A quick tyre opinion please
Discussion
Just a quickie, I've been looking for a bit more traction on my car. I'm currently running Michelin pilot sport 4s on the back and just browsing through the kwik fit site saw some Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
I am struggling for traction a bit, the time of year doesn't help much I know, but I was curious if they were any better. I'm not interested in whizzing around corners at a million miles an hour or anything, I could do with a bit more traction when I accelerate that's all... and i know i need an LSD really but the prices at Birds seemed to have rocketed for some un known reason so I thought I'd look at the relatively cheaper option first. Thanks
I am struggling for traction a bit, the time of year doesn't help much I know, but I was curious if they were any better. I'm not interested in whizzing around corners at a million miles an hour or anything, I could do with a bit more traction when I accelerate that's all... and i know i need an LSD really but the prices at Birds seemed to have rocketed for some un known reason so I thought I'd look at the relatively cheaper option first. Thanks
England87 said:
PS4’s are about as good as you will get, however any summer tyre is going to struggle with temperatures at this time of the year. Your only option for traction this time of year is full on winter tyres.
yeah I know the weather has something to do with it, but they use those on 700k McLarens, although a bigger size, so surely they must be a bit better??Andy70 said:
Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
No but winter tyres could be.Everyone thinks they are for use in snow/ice, but they aren't!
Below ambients of around 8 degrees "summer" tyres just don't work well, winter tyres work much better beyond this point.
A second set of wheels with winter tyres is 100% the way forward, anyone who has tried them will tell you.
On top of that if you actually look on tyrereviews.com you will see that they aren't actually the best of tyres.
Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 20th December 23:19
E-bmw said:
Andy70 said:
Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
No but winter tyres could be.Everyone thinks they are for use in snow/ice, but they aren't!
Below ambients of around 8 degrees "summer" tyres just don't work well, winter tyres work much better beyond this point.
A second set of wheels with winter tyres is 100% the way forward, anyone who has tried them will tell you.
On top of that if you actually look on tyrereviews.com you will see that they aren't actually the best of tyres.
Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 20th December 23:19
E-bmw said:
Andy70 said:
Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
No but winter tyres could be.Everyone thinks they are for use in snow/ice, but they aren't!
Below ambients of around 8 degrees "summer" tyres just don't work well, winter tyres work much better beyond this point.
A second set of wheels with winter tyres is 100% the way forward, anyone who has tried them will tell you.
On top of that if you actually look on tyrereviews.com you will see that they aren't actually the best of tyres.
Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 20th December 23:19
Formula 1 slick tyres are some of the grippiest tyres on the planet - But only if they're warm enough.
If the conditions are too cold, they provide no grip and all, and the F1 cars handle like they're on ice.
And it's the exact same thing with road tyres - When the temperatures drop below 8°C, "summer" tyres become extremely hard and stiff, and offer greatly reduced grip.
Winter tyres not only have a tread designed to cope better with ice and snow (they're not as good as full blown snow tyres, but they're a lot better than "summer" tyres when it comes to ice and snow), but they're made from a much softer compound than "summer" tyres, so they grip much better in low temperatures.
"Why not just use winter tyres all year?" you might wonder:
When the temperature rises well above 8°C, the soft compound winter tyres start to flex too much, leading to premature tyre wear, and imprecise handling - In basic terms, the vehicle's handling starts to feel "soggy".
The Holy Grail of tyres are ones that work superbly in Spring/Summer/Autumn AND Winter.
The tyre companies have worked hard to try and come up with the Holy Grail, and now sell "All Season" tyres.
This may sound like the perfect solution, but the reality is, to make the tyres do the job of both "summer" and winter tyres, they are compromised, so they're not as good as a "summer" tyre in Spring/Summer/Autumn, and they not as good as a dedicated winter tyre when the temperatures drop below 8°C.
For most drivers, who just tootle around, and use their car as transport from A to B and little else, the compromise will never be noticed, and so the tyres are ideal for them.
For drivers of performance/high performance cars, who are more sensitive to their car's handling in all weathers, the compromise is not acceptable, so two sets of tyres are required: "summer" and winter tyres.
I get the point regarding warm sticky tyres and summer/winter tyres, but I was more curious as to weather those Pirellis I mentioned could be 100 quid (retail), better than the pilots, knowing that the pilots are a pretty decent tyre, irrespective of the time of year. I find that hard to believe. They just popped up in a search on Kwik Fit, when other tyres were between £180-£200ish for the size I was looking at, all of a sudden, out on their own were those for £316 if I recall, per tyre!
Andy70 said:
Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
In a word, no.I had a Giulia Quadrifoglio with these on (it's their OEM tyre) and immediately swapped them out to Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersports as they don't do the PS4S in the right size for the Giulia.
In the cold / wet the Corsas are lethal, just look at any of the Giulia videos / forums, and even Clarkson mentioned it on the Grand Tour when it wasn't exactly quick on its lap time.
General consensus is the PS4S (not PS4) and Supersports are 95+% as good as the Corsas in the dry, but significantly better in all other conditions.
Nothing will beat winter tyres though, had a set on my previous 440i and the grip in cold and wet weather was fantastic.
Edited by RonnieHotdogs on Monday 21st December 19:45
RonnieHotdogs said:
Andy70 said:
Pirelli P Zero Corsa Asimmetrico for 100 quid more per tyre, are they really worth the extra?
In a word, no.I had a Giulia Quadrifoglio with these on (it's their OEM tyre) and immediately swapped them out to Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersports as they don't do the PS4S in the right size for the Giulia.
In the cold / wet the Corsas are lethal, just look at any of the Giulia videos / forums, and even Clarkson mentioned it on the Grand Tour when it wasn't exactly quick on its lap time.
General consensus is the PS4S and Supersports are 95+% as good as the Corsas in the dry, but significantly better in all other conditions.
Nothing will beat winter tyres though, had a set on my previous 440i and the grip in cold and wet weather was fantastic.
I changed some 18 inch run flats to 17 inch go flats. The wheels I bought came with some used track day type semi slicks. These had way way more grip than the 18 run flats. The grip was genuinely laugh out loud unbelievable. This was the first time I had experienced quality semi slick track day type tyres on a road car. It was a revelation. Some people claim to like run flats because they have a stiffer tyre wall. I hate them. I think they're awful. These 17 inch track day tyres may have had a stiff tyre wall. I dont know. I just know they gripped like stink and also the ride was easily more comfortable too. But they were noisey and when the road got damp the fun was over. But in the dry they redefined the laws of physics.
The above was copy and pasted so might not be exactly relevant to your question but I thought may provide some insight.
There are lots of super grippy tyres like this available from all the manufacturers and the Michelin equivalent will be Cup 2. If you try tyres like these you'll find them to be very very grippy when they work. At this time of year you're unlikely to get them to work so thats why lots of people are commenting here about the conditions and mentioning winter tyres. The ideal conditions for a grippy track tyre are even narrower than a general use high performance tyre.
Back to your LSD comment. My e91 335i was standard. I never found it lacking in grip or needing an LSD. My current 550i is similar. The difference of good tyres you'll notice when the conditions permit. The difference with an LSD will be noticeable all the time. I too dream about fitting an LSD to my BMW but for my driving on roads its probably not really necessary. Sure there are occasions when I can feel the car losing grip where an LSD might have helped but do I really care that much. They are an expensive add on which really needs suspension tweaks alongside to get the most benefit. That all adds up to a lot of money. And once you start down the modification road it is long and windy. When it comes to car mods my friends and I are always quick to repeat the old saying - if you want to make your car go quicker, buy a quicker car.
The above was copy and pasted so might not be exactly relevant to your question but I thought may provide some insight.
There are lots of super grippy tyres like this available from all the manufacturers and the Michelin equivalent will be Cup 2. If you try tyres like these you'll find them to be very very grippy when they work. At this time of year you're unlikely to get them to work so thats why lots of people are commenting here about the conditions and mentioning winter tyres. The ideal conditions for a grippy track tyre are even narrower than a general use high performance tyre.
Back to your LSD comment. My e91 335i was standard. I never found it lacking in grip or needing an LSD. My current 550i is similar. The difference of good tyres you'll notice when the conditions permit. The difference with an LSD will be noticeable all the time. I too dream about fitting an LSD to my BMW but for my driving on roads its probably not really necessary. Sure there are occasions when I can feel the car losing grip where an LSD might have helped but do I really care that much. They are an expensive add on which really needs suspension tweaks alongside to get the most benefit. That all adds up to a lot of money. And once you start down the modification road it is long and windy. When it comes to car mods my friends and I are always quick to repeat the old saying - if you want to make your car go quicker, buy a quicker car.
gizlaroc said:
When you say you are running PS4 on the back, you are also running them on the front too?
Many BMW become like they are on ice when mismatched tyres front and rear, that's all.
PS4 especially so.
Yeah I do run different tyres on the front, Pirelli P zero, should that effect rear traction though? I did say earlier that I'm not into the handling thing, my opinion is if you wanna go around a corner where you need M3 handling then you deserve to crash...but any way I was just looking for more traction without an LSD option. don't get me wrong the car grips fine really, I just think I'm at the limit with the power the car is runningMany BMW become like they are on ice when mismatched tyres front and rear, that's all.
PS4 especially so.
ATM said:
I changed some 18 inch run flats to 17 inch go flats. The wheels I bought came with some used track day type semi slicks. These had way way more grip than the 18 run flats. The grip was genuinely laugh out loud unbelievable. This was the first time I had experienced quality semi slick track day type tyres on a road car. It was a revelation. Some people claim to like run flats because they have a stiffer tyre wall. I hate them. I think they're awful. These 17 inch track day tyres may have had a stiff tyre wall. I dont know. I just know they gripped like stink and also the ride was easily more comfortable too. But they were noisey and when the road got damp the fun was over. But in the dry they redefined the laws of physics.
The above was copy and pasted so might not be exactly relevant to your question but I thought may provide some insight.
There are lots of super grippy tyres like this available from all the manufacturers and the Michelin equivalent will be Cup 2. If you try tyres like these you'll find them to be very very grippy when they work. At this time of year you're unlikely to get them to work so thats why lots of people are commenting here about the conditions and mentioning winter tyres. The ideal conditions for a grippy track tyre are even narrower than a general use high performance tyre.
Back to your LSD comment. My e91 335i was standard. I never found it lacking in grip or needing an LSD. My current 550i is similar. The difference of good tyres you'll notice when the conditions permit. The difference with an LSD will be noticeable all the time. I too dream about fitting an LSD to my BMW but for my driving on roads its probably not really necessary. Sure there are occasions when I can feel the car losing grip where an LSD might have helped but do I really care that much. They are an expensive add on which really needs suspension tweaks alongside to get the most benefit. That all adds up to a lot of money. And once you start down the modification road it is long and windy. When it comes to car mods my friends and I are always quick to repeat the old saying - if you want to make your car go quicker, buy a quicker car.
Interesting feedback mate, thanks for that, educational!... I was looking at some non EDC M3 suspension to see if that plants the back end better. . My car must be putting out well over 400 BHP... so you can see my dilemma, I have I suppose some may say a stage 3 set up, downpipes, intercooler, charge pipe and decat down pipes with a jb4 set on auto tune so I see the benefits of the mods.. The above was copy and pasted so might not be exactly relevant to your question but I thought may provide some insight.
There are lots of super grippy tyres like this available from all the manufacturers and the Michelin equivalent will be Cup 2. If you try tyres like these you'll find them to be very very grippy when they work. At this time of year you're unlikely to get them to work so thats why lots of people are commenting here about the conditions and mentioning winter tyres. The ideal conditions for a grippy track tyre are even narrower than a general use high performance tyre.
Back to your LSD comment. My e91 335i was standard. I never found it lacking in grip or needing an LSD. My current 550i is similar. The difference of good tyres you'll notice when the conditions permit. The difference with an LSD will be noticeable all the time. I too dream about fitting an LSD to my BMW but for my driving on roads its probably not really necessary. Sure there are occasions when I can feel the car losing grip where an LSD might have helped but do I really care that much. They are an expensive add on which really needs suspension tweaks alongside to get the most benefit. That all adds up to a lot of money. And once you start down the modification road it is long and windy. When it comes to car mods my friends and I are always quick to repeat the old saying - if you want to make your car go quicker, buy a quicker car.
regarding your comment at the end though my car cost 5k and not spent a grand on mods, there is no way I'd get a stock BMW with that power for that price
My Z4M Coupe came fitted with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (predecessor to the MPS4 I believe) and this time of year they lose grip very easily on roundabouts, etc. but at least it does have an LSD!
For most of the year their grip has been pheomenal, but they really need to be warm and that just won't happen until next Spring.
By comparison in current weather conditions my 330i has more grip on Hankook run-flat winter tyres!
I haven't tried MPS4s or the Pirellis you mention, but from what I have read and my experience of MPSS the Pirelli would have to be something really special to justify that sort of price premium - which seem unlikely.
For most of the year their grip has been pheomenal, but they really need to be warm and that just won't happen until next Spring.
By comparison in current weather conditions my 330i has more grip on Hankook run-flat winter tyres!
I haven't tried MPS4s or the Pirellis you mention, but from what I have read and my experience of MPSS the Pirelli would have to be something really special to justify that sort of price premium - which seem unlikely.
Mr Tidy said:
My Z4M Coupe came fitted with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (predecessor to the MPS4 I believe) and this time of year they lose grip very easily on roundabouts, etc. but at least it does have an LSD!
For most of the year their grip has been pheomenal, but they really need to be warm and that just won't happen until next Spring.
By comparison in current weather conditions my 330i has more grip on Hankook run-flat winter tyres!
I haven't tried MPS4s or the Pirellis you mention, but from what I have read and my experience of MPSS the Pirelli would have to be something really special to justify that sort of price premium - which seem unlikely.
It is a huge price difference isn't it and as I'm learning the PS4s seem to be exceptional in fact I got them originally from a recommendation off here. but winter tyres too seem to be a great optionFor most of the year their grip has been pheomenal, but they really need to be warm and that just won't happen until next Spring.
By comparison in current weather conditions my 330i has more grip on Hankook run-flat winter tyres!
I haven't tried MPS4s or the Pirellis you mention, but from what I have read and my experience of MPSS the Pirelli would have to be something really special to justify that sort of price premium - which seem unlikely.
Andy70 said:
It is a huge price difference isn't it and as I'm learning the PS4s seem to be exceptional in fact I got them originally from a recommendation off here. but winter tyres too seem to be a great option
I've been running winter tyres for the last 5 years on my 3 Series' and found out just how amazing they really are in 2018 when we had the Beast from the East. In snow they had almost as much grip as summer tyres in the wet - they were fantastic!Andy70 said:
Yeah I do run different tyres on the front, Pirelli P zero, should that effect rear traction though? I did say earlier that I'm not into the handling thing, my opinion is if you wanna go around a corner where you need M3 handling then you deserve to crash...but any way I was just looking for more traction without an LSD option. don't get me wrong the car grips fine really, I just think I'm at the limit with the power the car is running
Maybe I am missing it. But what car is it?
I thought you had a BMW, but I see you it says you have a TVR and S4?
Not sure why I thought it a BMW?
Maybe it is because I have heard this so many times on BMW forums over the last 20 years or so, and no one ever believes it is mismatched tyres, often swapping dampers, control arms, bushes etc. etc. and finally putting on matching tyres front and rear and BINGO!
With BMWs as they get more powerful, if you have different tyres front and rear it can really throw the car out, from the traction light coming on easily (should be really hard on most BMWs) to it feeling loose at the back end.
When you want to plant the throttle, if you do that on anything but a dtraight dry road with mixed tyres it can struggle to get the grip down.
There is absolutely no way I would even consider an LSD until I had 4 matching tyres on my car, the difference can be subtle to dangerous depending on how different the tyres act normally.
What car is it?
gizlaroc said:
Andy70 said:
Yeah I do run different tyres on the front, Pirelli P zero, should that effect rear traction though? I did say earlier that I'm not into the handling thing, my opinion is if you wanna go around a corner where you need M3 handling then you deserve to crash...but any way I was just looking for more traction without an LSD option. don't get me wrong the car grips fine really, I just think I'm at the limit with the power the car is running
Maybe I am missing it. But what car is it?
I thought you had a BMW, but I see you it says you have a TVR and S4?
Not sure why I thought it a BMW?
Maybe it is because I have heard this so many times on BMW forums over the last 20 years or so, and no one ever believes it is mismatched tyres, often swapping dampers, control arms, bushes etc. etc. and finally putting on matching tyres front and rear and BINGO!
With BMWs as they get more powerful, if you have different tyres front and rear it can really throw the car out, from the traction light coming on easily (should be really hard on most BMWs) to it feeling loose at the back end.
When you want to plant the throttle, if you do that on anything but a dtraight dry road with mixed tyres it can struggle to get the grip down.
There is absolutely no way I would even consider an LSD until I had 4 matching tyres on my car, the difference can be subtle to dangerous depending on how different the tyres act normally.
What car is it?
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