Anyone gone from E92 M3 to M140?
Discussion
As I’ve posted elsewhere I’m considering consolidating my daily driver Fiesta ST & 2013 E92 manual M3 into one car & can’t shake off thoughts that the M140 might be a good middle ground.
Fully aware it’s more mini GT than true hot hatch (doubly so as I’d go ZF8) but wondered if anyone’s done it & thoughts?
Cheers
Fully aware it’s more mini GT than true hot hatch (doubly so as I’d go ZF8) but wondered if anyone’s done it & thoughts?
Cheers
I’d drive one.
I was torn between an E9x M3 and an M140i. I went with the latter (faster on paper with better running costs plus being new no worry about bearings, throttle actuators or general borkage).
It was the wrong decision for me. The 140i left me rather cold after two years to be honest. It was pretty bloody quick but rather effortless getting there and it only felt exciting at very naughty speeds.
For me it lacked in the looks, sound and handling department. My uncle’s E90 M3 made a fab noise and had a real zing to the way it drove. It felt very different to the normal BMW’s that I’ve owned.
The B58 / ZF8 are a fab combination but the chassis can’t keep up. Even with a few mods it (B8 dampers, underbody brace and softer springs) it left a lot to be desired especially on a good back road.
Whilst they miss the mark for some, others love them. A friend has one and he loves it.
I was torn between an E9x M3 and an M140i. I went with the latter (faster on paper with better running costs plus being new no worry about bearings, throttle actuators or general borkage).
It was the wrong decision for me. The 140i left me rather cold after two years to be honest. It was pretty bloody quick but rather effortless getting there and it only felt exciting at very naughty speeds.
For me it lacked in the looks, sound and handling department. My uncle’s E90 M3 made a fab noise and had a real zing to the way it drove. It felt very different to the normal BMW’s that I’ve owned.
The B58 / ZF8 are a fab combination but the chassis can’t keep up. Even with a few mods it (B8 dampers, underbody brace and softer springs) it left a lot to be desired especially on a good back road.
Whilst they miss the mark for some, others love them. A friend has one and he loves it.
cerb4.5lee said:
I've gone E92 M3 to a F82 M4(DCT) and I love the effortlessness of the torque in the M4. I'd imagine the M140i auto to be very similar I'd imagine.
From all I’ve read you’re more a torque man than having to rev it out, I can get why the E92 bugged you, especially on the manual where you need BIG roads to use it much past 6k!Last night I had the window open most of the drive & the noise is just superb, & mines standard!
Court_S said:
I’d drive one.
I was torn between an E9x M3 and an M140i. I went with the latter (faster on paper with better running costs plus being new no worry about bearings, throttle actuators or general borkage).
It was the wrong decision for me. The 140i left me rather cold after two years to be honest. It was pretty bloody quick but rather effortless getting there and it only felt exciting at very naughty speeds.
For me it lacked in the looks, sound and handling department. My uncle’s E90 M3 made a fab noise and had a real zing to the way it drove. It felt very different to the normal BMW’s that I’ve owned.
The B58 / ZF8 are a fab combination but the chassis can’t keep up. Even with a few mods it (B8 dampers, underbody brace and softer springs) it left a lot to be desired especially on a good back road.
Whilst they miss the mark for some, others love them. A friend has one and he loves it.
I’m intending on getting a drive in one ASAP. The whole having to drive it like you stole it is one thing that bugs me about the E92, it feels fairly ordinary below it. I was torn between an E9x M3 and an M140i. I went with the latter (faster on paper with better running costs plus being new no worry about bearings, throttle actuators or general borkage).
It was the wrong decision for me. The 140i left me rather cold after two years to be honest. It was pretty bloody quick but rather effortless getting there and it only felt exciting at very naughty speeds.
For me it lacked in the looks, sound and handling department. My uncle’s E90 M3 made a fab noise and had a real zing to the way it drove. It felt very different to the normal BMW’s that I’ve owned.
The B58 / ZF8 are a fab combination but the chassis can’t keep up. Even with a few mods it (B8 dampers, underbody brace and softer springs) it left a lot to be desired especially on a good back road.
Whilst they miss the mark for some, others love them. A friend has one and he loves it.
I’ve a M103 straight six in an old Merc & it’s so smooth, it’s lovely to simply waft around in & I’m wondering if the B58 is similar, or am I kidding myself?
I’m also surrounded by great B roads & do wonder if the M140 will fall apart, especially after I’ve been use to the fairly hard core ST & E92, this is why a Civic FK8 makes so much sense really, decisions, decisions!
Cheers for input fellas, appreciated
acme said:
I’m intending on getting a drive in one ASAP. The whole having to drive it like you stole it is one thing that bugs me about the E92, it feels fairly ordinary below it.
I’ve a M103 straight six in an old Merc & it’s so smooth, it’s lovely to simply waft around in & I’m wondering if the B58 is similar, or am I kidding myself?
I’m also surrounded by great B roads & do wonder if the M140 will fall apart, especially after I’ve been use to the fairly hard core ST & E92, this is why a Civic FK8 makes so much sense really, decisions, decisions!
Cheers for input fellas, appreciated
Wafting around in the 140i is easy; there so much torque and the ZF8 is great. The ride rather ruins the waftability though because the suspension never settles. It’s firm and busy.I’ve a M103 straight six in an old Merc & it’s so smooth, it’s lovely to simply waft around in & I’m wondering if the B58 is similar, or am I kidding myself?
I’m also surrounded by great B roads & do wonder if the M140 will fall apart, especially after I’ve been use to the fairly hard core ST & E92, this is why a Civic FK8 makes so much sense really, decisions, decisions!
Cheers for input fellas, appreciated
The Birds suspension for them is supposed to be ace and an LSD makes a big difference too but it’s a lot of money on top and gets you close to an M2 in terms of spend.
The 140i made the most sense when it was just doing daily stuff. I really struggled with it when doing fun trips out in it because of the chassis. I thought that there would be a bit more M car in it but ultimately it’s just a 1 series with a big engine.
Court_S said:
Wafting around in the 140i is easy; there so much torque and the ZF8 is great. The ride rather ruins the waftability though because the suspension never settles. It’s firm and busy.
The Birds suspension for them is supposed to be ace and an LSD makes a big difference too but it’s a lot of money on top and gets you close to an M2 in terms of spend.
The 140i made the most sense when it was just doing daily stuff. I really struggled with it when doing fun trips out in it because of the chassis. I thought that there would be a bit more M car in it but ultimately it’s just a 1 series with a big engine.
I’d only get one with adaptive suspension, though I assume that makes it more compliant does it improve things when pushing on? (Blame Joe Achilles for this view!). That said I searched for 2+ years for a manual LCI E92 with EDC & couldn’t turn down my AUC one when it turned up & I’ve not missed it all, the passive set up seems spot on. The ride feels like a limo compared to the ST!The Birds suspension for them is supposed to be ace and an LSD makes a big difference too but it’s a lot of money on top and gets you close to an M2 in terms of spend.
The 140i made the most sense when it was just doing daily stuff. I really struggled with it when doing fun trips out in it because of the chassis. I thought that there would be a bit more M car in it but ultimately it’s just a 1 series with a big engine.
I’m not really into modding, plus I’d want a shadow edition last of the line well specced which are 30k (madness).
Your final comment does concern me, years ago I drove a regular 1 for a while & the steering was truly appalling, an Atari had more feel!
acme said:
I’d only get one with adaptive suspension, though I assume that makes it more compliant does it improve things when pushing on? (Blame Joe Achilles for this view!). That said I searched for 2+ years for a manual LCI E92 with EDC & couldn’t turn down my AUC one when it turned up & I’ve not missed it all, the passive set up seems spot on. The ride feels like a limo compared to the ST!
I’m not really into modding, plus I’d want a shadow edition last of the line well specced which are 30k (madness).
Your final comment does concern me, years ago I drove a regular 1 for a while & the steering was truly appalling, an Atari had more feel!
Mine was on passive, to be honest despite people saying that adaptive is a must in the real world no one seemed to spec it. When I was looking at used cars, I didn’t come across any with it. The only person I know with it wasn’t happy and had it coded out and replaced with an aftermarket set up.I’m not really into modding, plus I’d want a shadow edition last of the line well specced which are 30k (madness).
Your final comment does concern me, years ago I drove a regular 1 for a while & the steering was truly appalling, an Atari had more feel!
From what I can gather, even in the sport setting it’s too soft for most.
Mine was a Shadow Edition, although I didn’t go heavy on the spec.
The steering leaves quite a lot to be desired, especially compared to the HPAS in your E9x. It’s worse than the EPAS in the E8x 1 series.
I ended up feeling like I’d made a mistake by not buying the E9x M3, especially as my car usage changed.
Court_S said:
Mine was on passive, to be honest despite people saying that adaptive is a must in the real world no one seemed to spec it. When I was looking at used cars, I didn’t come across any with it. The only person I know with it wasn’t happy and had it coded out and replaced with an aftermarket set up.
From what I can gather, even in the sport setting it’s too soft for most.
Mine was a Shadow Edition, although I didn’t go heavy on the spec.
The steering leaves quite a lot to be desired, especially compared to the HPAS in your E9x. It’s worse than the EPAS in the E8x 1 series.
I ended up feeling like I’d made a mistake by not buying the E9x M3, especially as my car usage changed.
There are quite a few on AT showing as with it, but of course if they actually have it that’s another matter! Whereas on the E92 it’s easy to see the EDC button I can’t see how you can confirm if a M140 has it, any ideas?From what I can gather, even in the sport setting it’s too soft for most.
Mine was a Shadow Edition, although I didn’t go heavy on the spec.
The steering leaves quite a lot to be desired, especially compared to the HPAS in your E9x. It’s worse than the EPAS in the E8x 1 series.
I ended up feeling like I’d made a mistake by not buying the E9x M3, especially as my car usage changed.
There’s no doubt I need a decent test drive in one, problem is as I know from the ST you really don’t get a chance to properly test across a wide range of roads etc.
That 1 series I mentioned previously was a 2012 model, it was my first experience of BM’s & I was gutted, all I’d read etc & my MK5 Golf was a LOT better!
I might’ve spoilt myself by having my first BM being a M car!
acme said:
There are quite a few on AT showing as with it, but of course if they actually have it that’s another matter! Whereas on the E92 it’s easy to see the EDC button I can’t see how you can confirm if a M140 has it, any ideas?
There’s no doubt I need a decent test drive in one, problem is as I know from the ST you really don’t get a chance to properly test across a wide range of roads etc.
That 1 series I mentioned previously was a 2012 model, it was my first experience of BM’s & I was gutted, all I’d read etc & my MK5 Golf was a LOT better!
I might’ve spoilt myself by having my first BM being a M car!
The steering will be the same as the 140 then. It’s not the best, the EPAS in the previous generation is better in my opinion/experience. There’s no doubt I need a decent test drive in one, problem is as I know from the ST you really don’t get a chance to properly test across a wide range of roads etc.
That 1 series I mentioned previously was a 2012 model, it was my first experience of BM’s & I was gutted, all I’d read etc & my MK5 Golf was a LOT better!
I might’ve spoilt myself by having my first BM being a M car!
It depends on the dealer. When I test drove a 140i I was given the keys and told to come back in an hour. That way I got to drive it on some local roads I knew reasonably well (although my frustrations with the car manifested over a period of time).
You’ve indeed set the bar rather high especially going for one with that engine.
I wouldn't do it. The Fiesta is a better hot hatch and the M3 a better sports car.
My 140 is brilliant now it has birds suspension and quaiffe diff but as said above that's a good few more k on top of the purchase price and it's still not as much fun as the ST (albeit streets ahead in other areas)
My 140 is brilliant now it has birds suspension and quaiffe diff but as said above that's a good few more k on top of the purchase price and it's still not as much fun as the ST (albeit streets ahead in other areas)
Court_S said:
The steering will be the same as the 140 then. It’s not the best, the EPAS in the previous generation is better in my opinion/experience.
It depends on the dealer. When I test drove a 140i I was given the keys and told to come back in an hour. That way I got to drive it on some local roads I knew reasonably well (although my frustrations with the car manifested over a period of time).
You’ve indeed set the bar rather high especially going for one with that engine.
The steering comment certainly worries me, I wouldn’t say the E92 is outstanding. It depends on the dealer. When I test drove a 140i I was given the keys and told to come back in an hour. That way I got to drive it on some local roads I knew reasonably well (although my frustrations with the car manifested over a period of time).
You’ve indeed set the bar rather high especially going for one with that engine.
Similar happened when I test drove a Civic, though not on familiar roads. I test drove various ST’s but didn’t spend long enough to realise just how poor the seat bases & position were in particular on a long ish commute. That said on B roads it really does excel, pound for pound it really is quite remarkable.
mooseracer said:
I wouldn't do it. The Fiesta is a better hot hatch and the M3 a better sports car.
My 140 is brilliant now it has birds suspension and quaiffe diff but as said above that's a good few more k on top of the purchase price and it's still not as much fun as the ST (albeit streets ahead in other areas)
I think your analogy explains my predicament precisely & why I’m struggling to find the middle ground. My 140 is brilliant now it has birds suspension and quaiffe diff but as said above that's a good few more k on top of the purchase price and it's still not as much fun as the ST (albeit streets ahead in other areas)
I wouldn’t want to modify as I’m unlikely to keep it too long.
It is unfortunately a quandary and perhaps once again why the FK8 is (oddly) the sensible answer.
With regards to the M140 I can't recommend the adaptive suspension. Comfort mode is great for tootling about town but once you start pushing on it's too soft and gives no confidence. Sport mode for me was unusable on UK roads, it's just too bouncy. I regretted speccing it and ended up ditching it for the Birds kit a few months ago. I'd recommend getting a passive car and installing a B12 kit as it's quite cheap and much better than stock.
The biggest regret you will have is going from a full fat M car to an M lite.
However you'll have more usable power, more of the time, cheaper maintenance and running costs. Not to mention you won't have to wait tirelessly for the warm up sequence on the m140.
As said out the box the m140 isn't brilliant but neither is the e92. The adaptive suspension option is one you should consider which then just leaves the diff to fit which it definitely needs.
Theres enough power to keep things interesting they tend to run 370 standard and a stage 1 will have you back above 400.
The zf8 is a very good box and very quick.
You're right with the mini GT type car it is. It's a jack of all types and a good sweet spot among the hatches atm.
The FK8 is a nice option however I think the m140 pips it on the engine. Ultimately this is what sways me to the 6cylinder M lites. However I do like the interior on the fk8 and think the Civics have come a very long way.
Either options aren't bad but if it's down to the engine and exhaust note the 6cylinder is the one it has to be.
However you'll have more usable power, more of the time, cheaper maintenance and running costs. Not to mention you won't have to wait tirelessly for the warm up sequence on the m140.
As said out the box the m140 isn't brilliant but neither is the e92. The adaptive suspension option is one you should consider which then just leaves the diff to fit which it definitely needs.
Theres enough power to keep things interesting they tend to run 370 standard and a stage 1 will have you back above 400.
The zf8 is a very good box and very quick.
You're right with the mini GT type car it is. It's a jack of all types and a good sweet spot among the hatches atm.
The FK8 is a nice option however I think the m140 pips it on the engine. Ultimately this is what sways me to the 6cylinder M lites. However I do like the interior on the fk8 and think the Civics have come a very long way.
Either options aren't bad but if it's down to the engine and exhaust note the 6cylinder is the one it has to be.
village24 said:
As said out the box the m140 isn't brilliant but neither is the e92. The adaptive suspension option is one you should consider which then just leaves the diff to fit which it definitely needs.
The E9x might not be perfect, but as it left the factory it’s a damn sight better than the M140.Court_S said:
The E9x might not be perfect, but as it left the factory it’s a damn sight better than the M140.
Again you need to remember what cars were attempting to compare, ones a full fat M car which will hit most boxes of being, special, engaging, rewarding and a v8. To get the best out of the m3 you need to drive it at 9/10th which on UK roads you'll never get opportunity even stretch 3rd to over 8k. Whereas you'll utilise the m140 more day to day, it might not be as special but the b58 is a real peach of an engine and does make a lovely noise. As mentioned above a few mods and a tune and you'll be running similar power to an e92.
Personally if it was me I'd improve handling and traction before adding power and thats why i would take it birds for a suspension and diff pack and then enjoy the car thereafter.
village24 said:
To get the best out of the m3 you need to drive it at 9/10th which on UK roads you'll never get opportunity even stretch 3rd to over 8k. Whereas you'll utilise the m140 more day to day, it might not be as special but the b58 is a real peach of an engine and does make a lovely noise. As mentioned above a few mods and a tune and you'll be running similar power to an e92.
This is what I love about my F82 M4 so much as well. It just feels so fast absolutely everywhere, whereas in comparison to the E92 M3 I had...that only felt fast eventually for me. Nothing happened below 6000rpm in the V8 M3, whereas the M4 is up and at it at very low revs and it just keeps pulling at the redline too. They feel like completely different cars to drive for me. The majority on PH seem to hate turbocharged cars, but for me they offer so much more over the old NA engined M cars for sure.
village24 said:
Again you need to remember what cars were attempting to compare, ones a full fat M car which will hit most boxes of being, special, engaging, rewarding and a v8.
To get the best out of the m3 you need to drive it at 9/10th which on UK roads you'll never get opportunity even stretch 3rd to over 8k. Whereas you'll utilise the m140 more day to day, it might not be as special but the b58 is a real peach of an engine and does make a lovely noise. As mentioned above a few mods and a tune and you'll be running similar power to an e92.
Personally if it was me I'd improve handling and traction before adding power and thats why i would take it birds for a suspension and diff pack and then enjoy the car thereafter.
My 140i missed the mark for me even with some chassis mods; the longer I had it, the more it was just a fast one series.To get the best out of the m3 you need to drive it at 9/10th which on UK roads you'll never get opportunity even stretch 3rd to over 8k. Whereas you'll utilise the m140 more day to day, it might not be as special but the b58 is a real peach of an engine and does make a lovely noise. As mentioned above a few mods and a tune and you'll be running similar power to an e92.
Personally if it was me I'd improve handling and traction before adding power and thats why i would take it birds for a suspension and diff pack and then enjoy the car thereafter.
The engine noise is ok, but the N55 is an M2 sounds a s
t load better. In fact the N55 powered M135i sounds better to my ears.The Birds option sounds like it makes a big difference but it’s a lot of money and given how much 140’s are selling for at the mo, not where I’d be going. I decided that rather than chuck a load of money at it that I’d rather use that money towards an OG M2 which sounds and looks better. Unfortunately the COVID tax on used cars has scuppered that for now.
I've got both, E92 M3 as a weekend car & an M140i for everything else. Had the M3 for about 6 years & the M140i a few months.
I did get the M140i with a view to possibly selling the M3 but if I sold anything now it would be the M140i. I do like it but, to me, it feels a bit like my previous daily (a Leon Cupra) which is a 'normal' car with a powerful engine, whereas the M3 just feels like it was made to be a sports car. The M3 also feels like the newer car to me, everything feels tighter & more precise.
Having said all that, if I had had to get rid of the M3 the M140i is definitely a very good middle ground &, other than the suspension issues as already mentioned, I don't have anything bad to say about it. I get over 40mpg on a long journey & the effortless torque is nice.
Bottom line is if it was a straight choice it would always be the M3 for me. I suppose the only thing that could affect that would be it if was for daily use, then I might have to think twice!
I did get the M140i with a view to possibly selling the M3 but if I sold anything now it would be the M140i. I do like it but, to me, it feels a bit like my previous daily (a Leon Cupra) which is a 'normal' car with a powerful engine, whereas the M3 just feels like it was made to be a sports car. The M3 also feels like the newer car to me, everything feels tighter & more precise.
Having said all that, if I had had to get rid of the M3 the M140i is definitely a very good middle ground &, other than the suspension issues as already mentioned, I don't have anything bad to say about it. I get over 40mpg on a long journey & the effortless torque is nice.
Bottom line is if it was a straight choice it would always be the M3 for me. I suppose the only thing that could affect that would be it if was for daily use, then I might have to think twice!
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