Contemplating an E38
Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm contemplating an E38 as my next car, just came on here looking for any advice?
I'm from the UK but currently living abroad in Eastern Europe. Will probably buy the car from Germany or from where I am if anything pops up however the used car market where I am isn't that good.
We also have the advantage of the 730d having been sold in Europe (would love the 740d but road tax will be very bad for it) so currently looking at pretty high mileage 728i or 730d.
I'm contemplating an E38 as my next car, just came on here looking for any advice?
I'm from the UK but currently living abroad in Eastern Europe. Will probably buy the car from Germany or from where I am if anything pops up however the used car market where I am isn't that good.
We also have the advantage of the 730d having been sold in Europe (would love the 740d but road tax will be very bad for it) so currently looking at pretty high mileage 728i or 730d.
Check EVERYWHERE for rust. At the age they're at now, they rust for fun/fizz in the rain...!
Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
What's not to love about an E38.
Had a 750 as a run about for 8years, rust added to a failed head gasket was it's downfall in the end. Tho i do miss it.
Dan above, has pretty much covered the things to look out for, tho I'll add, fuel tanks like to leak. So take a good look at what you can see under the car, or find one with a recently replaced tank.
Had a 750 as a run about for 8years, rust added to a failed head gasket was it's downfall in the end. Tho i do miss it.
Dan above, has pretty much covered the things to look out for, tho I'll add, fuel tanks like to leak. So take a good look at what you can see under the car, or find one with a recently replaced tank.
^
That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
FilH said:
What's not to love about an E38.
Had a 750 as a run about for 8years, rust added to a failed head gasket was it's downfall in the end. Tho i do miss it.
Dan above, has pretty much covered the things to look out for, tho I'll add, fuel tanks like to leak. So take a good look at what you can see under the car, or find one with a recently replaced tank.
Good call re the fuel tanks; forgot that bit (they like to rust/seep from pin holes and split at the seams too; they're metal based and not plastic, unfortunately). Replacement (if it can't be fixed) is a c£1k job IIRCHad a 750 as a run about for 8years, rust added to a failed head gasket was it's downfall in the end. Tho i do miss it.
Dan above, has pretty much covered the things to look out for, tho I'll add, fuel tanks like to leak. So take a good look at what you can see under the car, or find one with a recently replaced tank.
My E38 had a slight fuel leak but fortunately is was from the filler connection at the tank. Removed the filler pipe, trimmed it back a bit and used a new jubilee clip and no issues after that
MitchT said:
^
That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
Cheers; loved it and regretted selling it. It lost an argument with a lorry 8 weeks after That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
I'd just fitted all new BC coilovers all round too; it drove like a dream and handled superbly too!
Touring442 said:
They are/were nice wafters but are SO needy now. To the list add snapping front springs and water ingress resulting in the front under carpet fusebox rusting to bits.
IMO the E65 730i or 730d is a better plan - if you like them that is!
Needy; maybe if not looked afterIMO the E65 730i or 730d is a better plan - if you like them that is!
But still hell of a lot cheaper to fix and maintain than any E65!
All you need is a few electrical niggles, that the E65s are famous for, and you'll regret buying it fast...
IMO a looked after and well maintained E38 is still a much better choice than an E65 (unless you can find a decent & well spec'd 750i or 760i that's been properly looked after)
Like most cars of it's type, the handful of cheaper examples on ebay and Autotrader are what have survived the phase these went through when they were at a low enough buy in price to fall into the wrong hands. In my opinion these cars don't make sense now as a snotter/shed. Too expensive to buy into and expect it to last only a year/till the MOT runs out so you can chuck it away it it breaks.
The only decent ones left probably amount to not far off single figures. Forget multiple owners with patchy history. Mileage doesn't matter, but you'll want a low owner garaged example with full service history, and expect to not get much change out of £5-7k, and expect to pump a few grand into it. They rust, most of it is hidden behind plastic, and no one thinks to check the jacking points- they are extraordinarily susceptible to rot there. I've seen three this year, all rotten as a pear when you really look, and none with it mentioned on recent MOT's. By the time rust is visible on one of these it's probably worth walking away.
The 6 cylinder 728i is the most reliable engine, normal cooling issues that the E39 also has. The 735i and 740i can have timing chain guide issues that can wreck the engine. I don't know too much about the 750i, although it's known to be more reliable than the V8. All of them have the same steel fuel tank which commonly fails. All of them can suffer with electrical gremlins. If you do go to see one, make sure you brim it and check for leaks.
Most threads on PH regarding E38 running costs are close to a decade out of date, they are exceptionally needy beasties nowadays, dealers won't have a clue so it will help to live near a reputable BMW specialist.
The only decent ones left probably amount to not far off single figures. Forget multiple owners with patchy history. Mileage doesn't matter, but you'll want a low owner garaged example with full service history, and expect to not get much change out of £5-7k, and expect to pump a few grand into it. They rust, most of it is hidden behind plastic, and no one thinks to check the jacking points- they are extraordinarily susceptible to rot there. I've seen three this year, all rotten as a pear when you really look, and none with it mentioned on recent MOT's. By the time rust is visible on one of these it's probably worth walking away.
The 6 cylinder 728i is the most reliable engine, normal cooling issues that the E39 also has. The 735i and 740i can have timing chain guide issues that can wreck the engine. I don't know too much about the 750i, although it's known to be more reliable than the V8. All of them have the same steel fuel tank which commonly fails. All of them can suffer with electrical gremlins. If you do go to see one, make sure you brim it and check for leaks.
Most threads on PH regarding E38 running costs are close to a decade out of date, they are exceptionally needy beasties nowadays, dealers won't have a clue so it will help to live near a reputable BMW specialist.
Unless you find one either from the south of Europe, or garaged (dry garage), or there is a proof of extensive rust eradication, you are going to have to tackle it. If you are not hands-on person it can get expensive. The E65 or preferably the elegant E66 730Li is a very niche car - and it has no rust issues whatsoever being the first fully phosphatised and electrocoated production car, using the state of the art RoDip (rotate and dip) industrial production process. Being an I6 person, I have both an individual E38 728i and also individual E66 730Li, both facelifts. There are light years betwen them - E38 is the epitomy of BMWs elegant function and form, whereas E66 an inimitable piece of automotive design - especially in the fully blown Composition 1 individual guise. I like them both very much, but dinamically E66 is on a different planet. Suspension, steering, so much sharper and more comfortable (E66 has Dynamic Drive and air suspension). That is not to say I don't like jumping into the E38 for that old school BMW feel. Horses for courses they say. The only thing I changed on the E66 is the rear diff: from ludicrously short 1:4.1 to motorway-happy 1:3.46 from E60 530i.
d_a_n1979 said:
Check EVERYWHERE for rust. At the age they're at now, they rust for fun/fizz in the rain...!
Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
You have me sold, they’re stunning cars. I have an E39 already in the U.K. but really struggling to justify fixing it as there is so much rust. Looking likely that it may be done for but an E38 would very much be a worthy replacement. Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
rayyan171 said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Check EVERYWHERE for rust. At the age they're at now, they rust for fun/fizz in the rain...!
Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
You have me sold, they’re stunning cars. I have an E39 already in the U.K. but really struggling to justify fixing it as there is so much rust. Looking likely that it may be done for but an E38 would very much be a worthy replacement. Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
I did seriously contemplate another E38; I went and viewed an E38 728i Sport that had been meticulously maintained & looked after; but it was still a basic spec inside (basic stereo, no heated seats, no nav etc). That can be sorted easily enough (we've already got decent heated seat covers for my wifes Jazz) and stereo stuff in the E38 is plug n play with it being a non-nav motor
I did look at a 750i that was local'ish to me too; a lovely car, needed bodywork/welding but I was happy to consider that as part of the project, but the seller was a knobber and wouldn't entertain any offers at all and it's still up for sale and will be for a LONG time, typical small-time dealer.
If you're used to E39s then the E38 isn't that dissimilar at all when it comes to suspension & brakes etc and they're easy to maintain that way; same with the engines & cooling systems etc
It's just the rust, like E39s, that if left, it can ruin the whole car
The E38 is the best looking 7 series (and one of the best looking cars of any series) that BMW ever made.
Previous and later 7 series looked bulky and heavy (and in the case of later 7 series - Ugly too!), whereas the the E38, with it's low waistline, slender pillars, and flat bonnet and boot, looks both svelte and sporty at the same time - Looks-wise, it's a design masterpiece!
The E65 design looks too disjointed, it lacks the elegance that the E38 had.
The electrical issues that the E65 can suffer from, are that model's version of the E38's rust issues - It's the thing that is going to cause the majority of them being scrapped off.
The E38 is reaching classic status - Something I can't see the E65 and later 7 series ever doing.
Previous and later 7 series looked bulky and heavy (and in the case of later 7 series - Ugly too!), whereas the the E38, with it's low waistline, slender pillars, and flat bonnet and boot, looks both svelte and sporty at the same time - Looks-wise, it's a design masterpiece!
The E65 design looks too disjointed, it lacks the elegance that the E38 had.
The electrical issues that the E65 can suffer from, are that model's version of the E38's rust issues - It's the thing that is going to cause the majority of them being scrapped off.
The E38 is reaching classic status - Something I can't see the E65 and later 7 series ever doing.
4rephill said:
The E38 is the best looking 7 series (and one of the best looking cars of any series) that BMW ever made.
Previous and later 7 series looked bulky and heavy (and in the case of later 7 series - Ugly too!), whereas the the E38, with it's low waistline, slender pillars, and flat bonnet and boot, looks both svelte and sporty at the same time - Looks-wise, it's a design masterpiece!
The E65 design looks too disjointed, it lacks the elegance that the E38 had.
The electrical issues that the E65 can suffer from, are that model's version of the E38's rust issues - It's the thing that is going to cause the majority of them being scrapped off.
The E38 is reaching classic status - Something I can't see the E65 and later 7 series ever doing.
Agree with most of that; although I prefer the F01 to the E65 looks... The E38 is still the best shape they ever made...Previous and later 7 series looked bulky and heavy (and in the case of later 7 series - Ugly too!), whereas the the E38, with it's low waistline, slender pillars, and flat bonnet and boot, looks both svelte and sporty at the same time - Looks-wise, it's a design masterpiece!
The E65 design looks too disjointed, it lacks the elegance that the E38 had.
The electrical issues that the E65 can suffer from, are that model's version of the E38's rust issues - It's the thing that is going to cause the majority of them being scrapped off.
The E38 is reaching classic status - Something I can't see the E65 and later 7 series ever doing.
All 3 of mine; in order to my current F01:
d_a_n1979 said:
MitchT said:
^
That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
Cheers; loved it and regretted selling it. It lost an argument with a lorry 8 weeks after That is a thing of beauty!
I'd love an E38 but I already have an E36 which is frightening enough where rust and other horrors are concerned. I did see a stunning E38 for sale and started to do due diligence, however, I did an MOT check on it and some of the advisories relating to corrosion were enough to make me think better of it... and that was what appeared to be a good one! Whoever bought it will have some big bills coming up.
I'd just fitted all new BC coilovers all round too; it drove like a dream and handled superbly too!
d_a_n1979 said:
rayyan171 said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Check EVERYWHERE for rust. At the age they're at now, they rust for fun/fizz in the rain...!
Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
You have me sold, they’re stunning cars. I have an E39 already in the U.K. but really struggling to justify fixing it as there is so much rust. Looking likely that it may be done for but an E38 would very much be a worthy replacement. Lower doors, rear aches, sills, jacking points, rear boot lid/boot lid lock, rear valance and rear suspension top mount areas all rust and need to be checked
As for the interior; make sure the seat electrics work, the fans work at all speeds and blow hot as they should and cold (with air con on); if they don't do this is either the FSU or blower motor and both are big jobs
Suspension needs to be checked; any shimmys around 50/60mph then suspension arms need to be replaced. They're heavy cars, so can eat through suspension & brakes easily, so the brakes need to be checked too
The 728i is a superb car IMO and the M52 straight 6 is a superb lump. Decent power; solid/bulletproof engine that's easy to fix and maintain. Cooling systems turn to chocolate with age, so make sure that it's been refreshed recently with paperwork to prove, otherwise budget for the stat, water pump & hoses to be replaced at a minimum. They do well with regular oil changes too, 5W30 or 5W40 is perfect
IMO the M52 gets the car up to license losing speeds in no time; a lot of folk say it's under powered but I disagree, its a great engine and suits the car well. Ok, its not the V8 or V12, but still a belting lump!
Tim's 'meeknet' site is well worth reading through too, although he doesn't cover the 728i / 730D engines much; but the rest is the same:
https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/
This was my 2000 728i and I loved it; my very first BMW:
I did seriously contemplate another E38; I went and viewed an E38 728i Sport that had been meticulously maintained & looked after; but it was still a basic spec inside (basic stereo, no heated seats, no nav etc). That can be sorted easily enough (we've already got decent heated seat covers for my wifes Jazz) and stereo stuff in the E38 is plug n play with it being a non-nav motor
I did look at a 750i that was local'ish to me too; a lovely car, needed bodywork/welding but I was happy to consider that as part of the project, but the seller was a knobber and wouldn't entertain any offers at all and it's still up for sale and will be for a LONG time, typical small-time dealer.
If you're used to E39s then the E38 isn't that dissimilar at all when it comes to suspension & brakes etc and they're easy to maintain that way; same with the engines & cooling systems etc
It's just the rust, like E39s, that if left, it can ruin the whole car
Being in Europe, I have the advantage of possibly being able to buy a 730d however I'm not liking the extra complexity of the M57. Older examples had much more issues with swirl flaps on those engines and just the extra complexity of diesels to deal with. But the option is still there. There also seems to be a few manual 728i examples for sale as well which seems like a super reliable car to own however I don't think a manual box suits these cars. Will look to move into more modern motoring a few years down the line, taking advantage of where I live and the lack of issues surrounding emissions currently as I don't have to worry about euro emissions, which may also explain why they sell for lower prices in Germany as they may have stricter emissions currently.
Lots of thinking to do but I am very much looking to get one of these now.
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