasising about my next car. Currently I'm leasing a nice but not very exciting 420i GC. Previously I had an M140i and I have to say that I really miss the performance.

Sadly I'm not made of money and although I do earn a pretty decent salary I don't know that I want to stretch to an M2 if I could get 9/10ths of the every day performance from an M140i or M240i modified by Birds.

When I had the M140i the main problem as far as I could tell was with the suspension which was just a bit pants on some of the substandard roads where I live but I've heard that the Birds suspension mods can do a lot to fix this issue.

I also imagine that an M140i/240i is going to generally be cheaper to maintain and service than an M2.

Am I being unrealistic here?

[Huskyman]

Different car I know but I fitted a B3 package to an E90 and the difference was night and day. Ring Birds and ask if they have a demonstrator available and test drive an M2 to make up your mind.

[nickfrog]

PeteinSQ said:

I also imagine that an M140i/240i is going to generally be cheaper to maintain and service than an M2.

The M2 will be a little thirstier and the consumables a bit more expensive but the delta is not huge. Insurance is the same as my old M135i, ie £300 or so.

Servicing costs seems to be almost the same, ie very cheap. The big service every 4 years is £600 but the small one in between is £250. In other words, it's around £200 a year, probably less when the car is over 4 years or going indy.

I looked at the modified M135i/M140i route but two things stopped me: I couldn't get a BMW warranty because of the mods and I felt that the money spent in mods would devalue quickly and even perhaps affect the residuals of the cars. As the M2 had all the bits I wanted as standard, I felt that the real world difference in overall cost wouldn't be that great despite the higher initial investment. Having said that, M2 prices seem to have gone up 5 to 10% since I got mine in March. They were sub £30k AUC then and they're not anymore so perhaps my rationale doesn't hold water anymore.

[PeteinSQ]

You can get a 2017 plate m140i for about £18/19k now plus £1500 for the Birds suspension. That's a big saving vs close to £30k for an M2.

Of course there are loads of other things that justify the extra £10k it's just I'm not sure I need them necessarily.

[DVandrews]

Huskyman said:

Different car I know but I fitted a B3 package to an E90 and the difference was night and day. Ring Birds and ask if they have a demonstrator available and test drive an M2 to make up your mind.

As above had the Birds B3 package and Quaife diff fitted to my E93 335i and the difference it made was phenomenal, it went from Tesco shopping trolley handling to a bit of a weapon, superb precise and controlled handling. Makes my new 440i with EDC seem like a barge.

[95JO]

I ran an M235i for 26 months, see my garage for a breakdown of costs there.

I've only had the M2 a month so far so I'm not well equipped to give my personal experiences yet. However, I did some homework and have some data so far...

M235i insurance - £1050
M2 insurance - £1180

M235i long-term mpg - 25.5mpg
M2 long-term mpg - 23.5mpg

M235i tax - £265
M2 tax - £475 (due to luxury car tax as it's post April 2017)

M235i servicing (independent) - Minor £180 - Major - £330
M2 servicing - N/A (will be substantially higher as I think I'll be sticking with BMW)

M235i tyres - x4 Michelin Pilot Sport 4's (standard sizes) = £400-£450 depending on deals at the time
M2 tyres - x4 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (standard sizes) = £700-£800 depending on deals at the time

M235i genuine BMW M Performance Parts - Splitter = £220 Sideskirts = £120 Diffuser = £300 Spoiler = £280
M2 genuine BMW M Performance Parts - Front Winglets = £550 Sideskirts = £500 Diffuser = £540 Spoiler = £280

I don't have the figures to hand but I recall the brake discs being considerably more expensive for the M2!

So yeah, ranging from slightly more costly (MPG, insurance) to reasonably more expensive (servicing, tax) to vastly more expensive (tyres, modifications)...

[PeteinSQ]

95JO said:

I ran an M235i for 26 months, see my garage for a breakdown of costs there.

I've only had the M2 a month so far so I'm not well equipped to give my personal experiences yet. However, I did some homework and have some data so far...

M235i insurance - £1050
M2 insurance - £1180

M235i long-term mpg - 25.5mpg
M2 long-term mpg - 23.5mpg

M235i tax - £265
M2 tax - £475 (due to luxury car tax as it's post April 2017)

M235i servicing (independent) - Minor £180 - Major - £330
M2 servicing - N/A (will be substantially higher as I think I'll be sticking with BMW)

M235i tyres - x4 Michelin Pilot Sport 4's (standard sizes) = £400-£450 depending on deals at the time
M2 tyres - x4 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (standard sizes) = £700-£800 depending on deals at the time

M235i genuine BMW M Performance Parts - Splitter = £220 Sideskirts = £120 Diffuser = £300 Spoiler = £280
M2 genuine BMW M Performance Parts - Front Winglets = £550 Sideskirts = £500 Diffuser = £540 Spoiler = £280

I don't have the figures to hand but I recall the brake discs being considerably more expensive for the M2!

So yeah, ranging from slightly more costly (MPG, insurance) to reasonably more expensive (servicing, tax) to vastly more expensive (tyres, modifications)...

thanks for posting this. Tyres are one of the most depressing things in the world to have to spend lots of money on. Someone I know has an RS6 and I just look at them and see a huge pile of money leaving their bank account when they all need replacing.

[Court_S]

I’ve had my M140i for 15 months now. It’s a really good car that offers decent performance for sensible running costs (£150 VED, 30mpg long term average etc). Its discrete, so doesn’t really attract much attention.

I can’t help stop hankering after an M car though, but I’m doing my best to stick with my car and appreciate it for what it is...

[pjv997]

PeteinSQ said:

You can get a 2017 plate m140i for about £18/19k now plus £1500 for the Birds suspension. That's a big saving vs close to £30k for an M2.

Of course there are loads of other things that justify the extra £10k it's just I'm not sure I need them necessarily.

You also need to factor in the M2 will be worth £X,000 more when you next change your car.

[PeteinSQ]

pjv997 said:

You also need to factor in the M2 will be worth £X,000 more when you next change your car.

True, although until I lost the plot and started to lease cars I tended to keep them until I've run them into the ground.

Do you reckon that that £8-10k price differential will always be there?

[95JO]

PeteinSQ said:

True, although until I lost the plot and started to lease cars I tended to keep them until I've run them into the ground.

Do you reckon that that £8-10k price differential will always be there?

Assuming the two cars you compare are the same age then yeah, I think so, maybe the differential will increase over time.

[nickfrog]

Not sure the M140i will be worth zero when the M2 is worth £8k or £10k . But the differential may erode quite slowly because the M2s depreciation should be better from £30k down, at least in % terms. It's actually possible that the depreciation in £ terms might actually be similar from that point.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 29th September 18:51

[nickfrog]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The M2 steering is only slightly less numb sadly... But for me it's not about being quicker (particularly on the road), it's about being a turn key warrantable solution that I don't believe would work out more expensive in the long run than a heavily modified M240i (which is a great car in its own right).

[95JO]

nickfrog said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The M2 steering is only slightly less numb sadly... But for me it's not about being quicker (particularly on the road), it's about being a turn key warrantable solution that I don't believe would work out more expensive in the long run than a heavily modified M240i (which is a great car in its own right).

This.

Also:

[320d is all you need]

PeteinSQ said:

As always I'm fantasising about my next car. Currently I'm leasing a nice but not very exciting 420i GC. Previously I had an M140i and I have to say that I really miss the performance.

Sadly I'm not made of money and although I do earn a pretty decent salary I don't know that I want to stretch to an M2 if I could get 9/10ths of the every day performance from an M140i or M240i modified by Birds.

When I had the M140i the main problem as far as I could tell was with the suspension which was just a bit pants on some of the substandard roads where I live but I've heard that the Birds suspension mods can do a lot to fix this issue.

I also imagine that an M140i/240i is going to generally be cheaper to maintain and service than an M2.

Am I being unrealistic here?

If you are not made of money, then Birds would be the last place I'd spend cash.

They have somehow gotten into the unique position of charging nearly triple the cost of a normal Bilstein B8/B12 damper kit for their "very special, super secret, super amazing" setup. I guess too many features by Autocar, PH and Chris Harris.

The cost to run a M140 or M240 v a M2 is irrelevant.
Given that they have

- Same brakes
- Many similar components underneath
- OG M2 has the same engine as the M135i (with a few changes)
- They are basically identical on fuel.

So the cost is virtually the same to run :-)

Only different would likely be , car insurance, and tyres (if the m2 has 19s v 18s on the "baby M".


To take a M135/140/235/240 to M2 level, you'll never get there, but you can get close.
You will need suspension (i'd go for H&R Monotube Coilovers if you want a sporty drive or Eibach Springs paired with Bilstein shocks if you want a slightly more comfortable ride)

You will need a differential (BMW M Performance one would get my vote).

You will need a few insert bushes (for rear diff, and rear subframe).

If you want a more sporty drive then I'd go for Camber top mounts (Millway make some high quality ones).

And if you want engine tuning then you can do this yourself with an app on your phone.

Certainly I would not be spending a penny with Birds

[PeteinSQ]

320d is all you need said:

If you are not made of money, then Birds would be the last place I'd spend cash.

They have somehow gotten into the unique position of charging nearly triple the cost of a normal Bilstein B8/B12 damper kit for their "very special, super secret, super amazing" setup. I guess too many features by Autocar, PH and Chris Harris.

The cost to run a M140 or M240 v a M2 is irrelevant.
Given that they have

- Same brakes
- Many similar components underneath
- OG M2 has the same engine as the M135i (with a few changes)
- They are basically identical on fuel.

So the cost is virtually the same to run :-)

Only different would likely be , car insurance, and tyres (if the m2 has 19s v 18s on the "baby M".


To take a M135/140/235/240 to M2 level, you'll never get there, but you can get close.
You will need suspension (i'd go for H&R Monotube Coilovers if you want a sporty drive or Eibach Springs paired with Bilstein shocks if you want a slightly more comfortable ride)

You will need a differential (BMW M Performance one would get my vote).

You will need a few insert bushes (for rear diff, and rear subframe).

If you want a more sporty drive then I'd go for Camber top mounts (Millway make some high quality ones).

And if you want engine tuning then you can do this yourself with an app on your phone.

Certainly I would not be spending a penny with Birds

Oh.

Well I didn't know any of that and I thank you for pointing this all out. Would you recommend seeking out a BMW specialist independent to make this happen?

[320d is all you need]

Hi Pete
I'd just buy the parts myself and then have a trusted garage fit them. All bolt in bits.

[95JO]

320d is all you need said:

Hi Pete
I'd just buy the parts myself and then have a trusted garage fit them. All bolt in bits.

Check our @drwperformance on Instagram, he does a lot of stuff of this ilk.

[Court_S]

Depending on where you are in the country, Williams Performance seem to be getting a pretty good rep.

The B12 kit can be lucked up from Autodoc for sensible cash if you’re not in a rush and can wait for the discounts. Mixing and matching would save a lot over Birds.