E46 M3 to Z4 3.0si
Discussion
First world problems.
But humour me. Wondering if anyone has gone from an E46 M3 to a Z4 3.0si?
Currently got an E46 which I love, but always fancy a change 🤯. Yes it’s an S54 and it’s technically quicker and yes it has hydraulic steering but the numbers don’t have a lot in it. Paired with cheaper running costs, and it’s rarity, I’m thinking it might be the thinking man’s option?
Thoughts?
But humour me. Wondering if anyone has gone from an E46 M3 to a Z4 3.0si?
Currently got an E46 which I love, but always fancy a change 🤯. Yes it’s an S54 and it’s technically quicker and yes it has hydraulic steering but the numbers don’t have a lot in it. Paired with cheaper running costs, and it’s rarity, I’m thinking it might be the thinking man’s option?
Thoughts?
Well in 2019 I sort of did the opposite as I went from a 3.0Si Z4C to a Z4MC!
The EPAS isn't terrible, but HPAS on the M definitely has more feel, and the M has an LSD. But binning run-flat tyres reportedly improves the 3.0Si no end, although I didn't try that.
Performance-wise there isn't a massive difference as the N52 engine pulls strongly to the 7,000rpm red-line and will get close to 3 figures in third gear, but I had an M itch to scratch and those last few thousand revs in the M are where the magic happens!
Running costs are completely different but I knew that when I bought it.
I bought the M with my heart, but head would say 3.0Si as it's about 80% of the car for 50% of the money.
But I'd suggest trying if you can one before you decide.
The EPAS isn't terrible, but HPAS on the M definitely has more feel, and the M has an LSD. But binning run-flat tyres reportedly improves the 3.0Si no end, although I didn't try that.
Performance-wise there isn't a massive difference as the N52 engine pulls strongly to the 7,000rpm red-line and will get close to 3 figures in third gear, but I had an M itch to scratch and those last few thousand revs in the M are where the magic happens!
Running costs are completely different but I knew that when I bought it.
I bought the M with my heart, but head would say 3.0Si as it's about 80% of the car for 50% of the money.
But I'd suggest trying if you can one before you decide.
Had a 3.0 Z4 for my wife a few years ago, felt quite different to my e46 M3. Main comparisons for me were:
Z4 Suspension was overly harsh but car never felt that grippy, swapped from runflats but didn't help that much with ride quality. Always felt slightly nervous through corners despite Hunter 4WLA and quality tyres.
Sitting so far back from the front axle it felt like there was a delay in turning the wheel and anything happening.
Couldn't get on with the electric PAS. At all.
Throttle response felt slow.
Build quality was lacking. Trim constantly coming loose, rattles and squeaks which couldn't be sorted. Several big ticket items failed in the space of the 18 months we had it.
Wasn't impressed with it for what it's intended use was never mind as a competitor to the e46.
Z4 Suspension was overly harsh but car never felt that grippy, swapped from runflats but didn't help that much with ride quality. Always felt slightly nervous through corners despite Hunter 4WLA and quality tyres.
Sitting so far back from the front axle it felt like there was a delay in turning the wheel and anything happening.
Couldn't get on with the electric PAS. At all.
Throttle response felt slow.
Build quality was lacking. Trim constantly coming loose, rattles and squeaks which couldn't be sorted. Several big ticket items failed in the space of the 18 months we had it.
Wasn't impressed with it for what it's intended use was never mind as a competitor to the e46.
I ran a 330Ci and a Z4M together. I still have the Zed but I loved the engine in the 330Ci. Super smooth lovely and plenty of torque without the rawness of the ///M 3.2L. I liked friends 3.0 Zeds but the facelifts have much better sound deadening in the panels and feel more solid to my ears. You won't be disappointed with the 3.0 engine.
Herr Schnell said:
Had a 3.0 Z4 for my wife a few years ago, felt quite different to my e46 M3. Main comparisons for me were:
Z4 Suspension was overly harsh but car never felt that grippy, swapped from runflats but didn't help that much with ride quality. Always felt slightly nervous through corners despite Hunter 4WLA and quality tyres.
Sitting so far back from the front axle it felt like there was a delay in turning the wheel and anything happening.
Couldn't get on with the electric PAS. At all.
Throttle response felt slow.
Build quality was lacking. Trim constantly coming loose, rattles and squeaks which couldn't be sorted. Several big ticket items failed in the space of the 18 months we had it.
Wasn't impressed with it for what it's intended use was never mind as a competitor to the e46.
Hmm. I’d heard the steering wasn’t great…Z4 Suspension was overly harsh but car never felt that grippy, swapped from runflats but didn't help that much with ride quality. Always felt slightly nervous through corners despite Hunter 4WLA and quality tyres.
Sitting so far back from the front axle it felt like there was a delay in turning the wheel and anything happening.
Couldn't get on with the electric PAS. At all.
Throttle response felt slow.
Build quality was lacking. Trim constantly coming loose, rattles and squeaks which couldn't be sorted. Several big ticket items failed in the space of the 18 months we had it.
Wasn't impressed with it for what it's intended use was never mind as a competitor to the e46.
…how did you find the engine?
a340driver said:
You won't be disappointed with the 3.0 engine.
I echo this too. I went from a E92 M3 to a E90 330i, and I didn't really miss the M3 much at all. I've also had a Z4M as well. The N52 engine is special I reckon, and it is just so smooth and free revving. I'm pleased that I got the opportunity to experience it for sure.
I recon you’d miss the engine. The noise and power delivery is very different to the N52. I’ve had several, and while they are very smooth, I always found the power delivery a bit disappointing.
Perforce wise you’re probably right, currently have a Z4M and in normal driving a 330i won’t be much slower. The current performance turbos leave both for dead unless you’re really on it anyway.
Perforce wise you’re probably right, currently have a Z4M and in normal driving a 330i won’t be much slower. The current performance turbos leave both for dead unless you’re really on it anyway.
I owned a Z4 Coupe and a E36 M3 at the same time and have driven the E46 M3 and the Z4M coupe so hopefully can add some (potentially) useful insight.
The short answer is going to be ‘it depends on what you value in a car’. The M3 is ultimately the better drivers car but 95% of the time there is little in it (on the road) and the pay off is that special car feeling you get with the Z4.
The M cars are icons and the number of people who would come up to me and talk about the car were far higher than the Z4. The market values also reflect this with the E46M much higher than the Z4, so in the eyes of many the answer is very clear cut in favour of the E46 but on the flip side, you can get a mint Z4 for the price of a leggy E46.
The Z4 Coupe feels special before you turn the key, whereas the M3 feels like an old 318 with a few options kicked. The Z4 has the cosy cabin, the low seating position, the view over the bonnet, the view of the arches in the mirrors. It also has the looks.
Engine wise, they are both great engines, they both pull to the limiter in the way that all the best NA engines do. The S54 has the legs on the Z4 but only in the last 2k ish of RPM range so it going to depend on how you drive. If you regularly take the M3 to the limiter, your going to miss the M engine. However on the road, your into naughty speeds doing it, so that might be less often than you think.
While the clutch and gear shift are decent on the Z4 (the Z4M gearshift is dire, not driven a manual E46), the suspension is stiff which will stop you pressing on truly bumpy roads and the steering is a bit rubbish although not awful (you can switch to a hydraulic rack but its not a cheap mod). The M3 is just better developed and when you throw in things like the LSD, when you really push (think track day or full send on a remote alpine pass) it just hooks up.
All depends on the use case. Right now I still own the Z4 and not the M3. (Although thinking about getting another)
The short answer is going to be ‘it depends on what you value in a car’. The M3 is ultimately the better drivers car but 95% of the time there is little in it (on the road) and the pay off is that special car feeling you get with the Z4.
The M cars are icons and the number of people who would come up to me and talk about the car were far higher than the Z4. The market values also reflect this with the E46M much higher than the Z4, so in the eyes of many the answer is very clear cut in favour of the E46 but on the flip side, you can get a mint Z4 for the price of a leggy E46.
The Z4 Coupe feels special before you turn the key, whereas the M3 feels like an old 318 with a few options kicked. The Z4 has the cosy cabin, the low seating position, the view over the bonnet, the view of the arches in the mirrors. It also has the looks.
Engine wise, they are both great engines, they both pull to the limiter in the way that all the best NA engines do. The S54 has the legs on the Z4 but only in the last 2k ish of RPM range so it going to depend on how you drive. If you regularly take the M3 to the limiter, your going to miss the M engine. However on the road, your into naughty speeds doing it, so that might be less often than you think.
While the clutch and gear shift are decent on the Z4 (the Z4M gearshift is dire, not driven a manual E46), the suspension is stiff which will stop you pressing on truly bumpy roads and the steering is a bit rubbish although not awful (you can switch to a hydraulic rack but its not a cheap mod). The M3 is just better developed and when you throw in things like the LSD, when you really push (think track day or full send on a remote alpine pass) it just hooks up.
All depends on the use case. Right now I still own the Z4 and not the M3. (Although thinking about getting another)
Thanks Steven, nothing unexpected in your overview. I think if money is no object, it's a no brainer. However, for most that are not on track a lot, the 3L Z might be more special, with more value. If you really value that engine, it may be worth going for E46 M3 albeit with less special feeling.
I drive a 640d GC as my daily car and do 20k + miles each year. Big comfy and economical.
I also have a Z4 Coupe and at low speed it's a bit of a pig to drive with a horrible gear change from 1st to 2nd. However after that it's a lovely car to drive and puts a grin on your face as it hits 5k rpm.
I like the way it drives and the suspension although standard has been aligned to Z4M settings and I think it feels pretty good but then again compared to the big bus that the 640 is that might be why.
As others have said the interior build quality is poor with all sorts of squeaks and rattles but these are only really apparent at low speed. Talking to the guy who services my 640 he said that the Z4's all did it from new so unless it's a real issue just live with them.
I also have a Z4 Coupe and at low speed it's a bit of a pig to drive with a horrible gear change from 1st to 2nd. However after that it's a lovely car to drive and puts a grin on your face as it hits 5k rpm.
I like the way it drives and the suspension although standard has been aligned to Z4M settings and I think it feels pretty good but then again compared to the big bus that the 640 is that might be why.
As others have said the interior build quality is poor with all sorts of squeaks and rattles but these are only really apparent at low speed. Talking to the guy who services my 640 he said that the Z4's all did it from new so unless it's a real issue just live with them.
Matt_E46 said:
Hmm. I’d heard the steering wasn’t great…
…how did you find the engine?
It's not just the lack of feel it seemed to wander and occasionally weight up at random for no particular reason.…how did you find the engine?
Engine was fine. Smooth, torquey and probably more than the chassis can cope with. Lacks the character of the S54 though and I'm not sure I agree with the 80% of the performance type comments but I suppose that depends on the driver as much as the engine.
Seemed to like eating throttle position and O2 sensors regularly.
Edited by Herr Schnell on Saturday 10th September 21:53
I'm assuming you mean the Coupe rather than the Roadster?
I echo a lot of what has been said.
Mine (Roadster) is still on the factory fit Bridgestone RFTs. Ride is not good and it's very skittish. Not very confidence inspiring. I'm hoping a switch to non RFT (prob Michelin Pilot Sport) will help.
Steering, for me a bit of a weak point. Not really any feel and if used back to back with a normal hydraulic set up, it always feels a bit weird when you jump back in. When we had the hot weather recently, I was driving the Z4 exclusively every day and got used to it so didn't notice as much. Sport button (weights it up somewhat) helps. As soon as I gt back into the E91 (pre-LCI with HPAS), the difference was very apparent.
Interior...it's clean, it's simple but a bit boring and yes...rattly. It's worth bearing in mind that the Z4 is actually quite low to get into. You really notice the difference when compared to a normal E46 for example.
N52 engine is very nice when on song. Really likes to rev to the red line and sounds fantastic. I find this N52K (with the black top) smoother than the silver top N52s in my 630i and 330i. Throttle response is sharper also, but I presume it has been mapped slightly different for the Z4 (iirc Sport button sharpens this also)?
I suspect an E46 M3 (manual) will always be considered a high point for BMW and values will reflect this. The Z4 3.0Si Coupe is much more of a cult classic.
I echo a lot of what has been said.
Mine (Roadster) is still on the factory fit Bridgestone RFTs. Ride is not good and it's very skittish. Not very confidence inspiring. I'm hoping a switch to non RFT (prob Michelin Pilot Sport) will help.
Steering, for me a bit of a weak point. Not really any feel and if used back to back with a normal hydraulic set up, it always feels a bit weird when you jump back in. When we had the hot weather recently, I was driving the Z4 exclusively every day and got used to it so didn't notice as much. Sport button (weights it up somewhat) helps. As soon as I gt back into the E91 (pre-LCI with HPAS), the difference was very apparent.
Interior...it's clean, it's simple but a bit boring and yes...rattly. It's worth bearing in mind that the Z4 is actually quite low to get into. You really notice the difference when compared to a normal E46 for example.
N52 engine is very nice when on song. Really likes to rev to the red line and sounds fantastic. I find this N52K (with the black top) smoother than the silver top N52s in my 630i and 330i. Throttle response is sharper also, but I presume it has been mapped slightly different for the Z4 (iirc Sport button sharpens this also)?
I suspect an E46 M3 (manual) will always be considered a high point for BMW and values will reflect this. The Z4 3.0Si Coupe is much more of a cult classic.
Edited by g3org3y on Saturday 10th September 18:53
cerb4.5lee said:
I echo this too.
I went from a E92 M3 to a E90 330i, and I didn't really miss the M3 much at all. I've also had a Z4M as well. The N52 engine is special I reckon, and it is just so smooth and free revving. I'm pleased that I got the opportunity to experience it for sure.
I own both an E90 M3 and E46 330 and while they are both fantastic engines the S65 is in a different league imo. I went from a E92 M3 to a E90 330i, and I didn't really miss the M3 much at all. I've also had a Z4M as well. The N52 engine is special I reckon, and it is just so smooth and free revving. I'm pleased that I got the opportunity to experience it for sure.
Some interesting thoughts here.
The 1st to 2nd gearchange on my 2nd 3.0Si was much better after I had the gearbox fluid replaced and the Clutch Delay Valve removed.
My first 3.0Si had the black top engine, my second and my current 330i have the silver top and I really didn't notice any difference in how they drove.
Power delivery is really linear, but they still happily rev to the red line.
Then I took my MC out this morning. Regardless of the interior trim and fittings as soon as I got in it just felt so different to a 3 Series. An E46 M3 isn't going to feel much different to any other E46 - until you fire up the engine, and as I got reminded this morning as soon as it is running you just know it is something special.
Then once it was properly warmed up I could let rip. After 6,000 rpm it just flies which is one of the main differences compared to the N52, and made me realise why I decided the higher running costs were worth paying!
And MCs still seem cheaper than E46 M3s for some reason.
The 1st to 2nd gearchange on my 2nd 3.0Si was much better after I had the gearbox fluid replaced and the Clutch Delay Valve removed.
My first 3.0Si had the black top engine, my second and my current 330i have the silver top and I really didn't notice any difference in how they drove.
Power delivery is really linear, but they still happily rev to the red line.
Then I took my MC out this morning. Regardless of the interior trim and fittings as soon as I got in it just felt so different to a 3 Series. An E46 M3 isn't going to feel much different to any other E46 - until you fire up the engine, and as I got reminded this morning as soon as it is running you just know it is something special.
Then once it was properly warmed up I could let rip. After 6,000 rpm it just flies which is one of the main differences compared to the N52, and made me realise why I decided the higher running costs were worth paying!
And MCs still seem cheaper than E46 M3s for some reason.
zek said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I echo this too.
I went from a E92 M3 to a E90 330i, and I didn't really miss the M3 much at all. I've also had a Z4M as well. The N52 engine is special I reckon, and it is just so smooth and free revving. I'm pleased that I got the opportunity to experience it for sure.
I own both an E90 M3 and E46 330 and while they are both fantastic engines the S65 is in a different league imo. I went from a E92 M3 to a E90 330i, and I didn't really miss the M3 much at all. I've also had a Z4M as well. The N52 engine is special I reckon, and it is just so smooth and free revving. I'm pleased that I got the opportunity to experience it for sure.
I used to really dislike how sluggish the S65 was at times if you were in the wrong gear, plus the E92 M3 felt its 1650kg weight a lot of the time for me as well.
I was chatting to one of my friends about the E92 M3 yesterday, and she absolutely loved it when she drove it. Whereas I also loved it on the test drive, however I soon went of it when I used it everyday though. Its flaws started to grate quickly for me.
I have a E46 M3 Manual and a Z4MC and they are so different in the characteristics,the ZM needs to be reved more and the gear change worked harder to get there, I certainly wouldn't run one as a daily where as the M3 has the power but can be driven easier so as said the Z4 3.0Si is probably the better if your using it as a daily.
CRA1G said:
I have a E46 M3 Manual and a Z4MC and they are so different in the characteristics,the ZM needs to be reved more and the gear change worked harder to get there, I certainly wouldn't run one as a daily where as the M3 has the power but can be driven easier so as said the Z4 3.0Si is probably the better if your using it as a daily.
Not sure I understand, as both have the S54 engine, and if anything the Z4M is lighter than an E46 M3, so should be slightly faster?Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff