Buying a RHD BMW in another EU country

[RobM77]

I'm just idly wondering here, as I've got another 5 years at least out of my current 530d. I'm very aware though that the BMWs offered here in the UK are now sadly very limited, which got me thinking about my next car when the current one needs replacing.

In the UK, we can't buy a petrol 5 series other than the 4cyl 520i (I'm discounting the 530e, which is well over 2 tonnes), and if we want a 6cyl diesel (or one with enough power to tow a big trailer, which is what I do), it has to be four wheel drive - yuk. I've just been browsing www.bmw.de though and they've got the lot over there: 530d with rear drive, 540i, 550i etc etc, just like we used to have here. In France they have less choice, but still more than the UK. Does anyone know if it's possible to order a new RHD BMW in another country in one of these non-UK specs and then bring it home? Will that option cease after we finalise leaving the EU at the end of the year? The info I'm finding online is all quite old and pre-Brexit, and focuses on cost savings, which isn't my aim at all. Nevertheless, 15 years ago, it seems some dealers abroad would do this, you then register it temporarily in the other country, drive it home, then ring the DVLA, pay your VAT, and off you go.

[Jakg]

Ignoring the process of ordering one - do they actually make those combos in RHD?

I'd have a look at other RHD markets (i.e. Ireland, Malta, Australia) first.

[RobM77]

Jakg said:

Ignoring the process of ordering one - do they actually make those combos in RHD?

I'd have a look at other RHD markets (i.e. Ireland, Malta, Australia) first.

Good point! They make some of them, yes. In Aus they have a rear drive 530d and 530i. Ireland sadly is like the UK. Malta has a confusing website without a configurator, so I've no idea.

[ashenfie]

I think it's all the same till we are out. When we are out hopefully the exchange rate will go up as the uncertainty is over.

[QuartzDad]

RobM77 said:

Good point! They make some of them, yes. In Aus they have a rear drive 530d and 530i. Ireland sadly is like the UK. Malta has a confusing website without a configurator, so I've no idea.

Looks like Japan is the same as Oz: https://www.bmw.co.jp/ja/footer/english/all-models...

[RicksAlfas]

A chap on a Mercedes forum has done exactly this. He was cheesed off at the poor choice available here, so went to Belgium and specified the car he wanted and they will supply it in RHD.
https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/new-e-class-an...

[RobM77]

RicksAlfas said:

A chap on a Mercedes forum has done exactly this. He was cheesed off at the poor choice available here, so went to Belgium and specified the car he wanted and they will supply it in RHD.
https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/new-e-class-an...

Great, thanks. That's a coincidence - only a few days before I asked the question. I've saved the thread in my favourites for when I attempt this in the future.

If not a RHD/LHD issue, I wonder what the reasons are for limited model availability in some countries? The car is made out of the UK, so the extra overheads for us in the UK are minimal: salesman technical knowledge (already close to zero! No issue there!!), service staff training (surely already there for the older rear drive models anyway?), umm.. I'm struggling to think of anything else. The car is transported here just like any other would be.

[JakeT]

RobM77 said:

I wonder what the reasons are for limited model availability in some countries?

Some of it used to be technical, such as the E60 535i never came here because the turbos fouled the steering column, but I would imagine most of it is down to the importer. They control what spec comes here, in what cars.

Someone at BMW UK decided that big engine must mean xDrive nowadays, which is sad for some buyers. I noticed a few years ago Mercedes did no options for their cars, and BMW now only do 'tasty' engines in an M sport model, or even moreso, an Mwhatever model now. I'd like a RWD 340i SE touring, but they'll sell about 6, so I don't blame them for not offering them.

[RobM77]

JakeT said:

RobM77 said:

I wonder what the reasons are for limited model availability in some countries?

Some of it used to be technical, such as the E60 535i never came here because the turbos fouled the steering column, but I would imagine most of it is down to the importer. They control what spec comes here, in what cars.

Someone at BMW UK decided that big engine must mean xDrive nowadays, which is sad for some buyers. I noticed a few years ago Mercedes did no options for their cars, and BMW now only do 'tasty' engines in an M sport model, or even moreso, an Mwhatever model now. I'd like a RWD 340i SE touring, but they'll sell about 6, so I don't blame them for not offering them.

Just before that bit you quoted I said "If not a LHD/RHD issue" - i.e. we know these cars are available in RHD (e.g. Australia and Japan), so we can rule out technical reasons.

It therefore remains a mystery why BMW UK have made that decision. I could understand if we were Sweden or Norway because of snow and ice, but it's far snowier in Bavaria than here, so that argument doesn't hold sway. Or perhaps it's just demand - British people think they need 4WD and that's what they want. I'd be interested to know what the overhead would be to sell a handful of 540i models here compared with not selling any. A page or two in a brochure, five extra minutes in a sales briefing etc - or would they have to supply a demo car, which is obviously a very high cost....

It is a pity, yes. If I wanted 4WD then I'd just buy a Subaru: cheaper, more reliable, and no road rage problems. The reason I buy BMWs is to get nice rear drive handling.

[JakeT]

I think you're spot on with the consumer demand. xDrive sells cars. Audi built a really good 'brand' on the quattro badge, and as a result people bought into the AWD thing.

I'm sure lengthy discussions could be had about the cost of training dealers, service technicians, and even certification and fleet averages through WLTP and the like, but it all comes down to the profitability. BMW UK have decided that it's not going to earn them enough to have these models.

I think it's a bit of a crime that BMW can kill the manual, straight six, RWD 3 series, and still continue with the 2 series Zafira.

[RobM77]

JakeT said:

I think you're spot on with the consumer demand. xDrive sells cars. Audi built a really good 'brand' on the quattro badge, and as a result people bought into the AWD thing.

I'm sure lengthy discussions could be had about the cost of training dealers, service technicians, and even certification and fleet averages through WLTP and the like, but it all comes down to the profitability. BMW UK have decided that it's not going to earn them enough to have these models.

I think it's a bit of a crime that BMW can kill the manual, straight six, RWD 3 series, and still continue with the 2 series Zafira.

They're ripping the core of their brand apart. It would be a bit like Nike stopping manufacture of running shoes and clothing and just making fashion clothing. Initially their profits would soar, because the heady R&D costs for technical clothing would vanish, along with expensive athlete sponsorship deals; leaving just their design and product teams to produce simpler street clothes. After that initial saving though, their brand would start to fall apart. To be fair, BMW are retaining the true M cars, but that's only like Nike continuing to make track spikes (<0.01% of sales) but stopping road running shoes, which for most people provide the real connection between sport and their normal clothes. The thing most of us love about BMW is that you can buy a normal car for £30-£40k with sensible running costs that handles really well - i.e. a 320i/330i M Sport. M cars alone don't really boost BMW's image by much, any more than Ferraris boost Fiat's image or the NSX changed Honda's image.

[JakeT]

I could go into how much I don't like modern BMW for ages, but we needn't waste the time.


BMW now is a much more profitable company than they were when the E21 and E12 5 series were current, which makes everything written below pointless. They exist solely to make money, and they make more now than ever before.

What does make me sad, is that a regular BMW isn't as 'sweet' as they once were. An E30 318i wasn't a supercar, but drove brilliantly. Modern models seem to need the M Sport trim level in order to look at all reasonable, or drive in a more 'proper' manner.

All of the brand has seen this, seeing as the new M5 is AWD with a regular automatic gearbox, and the new M3 is the same, too. I won't buy a 1 series now, as it has lost it's unique feature for me, but such is life. I don't think BMW will be losing sleep over the likes of me not wanting new cars when I didn't buy new ones anyway.

[gizlaroc]

JakeT said:

I think you're spot on with the consumer demand. xDrive sells cars. Audi built a really good 'brand' on the quattro badge, and as a result people bought into the AWD thing.

I'm sure lengthy discussions could be had about the cost of training dealers, service technicians, and even certification and fleet averages through WLTP and the like, but it all comes down to the profitability. BMW UK have decided that it's not going to earn them enough to have these models.

I think it's a bit of a crime that BMW can kill the manual, straight six, RWD 3 series, and still continue with the 2 series Zafira.

BMW always outsold Audi when it came to AWD cars, which most people in the UK didn't realise as we didn't get them here for years.

It was a Marketing choice, BMW UK decided with the slogan "Ultimate Driving Machine." they felt they needed to drop the xi models. So we had a gap of what? 30 years without them. I guess the X5 and X3 sales made them realise they were missing sales to Audi for those that didn't want an SUV but wanted AWD over here.

Same with Mercedes over here too, they didn't have their awd cars either, but back again now.


I moved away from Mercedes as they had crap interior choices, only had the larger engine in AMG guise and had a stupid menu system for options. I wanted interior ambient lighting, €280 option in Europe, but £3200 in the UK as it came with Pano roof, large wheels and other stuff I really, really didn't want.
Oh, and if I had that Premium Plus pack I also had to go to an AMG pack as well, which was black interior only. No thanks.


BMW seem to be heading in the same way, but I think I am done with new cars anyway. I have got 10 years of Covid debt to pay off, well, I had 10 years, we are now Tier 4 again from today, so might be 20 years, or go and get a job in the public sector.

[gizlaroc]

JakeT said:

I could go into how much I don't like modern BMW for ages, but we needn't waste the time.


BMW now is a much more profitable company than they were when the E21 and E12 5 series were current, which makes everything written below pointless. They exist solely to make money, and they make more now than ever before.

What does make me sad, is that a regular BMW isn't as 'sweet' as they once were. An E30 318i wasn't a supercar, but drove brilliantly. Modern models seem to need the M Sport trim level in order to look at all reasonable, or drive in a more 'proper' manner.

All of the brand has seen this, seeing as the new M5 is AWD with a regular automatic gearbox, and the new M3 is the same, too. I won't buy a 1 series now, as it has lost it's unique feature for me, but such is life. I don't think BMW will be losing sleep over the likes of me not wanting new cars when I didn't buy new ones anyway.

I agree. The M2 is the only car in the range I would want to own.

I was really disappointed with the 540i Touring, and so thought the M340i would be a better bet, it was pretty much the same.


Not really an issue though as I bought a 5 year old 530d Touring, which is fine, it does what it needs to do, but it doesn't feel all that "BMW" anymore.


For me it seems the only way to try and make them fun to drive is ramp up the power, but then we have AWD and active dampers and all very, very planted and a bit dull 99% of the time.


I had an LCI 520d Touring before the 530d Touring, and mapped with only 230hp, that was a great car, it felt considerably lighter and more nimble than the 530d, which has 310hp, and just felt more like my older 5 series.

What I will say is this, although BMWs now feel a little dull compared to older cars, if you go and jump into a new A6, A4 or even Merc E Class, they take that dullness to a whole other level.

The E Class sort of makes sense, as it feels like that is what it is trying to achieve and feels comfy and solid, a waft machine, but the A4 and A6 I just don't get. I love the styling, but my word they are dull.

[g3org3y]

gizlaroc said:

BMW seem to be heading in the same way, but I think I am done with new cars anyway. I have got 10 years of Covid debt to pay off, well, I had 10 years, we are now Tier 4 again from today, so might be 20 years, or go and get a job in the public sector.

I've seen some of your posts re how Covid has affected you (and your fellow colleagues) as a retailer. Sounds really bloody awful. I hope it works out in the end for you and you can survive. FWIW, I think retail and hospitality have been properly screwed over the Covid situation. Not fair at all.

[gizlaroc]

g3org3y said:

I've seen some of your posts re how Covid has affected you (and your fellow colleagues) as a retailer. Sounds really bloody awful. I hope it works out in the end for you and you can survive. FWIW, I think retail and hospitality have been properly screwed over the Covid situation. Not fair at all.

Cheers.
It is what it is.

I am 47, so have got 20 years left in me yet. So will be fine.

But the spring lockdown cost me around £130,000, and November around £30,000, we traded at 57% of normal through online channels in November. Albeit with reduced margin, but it was money coming in at least.

I have borrowed £50k to get me through it and so far have not had to touch it, so I was going to use it to pay off existing funding, saving me roughly £20,000 a year over the next 4 years.
But I'm being warned not to expect to be able to open again until the Easter Bank Holiday. Had a couple of people now get in touch warning the same. They have got all the other things to do with Covid right so far, so have no reason to doubt them.
So that will definitely get used up if true and we'll not be able to pay off the existing debt, and I may have to borrow more, if they will lend it to me.
We actually had a pretty good year last week, in fact most profitable year in over a decade.

However, like I said, I am 47 so have 20 years left.
I will be OK.


Many of my peers though are already in their 50s or 60's. They borrowed for the spring lockdown, but there is no point borrowing again, paying it back for 10 years when they are meant to be now putting it into their pension pot is one thing, borrowing for 20 years when you are wanting to retire in 10 years is simply not going to happen.

There are 112 retailers on my WhattsApp group, of which over 30 now have said they will not open the doors again for next spring. There simply isn't any point. That is over 25%.

Like they said, they are better off not working.


I don't think the government have any real idea what the situation is with retailers. I have had my local councillor say "You'll be fine, the government are paying your staff's wages."
Clueless.


It might be if we miss the spring season completely, be better to lock the doors completely until July and start again with a new season.
Taking in another £150000 of stock in January not knowing when we can open or if when we open the suppliers will be undercutting us, could be the final nail. At the moment I have no real idea, we need to know.

I suddenly got a shed loads of invoices from suppliers after Boris announced new tier 4 locations, suppliers starting to panic, wanting the stock out. We are not due it till end of Jan through till March, but they are trying to get it all out so we owe them. I have told them we won't accept till we know what is happening.
I would rather them call me in April saying "We have £30,000 of stock here for you, what do you need from us to take it." than "You have had that stock for 90 days already and not paid us anything."
I want the ball to be in my court, I want them to need me, I want them to realise simply delivering the product is not the end of it for them, which is what happened in the spring. Some got it, but not many. It was very much "We have completed our contracted obligations. You need to now pay us. Why should we offer any discount to help clear it?"

So we need to know what the plan is before 4th January. If we don't it will start to get very messy.

Edited by gizlaroc on Saturday 26th December 13:20

[gizlaroc]

Sorry for the derail, forgot it was a BMW buying thread for a second.

Just had a look on a few overseas configurators, they all seem to be very similar to the UK site, even Germany, in regards to engine and rwd options etc.

I guess BMW want to keep costs down and a buffet menu is much easier to do that than al a carte.

[JakeT]

gizlaroc said:

I agree. The M2 is the only car in the range I would want to own.

I was really disappointed with the 540i Touring, and so thought the M340i would be a better bet, it was pretty much the same.


Not really an issue though as I bought a 5 year old 530d Touring, which is fine, it does what it needs to do, but it doesn't feel all that "BMW" anymore.


For me it seems the only way to try and make them fun to drive is ramp up the power, but then we have AWD and active dampers and all very, very planted and a bit dull 99% of the time.


I had an LCI 520d Touring before the 530d Touring, and mapped with only 230hp, that was a great car, it felt considerably lighter and more nimble than the 530d, which has 310hp, and just felt more like my older 5 series.

What I will say is this, although BMWs now feel a little dull compared to older cars, if you go and jump into a new A6, A4 or even Merc E Class, they take that dullness to a whole other level.

The E Class sort of makes sense, as it feels like that is what it is trying to achieve and feels comfy and solid, a waft machine, but the A4 and A6 I just don't get. I love the styling, but my word they are dull.

I agree with all of this, and your point above.

There's a possibility that modern, torque-meister engines need the AWD in order not to be a flashing light mess, and give the feeling of security to owner.

A mate recently sold his 2018 S3, and I found him a really nice 130i to replace it instead. We took the S3 on a mates trip around Europe last summer, and it's very fast and competent, but I didn't come away from it wanting one in any way. The 130i felt a lot more engaging after 20 mins when we tested it recently.

I know as a retailer you've got a big level of COVID-related debt to pay off, but we'll all be there for some time, through taxation or the like. I personally don't mind, as I like the Dutch model toward income tax, but I won't have a new one. I can't really afford it, and I prefer the old(er) stuff.

[gizlaroc]

JakeT said:

I agree with all of this, and your point above.

There's a possibility that modern, torque-meister engines need the AWD in order not to be a flashing light mess, and give the feeling of security to owner.

A mate recently sold his 2018 S3, and I found him a really nice 130i to replace it instead. We took the S3 on a mates trip around Europe last summer, and it's very fast and competent, but I didn't come away from it wanting one in any way. The 130i felt a lot more engaging after 20 mins when we tested it recently.

I know as a retailer you've got a big level of COVID-related debt to pay off, but we'll all be there for some time, through taxation or the like. I personally don't mind, as I like the Dutch model toward income tax, but I won't have a new one. I can't really afford it, and I prefer the old(er) stuff.

I sold my 130i for £4k. What a tt! haha

I have a 986 Boxster S now. Just such a great analogue feeling car that you can pick up for peanuts. Well you could, seems they are getting more love now than ever and prices are climbing, plus keeping them fresh feeling is not cheap either. But compared to buying a new billy basic car, it is cheap fun.



Oh, I agree we will all be there with the Covid debt. I guess the main difference so for is many business owners are seeing the figures already. Many are simply thinking "It's not worth it."

I know I will have personal debt too to add.

It is all personal debt when you're the owner, I can't reduce costs anywhere other than our wages.

[gizlaroc]

I should add, I liked the 540i and the M340i, but I liked it in a 'ooh, its a great every day car' way.

But for £50,000 I just couldn't do it. Even if I could afford it, not sure I would.

I would rather buy a used Panamera Sport Turismo.


When the M340i Touring is down to £25k it starts to make more sense.
When they are £15k or so I will probably have one as the dog carrier.

IMHO of course.