BMW 330/5d or 530/5d what to look for? (E91/61)
Discussion
Last year, because of Covid, Sarah's car only did 6000 miles, and with a newly accepted job she will do less still moving forward.
As such the need for a mega frugal estate has gone out the window, and she's agreed to sell it and buy one of the subject titled models. Budget is £4500-£6000.
Some questions, and if anyone can advise weak points, common problems etc...
Thanks in advance.
As such the need for a mega frugal estate has gone out the window, and she's agreed to sell it and buy one of the subject titled models. Budget is £4500-£6000.
Some questions, and if anyone can advise weak points, common problems etc...
- Is it worth holding out for a 35d rather than a 30d, and can these handle high mileage (as many examples have, at this price point)
- Is a re-mapped 30d as near as damn it as quick, as this is a route we could go down.
- Is the pan glass roof problematic, as S would love one with this option.
- I've read that the gearboxes are sealed, does this cause any potential big bills?
- Is anyone with an E91 (any model) able to quickly measure the internal length back of boot to windscreen for us? One criteria is that the length of stuff it can transport needs to be as good as our current car (2015 Insignia estate) which (IIRC) can take 8 foot lengths of wood. We're house renovating and she has circa 1/3 of an acre of allotments, so this is often required. If not we'd narrow the search down to E61's.
- Any must have options, and is their Nav any good (a must have option)
- Is i-drive a head mangler? I have recently been diagnosed as severely Autistic, so I'd likely take a hammer to it if it wrecked my head!
- What are tax costs, and real world v driven briskly MPG's?
Thanks in advance.
Sorry, no experience of the 330d/335d but do have an E91 330i.
As with all of them, liable to leak. Nice feature though, not sure how common.
BMW state sealed for life.
ZF, the manufacturer disagree and suggest service (fluid change) every 60k. Thread about this here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Somewhat crude measurement, some flex in the tape but seems just under 300cm (touching the windscreen to the end of the boot mat). Looks like 8 foot should be ok.
.
IMO heated seats & xenon lights.
M sport trim also desirable (M Sport body kit, sport suspension, sport seats etc).
Nav is mediocre, as expected given the age of the car. I wouldn't say it's a must have.
iDrive is fine IME. Yes, a bit slow and clunky compared to modern systems but seems absolutely fine to me.
HTH.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Is the pan glass roof problematic, as S would love one with this option.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- I've read that the gearboxes are sealed, does this cause any potential big bills?
ZF, the manufacturer disagree and suggest service (fluid change) every 60k. Thread about this here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Is anyone with an E91 (any model) able to quickly measure the internal length back of boot to windscreen for us? One criteria is that the length of stuff it can transport needs to be as good as our current car (2015 Insignia estate) which (IIRC) can take 8 foot lengths of wood. We're house renovating and she has circa 1/3 of an acre of allotments, so this is often required. If not we'd narrow the search down to E61's.
. Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Any must have options, and is their Nav any good (a must have option)
M sport trim also desirable (M Sport body kit, sport suspension, sport seats etc).
Nav is mediocre, as expected given the age of the car. I wouldn't say it's a must have.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Is i-drive a head mangler? I have recently been diagnosed as severely Autistic, so I'd likely take a hammer to it if it wrecked my head!
HTH.
Petrol six cylinder E91 thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I second the recommendation for Xenon headlights.
I haven't seen people say much good about the pre-LCI iDrive, but I've found LCI iDrive fine and very easy to use. (Maybe I just have low expectations, but I've found the pro satnav fine. e90post occasionally has torrent links for updates; I've got 2020 maps in mine.)
If buying a 30i, maybe prefer one with the earlier N52 engine, as found in cars from 2007 or earlier. (How to spot the difference: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ) The later N53 is a bit of a risk, as it has from some common faults that are expensive to put right; there's a few threads here about that if you do a search. The later cars also have electric power steering, not to all tastes.
(I think something similar might apply to the 30d versions too, but don't quote me on that.)
Mine has the N53 engine, including the faults, though it has been reliable once fixed. I've still been too lazy to type of 4 years of petrol receipts, but the car claims 20-25 mpg round town and 35-40 mpg on the motorway. I like driving it - the engine is quite light, and it does sound pretty good if you let it warm up and use all the revs.
I second the recommendation for Xenon headlights.
I haven't seen people say much good about the pre-LCI iDrive, but I've found LCI iDrive fine and very easy to use. (Maybe I just have low expectations, but I've found the pro satnav fine. e90post occasionally has torrent links for updates; I've got 2020 maps in mine.)
If buying a 30i, maybe prefer one with the earlier N52 engine, as found in cars from 2007 or earlier. (How to spot the difference: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ) The later N53 is a bit of a risk, as it has from some common faults that are expensive to put right; there's a few threads here about that if you do a search. The later cars also have electric power steering, not to all tastes.
(I think something similar might apply to the 30d versions too, but don't quote me on that.)
Mine has the N53 engine, including the faults, though it has been reliable once fixed. I've still been too lazy to type of 4 years of petrol receipts, but the car claims 20-25 mpg round town and 35-40 mpg on the motorway. I like driving it - the engine is quite light, and it does sound pretty good if you let it warm up and use all the revs.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Many thanks for you comprehensive reply G3org3y, that's a great help, and many thanks for taking the time out with the tape measure 
No problem. Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
G3org3y. Having just had a listen to a 330i being given some beans it's now a contender, sounds lovely! Any issues common to your model?
Anyone else have any E61/E90 pointers?
Yes, the 330i does sound nice. Goes well mated to the autobox too.Anyone else have any E61/E90 pointers?
The N52 is fairly robust. The electric waterpumps are expensive but otherwise it's a reliable engine. Can be a bit leaky (oil filter housing, sump pan, valve cover gasket etc).
The later N53 as mentioned does have some known problem areas including the injectors and high pressure fuel pump.
If going for an e61 I'd be looking for an lci as there are many improvements particularly with the interior and gearbox. The 30d is perfectly adequate and a cracker of an engine for day to day driving with the power and torque instantly available, however the 30i is a wonderfully refined engine, buttery smooth and very satisfying to rev out.
We've had both and the wife prefers the instant torque of the diesel, try both yourselves.
Heated seats nice to have, comfort seats are excellent.
We've had both and the wife prefers the instant torque of the diesel, try both yourselves.
Heated seats nice to have, comfort seats are excellent.
I've got a manual 56 plate e92 330d that's been remapped. It's now on 157,000 miles and still going great! A previous owner had had the ccc idrive upgraded to the later cic as found in the lci cars and it's absolutely fine and easy to use once you learn it for a few days. I've got a couple of friends with cars that have the ccc systems still and it's not great, i think i'd prefer to not have idrive at all as long as it had bluetooth than ccc.
The M57D30 is a really good strong engine with no real big issues in the E9x series cars. Remapped they give more than enough performance because they're so torquey and good on fuel, i don't drive with economy in mind and still achieve high 30's to low 40's mpg, 50 on a run.
One of my friends has got a 325i which sounds lovely but doesn't feel very lively after my 330d so i'd only consider the 330/335i as a replacement.
In summary, if you can find a nice low milage M57 330d or if you don't mind auto a 335d you won't be disappointed. I doubt you'll find a nicer N57 engined later car for your budget unless you're lucky.
The M57D30 is a really good strong engine with no real big issues in the E9x series cars. Remapped they give more than enough performance because they're so torquey and good on fuel, i don't drive with economy in mind and still achieve high 30's to low 40's mpg, 50 on a run.
One of my friends has got a 325i which sounds lovely but doesn't feel very lively after my 330d so i'd only consider the 330/335i as a replacement.
In summary, if you can find a nice low milage M57 330d or if you don't mind auto a 335d you won't be disappointed. I doubt you'll find a nicer N57 engined later car for your budget unless you're lucky.
to3m said:
Petrol six cylinder E91 thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I second the recommendation for Xenon headlights.
I haven't seen people say much good about the pre-LCI iDrive, but I've found LCI iDrive fine and very easy to use. (Maybe I just have low expectations, but I've found the pro satnav fine. e90post occasionally has torrent links for updates; I've got 2020 maps in mine.)
If buying a 30i, maybe prefer one with the earlier N52 engine, as found in cars from 2007 or earlier. (How to spot the difference: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ) The later N53 is a bit of a risk, as it has from some common faults that are expensive to put right; there's a few threads here about that if you do a search. The later cars also have electric power steering, not to all tastes.
(I think something similar might apply to the 30d versions too, but don't quote me on that.)
Mine has the N53 engine, including the faults, though it has been reliable once fixed. I've still been too lazy to type of 4 years of petrol receipts, but the car claims 20-25 mpg round town and 35-40 mpg on the motorway. I like driving it - the engine is quite light, and it does sound pretty good if you let it warm up and use all the revs.
Without reading the 200+ pages are the main problems those g3org3y mentions in the post following yours, or are there other ones to see if sorted. AT has few <2007 examples, should 2007> ones likely have had the fixes done, and would obtaining evidence of work be sense? Good steering feel is a must, does the electric PS have so?I second the recommendation for Xenon headlights.
I haven't seen people say much good about the pre-LCI iDrive, but I've found LCI iDrive fine and very easy to use. (Maybe I just have low expectations, but I've found the pro satnav fine. e90post occasionally has torrent links for updates; I've got 2020 maps in mine.)
If buying a 30i, maybe prefer one with the earlier N52 engine, as found in cars from 2007 or earlier. (How to spot the difference: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ) The later N53 is a bit of a risk, as it has from some common faults that are expensive to put right; there's a few threads here about that if you do a search. The later cars also have electric power steering, not to all tastes.
(I think something similar might apply to the 30d versions too, but don't quote me on that.)
Mine has the N53 engine, including the faults, though it has been reliable once fixed. I've still been too lazy to type of 4 years of petrol receipts, but the car claims 20-25 mpg round town and 35-40 mpg on the motorway. I like driving it - the engine is quite light, and it does sound pretty good if you let it warm up and use all the revs.
BrownBottle said:
If going for an e61 I'd be looking for an lci as there are many improvements particularly with the interior and gearbox. The 30d is perfectly adequate and a cracker of an engine for day to day driving with the power and torque instantly available, however the 30i is a wonderfully refined engine, buttery smooth and very satisfying to rev out.
We've had both and the wife prefers the instant torque of the diesel, try both yourselves.
Heated seats nice to have, comfort seats are excellent.
Thanks, both may be worth trying then. What is an lci?We've had both and the wife prefers the instant torque of the diesel, try both yourselves.
Heated seats nice to have, comfort seats are excellent.
Lci is BMW-speak for facelift. I've got a 2006 E61 530d, pre-Lci and I've taken it from 60k miles to 140k miles with no mechanical issues - they can be slightly electrically flaky, very sensitive to battery voltage for example. Mine has mangled the rear heated screen wire and I can't be bothered to fix it, after attempting once before. Google E61 tailgate wiring to see.
It drives very well, steering feel is much better than my same-age Z4 for example. I've remapped mine so it pulls well (generic Evolve tune flashed through OBDII port), fuel consumption has never been great for a diesel though - averages 35mpg (before and after remap), 40mpg on a run. I believe the Lci models to be much better in that regard - I think you can tell Lci on the E61 by the lack of a normal key, they moved to a slot and a started button IIRC.
It's been a great car, I still like driving it and I'll keep it until it dies. I've had my gearbox fluid changed twice and the gearbox still changes gear smoothly. They are massive inside with the rear seats down
It drives very well, steering feel is much better than my same-age Z4 for example. I've remapped mine so it pulls well (generic Evolve tune flashed through OBDII port), fuel consumption has never been great for a diesel though - averages 35mpg (before and after remap), 40mpg on a run. I believe the Lci models to be much better in that regard - I think you can tell Lci on the E61 by the lack of a normal key, they moved to a slot and a started button IIRC.
It's been a great car, I still like driving it and I'll keep it until it dies. I've had my gearbox fluid changed twice and the gearbox still changes gear smoothly. They are massive inside with the rear seats down
I started looking at e61’s because good ones were hard to find, they were also 7-9k for something with reasonable miles and a decent spec. In the end I spent £4700 on. A 2012 508 estate. I still play the auto trader game though.
For the diesel the most common issues are
Suspension
Egr
Thermostats (3)
Front crank pulley
Glow plugs
Glow plug relay unit
Nav system failure
Dpf (service life of around 125k on some)
Make sure the battery is relatively new, if agm they tend to have a life of 4-5 years before they start to die
Also tailgate glass electrics
For the diesel the most common issues are
Suspension
Egr
Thermostats (3)
Front crank pulley
Glow plugs
Glow plug relay unit
Nav system failure
Dpf (service life of around 125k on some)
Make sure the battery is relatively new, if agm they tend to have a life of 4-5 years before they start to die
Also tailgate glass electrics
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
* Is it worth holding out for a 35d rather than a 30d, and can these handle high mileage (as many examples have, at this price point)
I've not driven both but I'm happy with my E91 335d and would always be annoyed if I got the 330d.Bear in mind the E6x 535d had two different revisions of engines, the later was more powerful, whereas the E9x 335d just got the later one.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Is a re-mapped 30d as near as damn it as quick, as this is a route we could go down.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
- Is the pan glass roof problematic, as S would love one with this option.
Mines broken, and I've paid a specialist £160 to break it even more - but it's a lovely thing.
Worst case scenario, a second hand one is a couple of hundred quid.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
* I've read that the gearboxes are sealed, does this cause any potential big bills?
It just means replacing the gearbox oil isn't on the service schedule, and the oil is specified to last the lifetime of the vehicle.Unfortunately, that lifetime is probably 100k miles / 10 years, of which they'll all be past by now.
However, ZF (who make the gearbox) say it should be changed every 60k / 4 years or something.
The parts are about £150-£200, maybe £400 at a garage.
If it drives badly an oil change will help, but they wear internally too but as they adjust for it, you can't tell unless you read the adaptation values. This is comparable to a manual clutch though.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
* Any must have options, and is their Nav any good (a must have option)
Mine has CIC iDrive - i wasn't expecting much going in, but I wouldn't buy a BMW without it now.- Is i-drive a head mangler? I have recently been diagnosed as severely Autistic, so I'd likely take a hammer to it if it wrecked my head!
I haven't tried CCC iDrive - this it the previous generation that came with the E6x / E9x pre-LCI.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
* What are tax costs, and real world v driven briskly MPG's?
MPG is rubbish.The 35d engine is obviously worse than the 30d engine, but being auto-only also makes it seem worse when compared to a manual.
Over the last 6k mines averaged 36 MPG.
Lockdown etc has affected the use, but for comparison I was getting 46 MPG from my RenaultSport Megane 175.
Full thread on my car here - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=18...
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Without reading the 200+ pages are the main problems those g3org3y mentions in the post following yours, or are there other ones to see if sorted. AT has few <2007 examples, should 2007> ones likely have had the fixes done, and would obtaining evidence of work be sense? Good steering feel is a must, does the electric PS have so?
Not sure about e90s but my e60 lci with the N53 engine had hydraulic power steering.As mentioned already the 30d isn't all that on fuel economy unless you're doing lots of long distance motorway driving which it sounds like you aren't, so I wouldn't factor it in to your buying decision.
Also worth noting you'll have more chance of finding a lower mileage petrol than a diesel however there tends to be a lot more diesels for sale.
BrownBottle said:
Not sure about e90s but my e60 lci with the N53 engine had hydraulic power steering.
As mentioned already the 30d isn't all that on fuel economy unless you're doing lots of long distance motorway driving which it sounds like you aren't, so I wouldn't factor it in to your buying decision.
Also worth noting you'll have more chance of finding a lower mileage petrol than a diesel however there tends to be a lot more diesels for sale.
If economy is important then buy an E91 330d manual. My mates e60 530d auto is crap on fuel whereas I easily get 40 mpg without trying on my commutes. I did a 1300 mile trip up to and around Scotland then back to Yorkshire last year so that included every kind of driving you can think of and I didn’t hang about where appropriate. As mentioned already the 30d isn't all that on fuel economy unless you're doing lots of long distance motorway driving which it sounds like you aren't, so I wouldn't factor it in to your buying decision.
Also worth noting you'll have more chance of finding a lower mileage petrol than a diesel however there tends to be a lot more diesels for sale.
BrownBottle said:
Not sure about e90s but my e60 lci with the N53 engine had hydraulic power steering.
As mentioned already the 30d isn't all that on fuel economy unless you're doing lots of long distance motorway driving which it sounds like you aren't, so I wouldn't factor it in to your buying decision.
Also worth noting you'll have more chance of finding a lower mileage petrol than a diesel however there tends to be a lot more diesels for sale.
MPG isn't the main factor, I'm wanting something high performance, having been 'stuck' with a Kangoo van and a CDTi for 5 years. Having heard the 330i and seen the way it moves down the road I'm impressed, all said. Just need to sell the Insignia now!As mentioned already the 30d isn't all that on fuel economy unless you're doing lots of long distance motorway driving which it sounds like you aren't, so I wouldn't factor it in to your buying decision.
Also worth noting you'll have more chance of finding a lower mileage petrol than a diesel however there tends to be a lot more diesels for sale.
nomis36 said:
If economy is important then buy an E91 330d manual. My mates e60 530d auto is crap on fuel whereas I easily get 40 mpg without trying on my commutes. I did a 1300 mile trip up to and around Scotland then back to Yorkshire last year so that included every kind of driving you can think of and I didn’t hang about where appropriate.
I forgot to mention, whilst I'll do more driving, Auto is a must. S has only driven these for the last 15 years, doesn't get along with manuals now. 
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