BMW - Opinions needed.
Discussion
I'm unable to find the dedicated BMW page, so perhaps Admin could shift this to the right section …. my apologies.
In feb 2020 I bought a 335i Petrol engined Coupé on a 58 plate. It came from main dealer and I paid over the odds because I reckoned that with it's outstanding appearance, it's low mileage (55k), its Park Lane servicing through out its life and the fully supportive 12 month new car warranty, I could afford to have confidence.
Since purchase I've covered app.6000 miles, if that. A month ago I went to start it and there was a horrible rumbling noise and it wouldn't run. To shorten a boring story of unbelievable non-dealer incompetence, I ended up taking to where I should have gone in the first place, my nearest main dealer.
The upshot of the problem appears to be water ingression in what is referred to as the DME Box. I 'phoned the salesman from whom I bought the car, reminding him that he advised me that the previous owner had spent £4k on the car in Dec. 2019. He muttered something about the DME but that was about it, he's due to call me today. …….. bear in mind now that genuine beemer parts carry a 2 year warranty.
OK so the warranty has expired, but there are times in life when if we speak to people nicely, help may be forthcoming ……..
Now here's my question; when we consider the thought and planning that goes in to our modern cars, and from the question of niggling and expensive problems, if a DME Box is that fragile, would I be right in imagining that if it wasn't a factory sealed box, it would at least have a degree of permanent protection? Could I expect or at least hope, for some assistance, or have I got no realistic argument?
…….. and as a footnote to the otherwise unwary ~ when you have an interested party but a non-approved and supposed BMW engineer tell you that his research abilities in to engine management problems are the very equal of Main Dealers facilities, I'm here to tell you that that may not be the truth ~ the man may well be spouting a load of old bullocks.
In feb 2020 I bought a 335i Petrol engined Coupé on a 58 plate. It came from main dealer and I paid over the odds because I reckoned that with it's outstanding appearance, it's low mileage (55k), its Park Lane servicing through out its life and the fully supportive 12 month new car warranty, I could afford to have confidence.
Since purchase I've covered app.6000 miles, if that. A month ago I went to start it and there was a horrible rumbling noise and it wouldn't run. To shorten a boring story of unbelievable non-dealer incompetence, I ended up taking to where I should have gone in the first place, my nearest main dealer.
The upshot of the problem appears to be water ingression in what is referred to as the DME Box. I 'phoned the salesman from whom I bought the car, reminding him that he advised me that the previous owner had spent £4k on the car in Dec. 2019. He muttered something about the DME but that was about it, he's due to call me today. …….. bear in mind now that genuine beemer parts carry a 2 year warranty.
OK so the warranty has expired, but there are times in life when if we speak to people nicely, help may be forthcoming ……..
Now here's my question; when we consider the thought and planning that goes in to our modern cars, and from the question of niggling and expensive problems, if a DME Box is that fragile, would I be right in imagining that if it wasn't a factory sealed box, it would at least have a degree of permanent protection? Could I expect or at least hope, for some assistance, or have I got no realistic argument?
…….. and as a footnote to the otherwise unwary ~ when you have an interested party but a non-approved and supposed BMW engineer tell you that his research abilities in to engine management problems are the very equal of Main Dealers facilities, I'm here to tell you that that may not be the truth ~ the man may well be spouting a load of old bullocks.
Hi. Sorry to read about your issues but it's a well known E9X issue.
Have a Google and you'll see loads of instances of this.
The DME (engine ecu) sits in a box with a rubber grommet in the bottom. This in turn sits in a body cavity with it's own grommet in the bottom. This then gets blocked by road grime / leaves etc.. The cavity then fills with water and forces water into the ECU box, and corrodes / shorts the ecu. Main dealer replacement will be ~£1200 and they probably won't fix the blocked grommet issue.
I had the same on my 2005 330i and got a fresh / used ecu coded to match the old one by the guys at BW Chiptune (https://www.independentbmwspecialist.co.uk/). Nice lads and far far cheaper.
Good luck with the dealer good will...
Have a Google and you'll see loads of instances of this.
The DME (engine ecu) sits in a box with a rubber grommet in the bottom. This in turn sits in a body cavity with it's own grommet in the bottom. This then gets blocked by road grime / leaves etc.. The cavity then fills with water and forces water into the ECU box, and corrodes / shorts the ecu. Main dealer replacement will be ~£1200 and they probably won't fix the blocked grommet issue.
I had the same on my 2005 330i and got a fresh / used ecu coded to match the old one by the guys at BW Chiptune (https://www.independentbmwspecialist.co.uk/). Nice lads and far far cheaper.
Good luck with the dealer good will...
Me Alec said:
I'm unable to find the dedicated BMW page, so perhaps Admin could shift this to the right section …. my apologies.
In feb 2020 I bought a 335i Petrol engined Coupé on a 58 plate. It came from main dealer and I paid over the odds because I reckoned that with it's outstanding appearance, it's low mileage (55k), its Park Lane servicing through out its life and the fully supportive 12 month new car warranty, I could afford to have confidence.
Since purchase I've covered app.6000 miles, if that. A month ago I went to start it and there was a horrible rumbling noise and it wouldn't run. To shorten a boring story of unbelievable non-dealer incompetence, I ended up taking to where I should have gone in the first place, my nearest main dealer.
The upshot of the problem appears to be water ingression in what is referred to as the DME Box. I 'phoned the salesman from whom I bought the car, reminding him that he advised me that the previous owner had spent £4k on the car in Dec. 2019. He muttered something about the DME but that was about it, he's due to call me today. …….. bear in mind now that genuine beemer parts carry a 2 year warranty.
OK so the warranty has expired, but there are times in life when if we speak to people nicely, help may be forthcoming ……..
Now here's my question; when we consider the thought and planning that goes in to our modern cars, and from the question of niggling and expensive problems, if a DME Box is that fragile, would I be right in imagining that if it wasn't a factory sealed box, it would at least have a degree of permanent protection? Could I expect or at least hope, for some assistance, or have I got no realistic argument?
…….. and as a footnote to the otherwise unwary ~ when you have an interested party but a non-approved and supposed BMW engineer tell you that his research abilities in to engine management problems are the very equal of Main Dealers facilities, I'm here to tell you that that may not be the truth ~ the man may well be spouting a load of old bullocks.
If you have kept up the servicing with a BMW main dealer then you I would expect BMW to assist you with the cost of this. They did when the roof mechanism failed on my wife's car a few years back.In feb 2020 I bought a 335i Petrol engined Coupé on a 58 plate. It came from main dealer and I paid over the odds because I reckoned that with it's outstanding appearance, it's low mileage (55k), its Park Lane servicing through out its life and the fully supportive 12 month new car warranty, I could afford to have confidence.
Since purchase I've covered app.6000 miles, if that. A month ago I went to start it and there was a horrible rumbling noise and it wouldn't run. To shorten a boring story of unbelievable non-dealer incompetence, I ended up taking to where I should have gone in the first place, my nearest main dealer.
The upshot of the problem appears to be water ingression in what is referred to as the DME Box. I 'phoned the salesman from whom I bought the car, reminding him that he advised me that the previous owner had spent £4k on the car in Dec. 2019. He muttered something about the DME but that was about it, he's due to call me today. …….. bear in mind now that genuine beemer parts carry a 2 year warranty.
OK so the warranty has expired, but there are times in life when if we speak to people nicely, help may be forthcoming ……..
Now here's my question; when we consider the thought and planning that goes in to our modern cars, and from the question of niggling and expensive problems, if a DME Box is that fragile, would I be right in imagining that if it wasn't a factory sealed box, it would at least have a degree of permanent protection? Could I expect or at least hope, for some assistance, or have I got no realistic argument?
…….. and as a footnote to the otherwise unwary ~ when you have an interested party but a non-approved and supposed BMW engineer tell you that his research abilities in to engine management problems are the very equal of Main Dealers facilities, I'm here to tell you that that may not be the truth ~ the man may well be spouting a load of old bullocks.
Free parts but we paid for the labour. It roughly meant we went 50/50 on the job but it still cost me close to £1k.
Me Alec said:
…….. and as a footnote to the otherwise unwary ~ when you have an interested party but a non-approved and supposed BMW engineer tell you that his research abilities in to engine management problems are the very equal of Main Dealers facilities, I'm here to tell you that that may not be the truth ~ the man may well be spouting a load of old bullocks.
I think BMW Indys are like BMW Main Dealers - some are better than others! I'm lucky as I have an Indy in Hampshire who set up on his own 2 years ago after 15 years at Sytner and he is brilliant as he has worked on BMWs like mine since they were new!
I hope you get some joy with BMW but if not I'd rahter go to a good Indy who probably understands older models better anyway - there is a list of them on here that forum members have recommended.
Good luck anyway.
The story is now evolving;
I bought the car in Feb. '20 from Sytner Maidenhead. I paid good money for it but with 55k on the clock, and a 12 month New Car Warranty, I imagined that if Sytner had that much confidence in it, then so should I.
This morning I again 'phoned Sytner and the guy I spoke to sent me a copy of the warranty work which was carried out 18/11/19 and guess what ~ it was to replace the very came DME (ECU).
My initial 'phone call to my local Main Dealer concerning the problem was made 11/11/21 ~ just seven days before the *imagined* 2 year parts and labour warranty expired.
It is now my understanding that when a part is replaced under warranty, then that part carries no implied warranty of its own.
My argument remains in two parts and that when a fitted part is replaced under warranty, when there is a KNOWN problem of water ingression, why have BMW not addressed this problem before and made at least an attempt to give this unit adequate protection? That's the first aspect to this, and the second which I feel is even more compelling, is that in the two years of ownership, I've covered a mere 6000 miles - _ _ _
Now I am well aware that the stable door is open and that the horse has already bolted - so and unlike me, I'm eating humble pie and awaiting the response of my appealing to their christian side …….. we'll see what happens.
I bought the car in Feb. '20 from Sytner Maidenhead. I paid good money for it but with 55k on the clock, and a 12 month New Car Warranty, I imagined that if Sytner had that much confidence in it, then so should I.
This morning I again 'phoned Sytner and the guy I spoke to sent me a copy of the warranty work which was carried out 18/11/19 and guess what ~ it was to replace the very came DME (ECU).
My initial 'phone call to my local Main Dealer concerning the problem was made 11/11/21 ~ just seven days before the *imagined* 2 year parts and labour warranty expired.
It is now my understanding that when a part is replaced under warranty, then that part carries no implied warranty of its own.
My argument remains in two parts and that when a fitted part is replaced under warranty, when there is a KNOWN problem of water ingression, why have BMW not addressed this problem before and made at least an attempt to give this unit adequate protection? That's the first aspect to this, and the second which I feel is even more compelling, is that in the two years of ownership, I've covered a mere 6000 miles - _ _ _
Now I am well aware that the stable door is open and that the horse has already bolted - so and unlike me, I'm eating humble pie and awaiting the response of my appealing to their christian side …….. we'll see what happens.
Wow..
If you speak to BW the will say exactly the same...
The dealers will fleece you for a new ECU and coding but not fix the blocked drain issue, so you end up borking another ECU in short order!!
All the decent indys will change and code the ECU AND remove the lower grommet so you don't get the issue again.
Cut your loses and go to BW or a decent indy that can reflash a used ECU into your car..
If you speak to BW the will say exactly the same...
The dealers will fleece you for a new ECU and coding but not fix the blocked drain issue, so you end up borking another ECU in short order!!
All the decent indys will change and code the ECU AND remove the lower grommet so you don't get the issue again.
Cut your loses and go to BW or a decent indy that can reflash a used ECU into your car..
Me Alec said:
The story is now evolving;
This morning I again 'phoned Sytner and the guy I spoke to sent me a copy of the warranty work which was carried out 18/11/19 and guess what ~ it was to replace the very came DME (ECU).
My initial 'phone call to my local Main Dealer concerning the problem was made 11/11/21 ~ just seven days before the *imagined* 2 year parts and labour warranty expired.
It is now my understanding that when a part is replaced under warranty, then that part carries no implied warranty of its own.
If the genuine BMW part has a 2 year warranty, was fitted by a BMW main dealer and its failed within that time(even 1min before the 2 years is up) how do they have a leg to stand on about replacing it?This morning I again 'phoned Sytner and the guy I spoke to sent me a copy of the warranty work which was carried out 18/11/19 and guess what ~ it was to replace the very came DME (ECU).
My initial 'phone call to my local Main Dealer concerning the problem was made 11/11/21 ~ just seven days before the *imagined* 2 year parts and labour warranty expired.
It is now my understanding that when a part is replaced under warranty, then that part carries no implied warranty of its own.
tonyvid said:
If the genuine BMW part has a 2 year warranty, was fitted by a BMW main dealer and its failed within that time(even 1min before the 2 years is up) how do they have a leg to stand on about replacing it?
If I'm reading the thread correctly, the part was fitted under warranty, and I was under the impression* that warranty replacement parts did not have the benefit of the BMW Genuine Parts 2 year warranty...only parts you buy get the 2 year warranty?* based on being told by my local dealer that the warranty on my replacement EDC dampers was only until the end of my AUC warranty period.
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 16th December 17:08
daver1184 said:
Wow..
If you speak to BW the will say exactly the same...
The dealers will fleece you for a new ECU and coding but not fix the blocked drain issue, so you end up borking another ECU in short order!!
All the decent indys will change and code the ECU AND remove the lower grommet so you don't get the issue again.
Cut your loses and go to BW or a decent indy that can reflash a used ECU into your car..
I REALLY don't want to step outside main-dealership maintenance but, and for the reasons that you've given, I may have no choice.If you speak to BW the will say exactly the same...
The dealers will fleece you for a new ECU and coding but not fix the blocked drain issue, so you end up borking another ECU in short order!!
All the decent indys will change and code the ECU AND remove the lower grommet so you don't get the issue again.
Cut your loses and go to BW or a decent indy that can reflash a used ECU into your car..
What seems a disingenuous stance from Sytner BMW in the first place and subsequently, the BMW Warranty Dept. is that they fitted a replacement part with what must have been the certain knowledge that their actions had done nothing to reduce the risk of a repeat performance …….. am I, now going to be expected to replace a part of the car every 2years/6000 miles and at a cost in excess of £2,500?
My research abilities are not what they may be - so could anyone source or recommend an independent BMW specialist who's close enough to Norwich to make secondary transportation a realistic option?
Me Alec said:
I REALLY don't want to step outside main-dealership maintenance but, and for the reasons that you've given, I may have no choice.
What seems a disingenuous stance from Sytner BMW in the first place and subsequently, the BMW Warranty Dept. is that they fitted a replacement part with what must have been the certain knowledge that their actions had done nothing to reduce the risk of a repeat performance …….. am I, now going to be expected to replace a part of the car every 2years/6000 miles and at a cost in excess of £2,500?
My research abilities are not what they may be - so could anyone source or recommend an independent BMW specialist who's close enough to Norwich to make secondary transportation a realistic option?
How far are you prepared to travel, these guys come highly recommended.What seems a disingenuous stance from Sytner BMW in the first place and subsequently, the BMW Warranty Dept. is that they fitted a replacement part with what must have been the certain knowledge that their actions had done nothing to reduce the risk of a repeat performance …….. am I, now going to be expected to replace a part of the car every 2years/6000 miles and at a cost in excess of £2,500?
My research abilities are not what they may be - so could anyone source or recommend an independent BMW specialist who's close enough to Norwich to make secondary transportation a realistic option?
https://warnemotorsbury.co.uk/
Monkeylegend said:
How far are you prepared to travel, these guys come highly recommended.
https://warnemotorsbury.co.uk/
Thanks very much for that ~ I've 'phoned Warnes, spoken to a guy who agreed that it's a known problem and he assured me that with a replacement unit, further ingression of water, CAN be prevented. https://warnemotorsbury.co.uk/
For now, back to my main dealer ~ if they say 'Tough', then I'll take it elsewhere. If they are amenable and open to compromise, then when all has been sorted, it'll be a trip down to Bury-St-Edmunds and they can seal the unit.
…….. that's the current plan!
Quite a while back now so can't remember precisely, but when I had some work done at the main dealer they told me it was guaranteed for 2 years. Think it was an ABS sensor and the car was well out of warranty. I guess things could have changed but I'd pursue it with BMW UK.
If not, one major advantage of the indy I use is that parts like these can be refurbished at a much lower cost than new, and often guaranteed for life. Iirc my ABS ECU would have been £900+ for the part but the refub was nearer £300 including some other work.
You could see if yours can be fixed/rebuilt here https://www.ecutesting.com/
If not, one major advantage of the indy I use is that parts like these can be refurbished at a much lower cost than new, and often guaranteed for life. Iirc my ABS ECU would have been £900+ for the part but the refub was nearer £300 including some other work.
You could see if yours can be fixed/rebuilt here https://www.ecutesting.com/
@Touring442
Thank you very much for that …….. it's my understanding that it isn't so much the presence of water, more that it's the damage that it's done and the entire unit needs to be replaced …….. at £1200+ not even BMW would have the neck to charge that much for a plastic box ~ they wouldn't, would they?
I owe the Main dealers for 2 1/2 hours of their time doing diagnostics and tracing the problem - which is about £250. They've quoted £2,100 to supply the unit, fit it and test and that includes the diagnostics time. An Independent who claims to know as much as the Main Dealers has quoted £1500 to carry out the same repair and bear in mind now that I will still have to pay for the diagnostics time.
As the existing unit was previously replaced under warranty, this unit doesn't carry the usual 2 year warranty. If I have the Main Dealer replace the unit and pay for it, I will get the benefit of a full BMW warranty, and that is the way that I intend going …….. I've no intention of ever selling the car and though the repair is costly and irritating, the most expensive path, seems to me, to be the most sensible.
I really am very grateful for those who've taken the trouble to respond.
Thank you very much for that …….. it's my understanding that it isn't so much the presence of water, more that it's the damage that it's done and the entire unit needs to be replaced …….. at £1200+ not even BMW would have the neck to charge that much for a plastic box ~ they wouldn't, would they?
I owe the Main dealers for 2 1/2 hours of their time doing diagnostics and tracing the problem - which is about £250. They've quoted £2,100 to supply the unit, fit it and test and that includes the diagnostics time. An Independent who claims to know as much as the Main Dealers has quoted £1500 to carry out the same repair and bear in mind now that I will still have to pay for the diagnostics time.
As the existing unit was previously replaced under warranty, this unit doesn't carry the usual 2 year warranty. If I have the Main Dealer replace the unit and pay for it, I will get the benefit of a full BMW warranty, and that is the way that I intend going …….. I've no intention of ever selling the car and though the repair is costly and irritating, the most expensive path, seems to me, to be the most sensible.
I really am very grateful for those who've taken the trouble to respond.
Me Alec said:
@Touring442
Thank you very much for that …….. it's my understanding that it isn't so much the presence of water, more that it's the damage that it's done and the entire unit needs to be replaced …….. at £1200+ not even BMW would have the neck to charge that much for a plastic box ~ they wouldn't, would they?
I owe the Main dealers for 2 1/2 hours of their time doing diagnostics and tracing the problem - which is about £250. They've quoted £2,100 to supply the unit, fit it and test and that includes the diagnostics time. An Independent who claims to know as much as the Main Dealers has quoted £1500 to carry out the same repair and bear in mind now that I will still have to pay for the diagnostics time.
As the existing unit was previously replaced under warranty, this unit doesn't carry the usual 2 year warranty. If I have the Main Dealer replace the unit and pay for it, I will get the benefit of a full BMW warranty, and that is the way that I intend going …….. I've no intention of ever selling the car and though the repair is costly and irritating, the most expensive path, seems to me, to be the most sensible.
I really am very grateful for those who've taken the trouble to respond.
Even if you do pay for it, for the 2 year warranty, please check that another blockage that causes flooding of the ECU is actually covered in the warranty...and it's not just covering failure of the ECU.Thank you very much for that …….. it's my understanding that it isn't so much the presence of water, more that it's the damage that it's done and the entire unit needs to be replaced …….. at £1200+ not even BMW would have the neck to charge that much for a plastic box ~ they wouldn't, would they?
I owe the Main dealers for 2 1/2 hours of their time doing diagnostics and tracing the problem - which is about £250. They've quoted £2,100 to supply the unit, fit it and test and that includes the diagnostics time. An Independent who claims to know as much as the Main Dealers has quoted £1500 to carry out the same repair and bear in mind now that I will still have to pay for the diagnostics time.
As the existing unit was previously replaced under warranty, this unit doesn't carry the usual 2 year warranty. If I have the Main Dealer replace the unit and pay for it, I will get the benefit of a full BMW warranty, and that is the way that I intend going …….. I've no intention of ever selling the car and though the repair is costly and irritating, the most expensive path, seems to me, to be the most sensible.
I really am very grateful for those who've taken the trouble to respond.
Why not try for a goodwilll gesture from the dealer- after all the part is less than 2yrs old . Its the quality of the work done in replacing it looks like the problem Have a go at BMW customer care about the work quality- would be interesting to test this in small claims court. I's start off saying would pay existing diagnostic fees only . Maybe talk to trading standards before you ring them then play hard ball. Good luck for supposedly a quality AUC you should have to stand that cost.
mmm-five said:
Even if you do pay for it, for the 2 year warranty, please check that another blockage that causes flooding of the ECU is actually covered in the warranty...and it's not just covering failure of the ECU.
Good point and thank you. My wife has a horse. If there's an insurance claim on a leg, then that leg is never again covered by insurance ~ and if the horse is covered for Loss Of Use and it dies, it would seem that the Insurance Companies consider that a dead horse is of some use after all.twokcc said:
Why not try for a goodwilll gesture from the dealer- after all the part is less than 2yrs old . Its the quality of the work done in replacing it looks like the problem Have a go at BMW customer care about the work quality- would be interesting to test this in small claims court. I's start off saying would pay existing diagnostic fees only . Maybe talk to trading standards before you ring them then play hard ball. Good luck for supposedly a quality AUC you should have to stand that cost.
I've exhausted the Good Will, at least through the offices of the Main Dealer (MD) concerned. I've been in touch with the Warranty Dept. and I've doubted what I've been told …….. never a good idea if you're hoping to keep someone on board. The conversation has now reached the point of the ridiculous ~ it seems that this MD says that the car was mis-diagnosed previously and by a 'retailer' and that it wasn't previously an ingression of water, in which case, it would seem to me that if the ECU box has a second string to it's failure-bow, then this is a separate claim in that it's a failed-part which has failed for another reason …….. to be truthful, I CBA.
Me Alec said:
The conversation has now reached the point of the ridiculous ~ it seems that this MD says that the car was mis-diagnosed previously and by a 'retailer' and that it wasn't previously an ingression of water, in which case, it would seem to me that if the ECU box has a second string to it's failure-bow, then this is a separate claim in that it's a failed-part which has failed for another reason …….. to be truthful, I CBA.
This is what they do, fob you off until you CBA.And it works most of the time.
They'll do it until someone gets serious with independent inspections, legal action etc..
But very few people take it that far, and these dealers know this.
My recent experience with a BMW product was the worse I've ever experienced in my motoring lifetime.
They just pulled down the shutters and ignored me, even though it was very clear I had a faulty product.
BMW??
Never again in my lifetime...
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff