E90 330i automatic intermittent loss of drive
Discussion
Hi all,
I recently bought a 2005 E90 330i automatic with 76k miles. Car is great, however, on the journey home from purchase I stopped at a traffic light and when the light turned green I accelerated reasonably, but not hard, and the car hesitated for several seconds before accelerating, to the point where the cars behind beeped. No warning lights or anything, car felt as if it was working out whether to be in 1st gear or 2nd.
The car has subsequently done the same thing on a couple of occasions, when the vehicle is warm and you ask for a bit of acceleration it loses drive - no flaring of revs, no warning lights nothing. It feels dangerous, as often the reason you are asking for acceleration is to, for example, pull out on a busy road and you have no faith the car will deliver. Sometimes it is perfect, other times the same issue occurs.
The dealer I bought the car off has suggested it needs a gearbox oil change, and that he seen the same issue on other E90 and E60 automatics and this has resolved it. However, I am skeptical that this will resolve this issue and frankly I don't want to go to the effort of returning the car, have the oil change done, and the issue to reoccur. The car is under warranty and I have owned it for 5 days....
Has anyone had a similar issue and managed to resolve it? Or this is a deeper issue and should I push for a refund and return the vehicle? Or ride it out and rely on the warranty (£1k per claim, unlimited claims for 6 months) if the issue reappears after the oil change?
I recently bought a 2005 E90 330i automatic with 76k miles. Car is great, however, on the journey home from purchase I stopped at a traffic light and when the light turned green I accelerated reasonably, but not hard, and the car hesitated for several seconds before accelerating, to the point where the cars behind beeped. No warning lights or anything, car felt as if it was working out whether to be in 1st gear or 2nd.
The car has subsequently done the same thing on a couple of occasions, when the vehicle is warm and you ask for a bit of acceleration it loses drive - no flaring of revs, no warning lights nothing. It feels dangerous, as often the reason you are asking for acceleration is to, for example, pull out on a busy road and you have no faith the car will deliver. Sometimes it is perfect, other times the same issue occurs.
The dealer I bought the car off has suggested it needs a gearbox oil change, and that he seen the same issue on other E90 and E60 automatics and this has resolved it. However, I am skeptical that this will resolve this issue and frankly I don't want to go to the effort of returning the car, have the oil change done, and the issue to reoccur. The car is under warranty and I have owned it for 5 days....
Has anyone had a similar issue and managed to resolve it? Or this is a deeper issue and should I push for a refund and return the vehicle? Or ride it out and rely on the warranty (£1k per claim, unlimited claims for 6 months) if the issue reappears after the oil change?
Just a quick question is the traction control light flashing when this happens?
If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing b
ks. It should be done every 80k km.
Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing b
ks. It should be done every 80k km. Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
Edited by Huskyman on Thursday 4th February 16:44
Thanks Huskyman - to be honest I spoke to an indy BMW specialist (who are also a ZF gearbox specialist) before buying the car and they suggested getting it done at 80k, all in cost of £560, so was planning to get it done later this year anyway. Getting the dealer to do it saves me the £ and I like the car, so worth a shot I guess..
Huskyman said:
Just a quick question is the traction control light flashing when this happens?
If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing bks. It should be done every 80k km.
Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
No lights at all, it literally feels as though the car is working out whether to be in 1st or 2nd gear when it has a load asked of it, but by no means heavy throttle (I live in London, so no chance to go full throttle from the lights!)If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing b
ks. It should be done every 80k km. Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
Edited by Huskyman on Thursday 4th February 16:44
I think I'm minded to let him have a crack and see if it helps, but if not I will reject the car and ask him for a refund.
Shame as its otherwise a lovely clean, full history car with a great spec.
OW1984 said:
Huskyman said:
Just a quick question is the traction control light flashing when this happens?
If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing bks. It should be done every 80k km.
Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
No lights at all, it literally feels as though the car is working out whether to be in 1st or 2nd gear when it has a load asked of it, but by no means heavy throttle (I live in London, so no chance to go full throttle from the lights!)If the supplying dealer is transmission fluid service as a resolution and your not paying I would take him up on the offer, these transmissions are touted as being sealed for life, but they are not, it’s just marketing b
ks. It should be done every 80k km. Ask for a print out of any trouble codes and ask them to check the prop couplings if you go down this route.
Good luck.
Edited by Huskyman on Thursday 4th February 16:44
I think I'm minded to let him have a crack and see if it helps, but if not I will reject the car and ask him for a refund.
Shame as its otherwise a lovely clean, full history car with a great spec.
When I was looking for my current E91 I looked at both 330 petrol and diesel.
I went to view one 330i that had this exact same kind of hesitation that you mention, it also felt slightly lazy when kicking up on a gradient when applying more throttle. I don't recall the exact mileage, it was sub 70k and I didn't buy as the unknown put me off. The small dealer (only had BMWs and Mercs) acknowledged the fault but I was concerned about issues further down the line so left it.
It could just need a filter and fluids change, so if it's well spec'd and drives well otherwise then it's worth a shot at the dealer sorting and you having it back.
I went to view one 330i that had this exact same kind of hesitation that you mention, it also felt slightly lazy when kicking up on a gradient when applying more throttle. I don't recall the exact mileage, it was sub 70k and I didn't buy as the unknown put me off. The small dealer (only had BMWs and Mercs) acknowledged the fault but I was concerned about issues further down the line so left it.
It could just need a filter and fluids change, so if it's well spec'd and drives well otherwise then it's worth a shot at the dealer sorting and you having it back.
As others have said it may well be gearbox related, another thing to consider is the engine - do the revs rise when you have this delay?
Have you ever noticed a delay in throttle when just revving it at idle?
It could be the valvetronic motor- the ones used in early n52 engines used to cause quite a strange delay in throttle response which was cured on most with a software update or sometimes the vet motor had to be replaced
Have you ever noticed a delay in throttle when just revving it at idle?
It could be the valvetronic motor- the ones used in early n52 engines used to cause quite a strange delay in throttle response which was cured on most with a software update or sometimes the vet motor had to be replaced
I have had this on two 330i m sports, in both I had the gearbox oil changed and it did not solve the problem. The first car was stolen so never got to the bottom of the issue as it was just about to have the vanos solenoids replaced prior to someone pinching it.
I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
Elliot2000 said:
As others have said it may well be gearbox related, another thing to consider is the engine - do the revs rise when you have this delay?
Have you ever noticed a delay in throttle when just revving it at idle?
It could be the valvetronic motor- the ones used in early n52 engines used to cause quite a strange delay in throttle response which was cured on most with a software update or sometimes the vet motor had to be replaced
No rise in the revs at all when this occurs, car remains at idle but feels as if wants to move, but can't figure out what to do. If you leave the throttle as is, it does sort itself out after 5+seconds or I come off the throttle and tap it again, that does work but then you end up shooting off down the road. Have you ever noticed a delay in throttle when just revving it at idle?
It could be the valvetronic motor- the ones used in early n52 engines used to cause quite a strange delay in throttle response which was cured on most with a software update or sometimes the vet motor had to be replaced
Revving when stationery all seems fine
Fazza1977 said:
I have had this on two 330i m sports, in both I had the gearbox oil changed and it did not solve the problem. The first car was stolen so never got to the bottom of the issue as it was just about to have the vanos solenoids replaced prior to someone pinching it.
I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
That's so frustrating, especially on a car you otherwise like. It's also my big fear with this car, if I keep it and the oil change doesn't solve the issue then it becomes troublesome, expensive and time consuming to diagnose and repair. Whilst a gearbox oil change could well fix it I have a nagging feel it's something more than that. But it is a nice car in a good spec (SE with an M-sport interior, sat nav, sunroof), low mileage of 76k and a full history and I like it. I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
Feels like the gearbox oil change is worth a try - supplying dealer is paying for it and it could give a resolution. Then I always have the legal right to a full refund within 30 days and the dealer is being very fair about it, thus far.
Will see how I get on, doubtful but hopeful!
OW1984 said:
Fazza1977 said:
I have had this on two 330i m sports, in both I had the gearbox oil changed and it did not solve the problem. The first car was stolen so never got to the bottom of the issue as it was just about to have the vanos solenoids replaced prior to someone pinching it.
I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
That's so frustrating, especially on a car you otherwise like. It's also my big fear with this car, if I keep it and the oil change doesn't solve the issue then it becomes troublesome, expensive and time consuming to diagnose and repair. Whilst a gearbox oil change could well fix it I have a nagging feel it's something more than that. But it is a nice car in a good spec (SE with an M-sport interior, sat nav, sunroof), low mileage of 76k and a full history and I like it. I bought an exact replacement and after a year this developed the same issue at 81k. Had the gearbox oil changed, vanos solenoids replaced and various other bits. I have taken it to three separate BMW specialists and they cannot diagnose the fault. One has recommended essentially a vanos replacement (vvt motor, pulleys, etc..) but at a cost of £2,745 I don’t think the car is worth it. When they have stripped it and put it back together it seems to have cleared the hesitation issue but now I have a rough idle and a constant engine management light, when hooking it up says vanos codes. Back to the specialist and they can only clear one code and not the engine management light, after 20 seconds rough idle clears and car drives fine.
Neither car did it when I knocked it into sport mode.
It seems I am just throwing good money at it and no one can diagnose the problem.
Feels like the gearbox oil change is worth a try - supplying dealer is paying for it and it could give a resolution. Then I always have the legal right to a full refund within 30 days and the dealer is being very fair about it, thus far.
Will see how I get on, doubtful but hopeful!
Sounds like your car was babied all it’s life. Not a bad thing.
It definitely feels lazy under normal driving but this unfortunately is slightly different to that - the car actually appears to lose drive completely and won't pull away at all either from a standstill under certain conditions or from a low rolling speed if you ask for a bit of power (but nowhere near full throttle) the car just remains at idle and does not accelerate - if I had to describe it I'd say it feels like the gearbox is working out what to do and taking a breather whilst it does, which varies from irritating to dangerous, depending on the conditions! When it doesn't do this its a lovely thing to drive.
It's going in to have the oil and filter changed as the dealer is offering this free of charge so will see if this fixes it. Sadly, I'm cynical it will and have lost some faith in the car, especially given the fault appeared on the journey home from purchase. Fingers crossed this fixes it and at least the supplying dealer is being very fair about it.
It's going in to have the oil and filter changed as the dealer is offering this free of charge so will see if this fixes it. Sadly, I'm cynical it will and have lost some faith in the car, especially given the fault appeared on the journey home from purchase. Fingers crossed this fixes it and at least the supplying dealer is being very fair about it.
OW1984 said:
It definitely feels lazy under normal driving but this unfortunately is slightly different to that - the car actually appears to lose drive completely and won't pull away at all either from a standstill under certain conditions or from a low rolling speed if you ask for a bit of power (but nowhere near full throttle) the car just remains at idle and does not accelerate - if I had to describe it I'd say it feels like the gearbox is working out what to do and taking a breather whilst it does, which varies from irritating to dangerous, depending on the conditions! When it doesn't do this its a lovely thing to drive.
It's going in to have the oil and filter changed as the dealer is offering this free of charge so will see if this fixes it. Sadly, I'm cynical it will and have lost some faith in the car, especially given the fault appeared on the journey home from purchase. Fingers crossed this fixes it and at least the supplying dealer is being very fair about it.
Get the throttle demand/response checked. The throttle is drive by wire so make sure that the actual throttle pedal position is being read and that the engine is responding to demand. Get a general health check done as that almost sounds as if the engine is bogging down. It's going in to have the oil and filter changed as the dealer is offering this free of charge so will see if this fixes it. Sadly, I'm cynical it will and have lost some faith in the car, especially given the fault appeared on the journey home from purchase. Fingers crossed this fixes it and at least the supplying dealer is being very fair about it.
I also have the lack of anything happening when putting my foot down issue very occasionally too. Pedal goes to the floor, no revs, no lights, nothing happens. Have to quickly release the pedal and try again and it is fine.
It can't be recreated at will and happens infrequently, but it is horrid at traffic lights or a roundabout when you go to go and nothing happens.
I have assumed it is a accelerator, pedal electrical throttle issue which I will.ask the garage to check when it is next in for a service.
Mines a 2006 e91 n52 330i with auto on 70k.
It can't be recreated at will and happens infrequently, but it is horrid at traffic lights or a roundabout when you go to go and nothing happens.
I have assumed it is a accelerator, pedal electrical throttle issue which I will.ask the garage to check when it is next in for a service.
Mines a 2006 e91 n52 330i with auto on 70k.
Very similar to mine - no response at all and the car just carries on idling away smoothly whilst you go nowhere, can be pretty scary at lights or roundabouts. Completely intermittent fault and can't recreate it, despite trying to! Some journeys it drives faultlessly others it happens 2 or 3 times.
Mines a 2005 N52 330i auto with 76k, seems like its not an uncommon issue.
Will let you know how I get on with mine, it's back with the supplying dealer for him to get sorted, fingers crossed.
Mines a 2005 N52 330i auto with 76k, seems like its not an uncommon issue.
Will let you know how I get on with mine, it's back with the supplying dealer for him to get sorted, fingers crossed.
This is a relatively common issue, I have it with my 2006 630i (N52) auto and it only happens when the engine is warm and in standard mode. I've scoured the internet for any fix and I've not come across an"ah-ha" post I'm afraid. Ive learned to live with it, although do get a bit of anxiety when approaching a roundabout and I know I need to pull out. I generally will stick it in DS or manual mode and off we go.
It feels exactly like the gear box gets stuck between 1st and 2nd and is caught in the middle almost - I find it happens more regularly following a slow down and the gearbox being sluggish to pick up again; this would also explain why sticking it in sport mode completely eliminatinates the issue due to the higher revs needed.
In my eyes it's a design flaw between something with the N52, ZF box and standard map that makes it happen - not sure if anyone has tried approaching ZF about it?
It feels exactly like the gear box gets stuck between 1st and 2nd and is caught in the middle almost - I find it happens more regularly following a slow down and the gearbox being sluggish to pick up again; this would also explain why sticking it in sport mode completely eliminatinates the issue due to the higher revs needed.
In my eyes it's a design flaw between something with the N52, ZF box and standard map that makes it happen - not sure if anyone has tried approaching ZF about it?
Need to properly try the sport mode, but on the drive back to the dealership today (25 miles) it never happened once and drove perfectly, despite me 'engineering's scenarios where it might happen, although I engaged neutral at the lights a couple of times and revved the car and the engine, on one occasion, did not rev over 1500 for a few seconds, as if it was hesitating.
Explained to the selling dealer so will see what he conjurs up as a fix...
Explained to the selling dealer so will see what he conjurs up as a fix...
OW1984 said:
No rise in the revs at all when this occurs, car remains at idle but feels as if wants to move, but can't figure out what to do. If you leave the throttle as is, it does sort itself out after 5+seconds or I come off the throttle and tap it again, that does work but then you end up shooting off down the road.
Revving when stationery all seems fine
But delayed in responding- sorry - but it’s sounds exactly like valvetronic issues for the way you describe it -there was a technical bulletin for this back in the day which was a software update and then a very specific running in procedure to adapt the valvetronic motor, and if that failed - the motor was to be replaced ( if you unplug the valvetronic sensor - a round plug connection which is under the plastic engine cover near the oil filler cap it will disable the valvetronic system and revert to using the throttle butterfly instead like a normal engine- you will then be able to confirm if the motor was the cause as it should run fine.Revving when stationery all seems fine
Or if u have access to diagnostic software like ista then u can monitor the position of the motor as it’s running and u should be able to see the lag in movement when you try to rev
Just to update - the box was serviced (oil change etc) and the gearbox was notably smoother, but sadly the fault continued to occur. The dealer bought the car back off me for the original purchase price, so nothing lost.
Interestingly, he has since messaged me and believes it could be a fault with the boot not being shut properly, causing a message to be sent to the car and cutting power. Sounds like a load of rubbish to me...
Interestingly, he has since messaged me and believes it could be a fault with the boot not being shut properly, causing a message to be sent to the car and cutting power. Sounds like a load of rubbish to me...
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