BMW Approved Used Standards - Am I being demanding?
Discussion
I’ve just spent far too long than was necessary at my local BMW dealer looking at a used M3, and i wanted to check if i’m being over demanding. The reason i ask is that the dealer absolutely refused to see my point and wouldn’t compromise at all.
Story goes, i’m looking for a late E92 M3 and my local dealer has one - its top, top money but very good spec and ultimately the additional assurance of warranty and ‘quality assurance’ adds a little value. Prices of these things are ridiculous, but nonetheless i want one and that’s that.
On the test drive, the car is a little wobbly and wandering slightly from the front end. When we parked up, i had a good nose around and noticed that the NSF tyre is almost new (dated late 2018 and 6mm tread) but the OSF is from 2014 and has 4mm. I checked the rears while i was there and they were both 2014 with 3mm, the depth is all according to the BMW inspection report by the way, as i don’t carry a gauge with me. All tyres were Continental ContiSport thingies, didn’t actually check if they were the same model but let’s assume so.
So, i like the car and am happy to do a deal if they replace the tyres. My reasoning was that for a car that is right at the top of the price range for these things, being sold under the Approved Used scheme, there should be minimum expectations that isn’t really met by three 7 year old tyres.
From the reaction i got, it was like i’d shat on the desk. The sales guy insisted that the only standard that mattered was the tread depth, and 3mm was the minimum. As a compromise they offered to replace the oldest front tyre (but only after i told them i was leaving), but i pointed out that would still give me uneven tread depths. My ask was simple, either new tyres all round or money off and i’ll go and buy them myself.
I ended up leaving without an agreement as they simply wouldn’t budge. Am i being unrealistic? I know there isn’t an official guide on age of tyres, but for the money they’re asking i was expecting the best.
Story goes, i’m looking for a late E92 M3 and my local dealer has one - its top, top money but very good spec and ultimately the additional assurance of warranty and ‘quality assurance’ adds a little value. Prices of these things are ridiculous, but nonetheless i want one and that’s that.
On the test drive, the car is a little wobbly and wandering slightly from the front end. When we parked up, i had a good nose around and noticed that the NSF tyre is almost new (dated late 2018 and 6mm tread) but the OSF is from 2014 and has 4mm. I checked the rears while i was there and they were both 2014 with 3mm, the depth is all according to the BMW inspection report by the way, as i don’t carry a gauge with me. All tyres were Continental ContiSport thingies, didn’t actually check if they were the same model but let’s assume so.
So, i like the car and am happy to do a deal if they replace the tyres. My reasoning was that for a car that is right at the top of the price range for these things, being sold under the Approved Used scheme, there should be minimum expectations that isn’t really met by three 7 year old tyres.
From the reaction i got, it was like i’d shat on the desk. The sales guy insisted that the only standard that mattered was the tread depth, and 3mm was the minimum. As a compromise they offered to replace the oldest front tyre (but only after i told them i was leaving), but i pointed out that would still give me uneven tread depths. My ask was simple, either new tyres all round or money off and i’ll go and buy them myself.
I ended up leaving without an agreement as they simply wouldn’t budge. Am i being unrealistic? I know there isn’t an official guide on age of tyres, but for the money they’re asking i was expecting the best.
As the tyres were all legal tread depth and its a 2014 car I don't really see how you have much leverage - apart from simply asking for money off on the basis that you will need to replace them soon (or at least three of them). As the seller will not budge on price then you have to either accept it or walk away. Maybe in 2019 you would have more chance of negotiating a discount but thats not the case any more and if this particular car ticks all your boxes, apart from the tyres, maybe best to just suck it up and pay what they are asking.
I don't think you are being over demanding. If its top, top money (your words) then it should be tip top.
They should IMO knock some money off. Maybe the price of 2 decent tyres and let you sort it yourself. You can then choose your brand and model, and probably get them cheaper still.
Unfortunately, in my experience, some places simply will not budge, so if you want it, you might have to accept the one tyre. Hopefully you can choose that one and then go elsewhere and get the other 3 asap.
They should IMO knock some money off. Maybe the price of 2 decent tyres and let you sort it yourself. You can then choose your brand and model, and probably get them cheaper still.
Unfortunately, in my experience, some places simply will not budge, so if you want it, you might have to accept the one tyre. Hopefully you can choose that one and then go elsewhere and get the other 3 asap.
I believe all new tyres are only warranted against fault for 5 years by the manufacturer (certainly with Goodyear, as this came into question when mine were faulty just under 5 years). Hence they cannot be sold after 5 years old.
But if already on a car there's currently no law detailing at what age they need to be replaced.
If you got into a row over it, probably best to walk away as it indicates what might happen when you go back with upcoming faults, and there will be plenty... it's a BMW.
But if already on a car there's currently no law detailing at what age they need to be replaced.
If you got into a row over it, probably best to walk away as it indicates what might happen when you go back with upcoming faults, and there will be plenty... it's a BMW.
Well a mix of opinions, but to be clear this is top end in terms of price and everything else was good, with the right spec for me. There are only a couple of examples up for sale anywhere at a higher price, but i always try and buy the best example of any car i can find.
I think perhaps the fact that i’ve been out of the buying game for a while, and i didn’t expect that level of intransigence for the dealer, has annoyed me. I was expecting some form of negotiation, but they were saying that they can’t get stock in to replace what they sell and therefore the price was the price. Maybe that’s how it is, but knowing my luck i’ll buy a car and the arse will fall out of the market the next day.
I’m going to sleep on it and perhaps see if a new day bring fresh perspective. If nothing else, i’ll ask for some form of contribution to new tyres and just get them done myself.
But i do think it’s bad darts that something as important as tyres has no other guideline for quality than how much tread is left. Irrespective of the car brand, i’d have expected better.
I think perhaps the fact that i’ve been out of the buying game for a while, and i didn’t expect that level of intransigence for the dealer, has annoyed me. I was expecting some form of negotiation, but they were saying that they can’t get stock in to replace what they sell and therefore the price was the price. Maybe that’s how it is, but knowing my luck i’ll buy a car and the arse will fall out of the market the next day.
I’m going to sleep on it and perhaps see if a new day bring fresh perspective. If nothing else, i’ll ask for some form of contribution to new tyres and just get them done myself.
But i do think it’s bad darts that something as important as tyres has no other guideline for quality than how much tread is left. Irrespective of the car brand, i’d have expected better.
_Hoppers said:
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a new set to replace those at 3mm. After all, if you bought it as is then took it for a service the next day at a BMW dealer they’d be recommending you renew the tyres!
That's a good point, and maybe one that the OP could quote to the salesman? I'd price up a set of tyres on blackcircles etc, and do some man maths to help your decision.
Driver101 said:
It's a bit strange to see an M3 with 7 year old tyres. A very easy life for that time, or part worn tyres put on?
Well that’s one theory, i checked the MoT history and it shows this:
Either they weren’t replaced and the next MoT didn’t pick it up, or they were replaced and old tyres put on. Not indicative of fastidious ownership, but the car is in superb condition and has solid history so I don’t really have any concerns in reality.
They’re definitely not the original tyres, as they’re a year newer than the car itself.
mikeswagon said:
_Hoppers said:
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a new set to replace those at 3mm. After all, if you bought it as is then took it for a service the next day at a BMW dealer they’d be recommending you renew the tyres!
That's a good point, and maybe one that the OP could quote to the salesman? I'd price up a set of tyres on blackcircles etc, and do some man maths to help your decision.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Driver101 said:
It's a bit strange to see an M3 with 7 year old tyres. A very easy life for that time, or part worn tyres put on?
Well that’s one theory, i checked the MoT history and it shows this:Either they weren’t replaced and the next MoT didn’t pick it up, or they were replaced and old tyres put on. Not indicative of fastidious ownership, but the car is in superb condition and has solid history so I don’t really have any concerns in reality.
They’re definitely not the original tyres, as they’re a year newer than the car itself.
How worn are the edges? The edges are usually worse and you can maybe push them on that.
How long has the car been up for sale?
I’d expect more too personally.
I was surprised to see what some of the dealers are asking for an E92 AUC when I had a look yesterday. At those kind of prices it’s need to be Bob on, including matching tyres.
I agree with the other posters, if that was your car in for a service they’d be doing ethic best to sell you some tyres.
I was surprised to see what some of the dealers are asking for an E92 AUC when I had a look yesterday. At those kind of prices it’s need to be Bob on, including matching tyres.
I agree with the other posters, if that was your car in for a service they’d be doing ethic best to sell you some tyres.
Sounds like they've got profit in mind. It does look in pretty amazing condition, and a very rare spec by the looks.
If you really want it I'd probably have it anyway, even if they replaced the tyres they might just chuck cheap rubbish on there.
I'd go back and point out that they'd flag it on a service for changing them, ask them to chip it down 500 quid.
If you really want it I'd probably have it anyway, even if they replaced the tyres they might just chuck cheap rubbish on there.
I'd go back and point out that they'd flag it on a service for changing them, ask them to chip it down 500 quid.
As you are paying top money for an AUC car, quite rightly you are expecting the car to be spot on. I too would be trying to negotiate new tyres.
The reality is you are in a sales negotiation. The car meets the AUC standard and the dealer obviously thinks he can sell at the listed price so doesn’t need to negotiate. With the current madness he may be right.
As you’ve walked you have tested their position, they’re standing firm.
I would be more concerned about the wandering you mention. If you really want the car I would negotiate on the cost of them fitting tyres (use black circles as a guide) but focus on the wandering and get them to do a full alignment. Costs them little but saves you a couple of hundred. Alternatively, you could agree just on the alignment as part of the deal. They may say it needs new tyres to be aligned and they should then do it (this is what happened to me!)
The reality is you are in a sales negotiation. The car meets the AUC standard and the dealer obviously thinks he can sell at the listed price so doesn’t need to negotiate. With the current madness he may be right.
As you’ve walked you have tested their position, they’re standing firm.
I would be more concerned about the wandering you mention. If you really want the car I would negotiate on the cost of them fitting tyres (use black circles as a guide) but focus on the wandering and get them to do a full alignment. Costs them little but saves you a couple of hundred. Alternatively, you could agree just on the alignment as part of the deal. They may say it needs new tyres to be aligned and they should then do it (this is what happened to me!)
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