X5 - Man maths required
Discussion
Hello all,
I have concluded that I want to purchase an X5 this summer and would welcome some opinions.
I currently own an e34 525I (which is kept overseas) and an e46 330i (obnoxiously modified and very tired). I enjoy the ownership of old BMWs but for the imminent future I require something a bit more practical, rust free and most importantly, I need to expect it to get me to my destination - I currently borrow my OH's ford fiesta if I actually need to arrive on time, which is clearly somewhat undesirable.
I have up to 12k to spend but it's hard to tell where to draw the line. My preference would be to spend £3k on a nice e53 and keep the rest of the money in a slush fund. I don't quite see the point in buying the most modern one I can get hold of simply for the sake of fuel economy, but unless I got one at the cheaper end of the market I'm not sure I could stomach 20MPG for a V8.
So where do we think the sweet spot is in terms of price/age/mileage/engine for an X5?
I am currently weighing up buying up a 2005, 105000 mile V8 for £3k or a 2012 60,000 mile 3.0d for £11k, and everything in between.
I have concluded that I want to purchase an X5 this summer and would welcome some opinions.
I currently own an e34 525I (which is kept overseas) and an e46 330i (obnoxiously modified and very tired). I enjoy the ownership of old BMWs but for the imminent future I require something a bit more practical, rust free and most importantly, I need to expect it to get me to my destination - I currently borrow my OH's ford fiesta if I actually need to arrive on time, which is clearly somewhat undesirable.
I have up to 12k to spend but it's hard to tell where to draw the line. My preference would be to spend £3k on a nice e53 and keep the rest of the money in a slush fund. I don't quite see the point in buying the most modern one I can get hold of simply for the sake of fuel economy, but unless I got one at the cheaper end of the market I'm not sure I could stomach 20MPG for a V8.
So where do we think the sweet spot is in terms of price/age/mileage/engine for an X5?
I am currently weighing up buying up a 2005, 105000 mile V8 for £3k or a 2012 60,000 mile 3.0d for £11k, and everything in between.
Funky Squirrel said:
Always the v8! Less mpg but also less repairs.
Isn't the N63 in the E70 known for being rubbish?I like the E53 but they are old cars now. Petrol E70's are thin on the ground (and quite expensive - //M aside).
If you really have no other criteria than an X5 badge on the back I'd be looking at an M57 engine-d E70. The replacement N57 isn't exactly the most reliable (ironic considering I have two E70's parked outside and the M57's the one with the dead engine!).
...but if you really want man-maths the X5M sometimes come up privately for sub-£10k, and share an engine with an F10 M5...
I had a 2004 E53 X5 4.8iS back in 2010, and for me personally they suit the 30d engine better. Don't get me wrong the 4.8 V8 sounds glorious, but 12mpg on my commute got frustrating very quickly though. So I generally tend to recommend the diesel now. So much so that I'm actually in a 2024 X5 40d now as well.
cerb4.5lee said:
I had a 2004 E53 X5 4.8iS back in 2010, and for me personally they suit the 30d engine better. Don't get me wrong the 4.8 V8 sounds glorious, but 12mpg on my commute got frustrating very quickly though. So I generally tend to recommend the diesel now. So much so that I'm actually in a 2024 X5 40d now as well.
12mpg!?! What sort of commute was that?I would be looking at the 4.4i, perhaps naively expecting 20-22mpg combined? (I live in the countryside, no traffic less sheep)
2005, 105000 mile V8 for £3k:
E53 is an acknowledged design classic, by Frank Stephenson of McLaren fame no less.
E53 is eminently DIY-able and spares are out there, it's the best time to own one as loads will be about breaking, and if you had the space a spares cars isn't a ridiculous idea.
Diesel is dead, expect more and more restrictions on your ability to drive into towns and cities.
Petrol V8's are nice, even bad ones.
The knowledge of the failure points on the M62 V8 are well known and you could have the valley pipe and water pump changed as a precaution on purchase.
Ditto the gearbox.
Now the big selling point.
No depreciation, a good one will always be worth that and frankly I think they will appreciate as they become more recognised as the E39 has become.
2012 60,000 mile 3.0d for £11k
If that's the last of the E70 they were never a 'good' looking car, the F15 is a far better looking vehicle.
Either way, less DIY-able and still some items will tax a specialist.
Diesel is dead, expect more and more restrictions on your ability to drive into towns and cities.
Depreciation, your £11k-Diesel-SUV-that-isn't-a-Range-Rover will haemorrhage money and be worth £3k in 3 years.
The problem with SUV's is that new and nearly new they are status symbols, when they are older they become either just a car or a lifestyle choice.
15 year old SUV's are in that unhappy valley where Poundland Gangsters drive them as status symbols and taint everyone else by association, even the old money owner who may have just bought one new and just kept it. The price then plummets in direct correlation to the number of them with home tinted windows and 3D number plates.
It will never be an 'interesting neo-classic' in the way that the E53 will be because it isn't the first, it broke no new ground.
The E70 is the awkward second album, the F15 is the return to form.
Don't buy 'Harvest Ridge', buy 'Tubular Bells' instead.
Edited to add:
Critically 'Ommadawn' was Mike Oldfield's best work, to torture my X5 analogy further the F15 model, but everyone still loves 'Tubular Bells'.
E53 is an acknowledged design classic, by Frank Stephenson of McLaren fame no less.
E53 is eminently DIY-able and spares are out there, it's the best time to own one as loads will be about breaking, and if you had the space a spares cars isn't a ridiculous idea.
Diesel is dead, expect more and more restrictions on your ability to drive into towns and cities.
Petrol V8's are nice, even bad ones.
The knowledge of the failure points on the M62 V8 are well known and you could have the valley pipe and water pump changed as a precaution on purchase.
Ditto the gearbox.
Now the big selling point.
No depreciation, a good one will always be worth that and frankly I think they will appreciate as they become more recognised as the E39 has become.
2012 60,000 mile 3.0d for £11k
If that's the last of the E70 they were never a 'good' looking car, the F15 is a far better looking vehicle.
Either way, less DIY-able and still some items will tax a specialist.
Diesel is dead, expect more and more restrictions on your ability to drive into towns and cities.
Depreciation, your £11k-Diesel-SUV-that-isn't-a-Range-Rover will haemorrhage money and be worth £3k in 3 years.
The problem with SUV's is that new and nearly new they are status symbols, when they are older they become either just a car or a lifestyle choice.
15 year old SUV's are in that unhappy valley where Poundland Gangsters drive them as status symbols and taint everyone else by association, even the old money owner who may have just bought one new and just kept it. The price then plummets in direct correlation to the number of them with home tinted windows and 3D number plates.
It will never be an 'interesting neo-classic' in the way that the E53 will be because it isn't the first, it broke no new ground.
The E70 is the awkward second album, the F15 is the return to form.
Don't buy 'Harvest Ridge', buy 'Tubular Bells' instead.
Edited to add:
Critically 'Ommadawn' was Mike Oldfield's best work, to torture my X5 analogy further the F15 model, but everyone still loves 'Tubular Bells'.
Edited by Stick Legs on Sunday 11th May 15:51
A500leroy said:
Reliable or BMW. Pick one.
If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
I think I've been pretty clear that I'm looking for the best way of spending my money on an X5 that offers the highest chance of it working as advertised for up to a year, and you can also rest assured that if you advise I buy a particular model and it turns out to be a lemon, I won't come seeking revenge on your internet personality...If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
If I wanted a Toyota I'd just go buy one without worrying about it
matthias73 said:
12mpg!?! What sort of commute was that?
I would be looking at the 4.4i, perhaps naively expecting 20-22mpg combined? (I live in the countryside, no traffic less sheep)
It was a 22 mile rural commute each way, and I just couldn't resist getting on the throttle to listen to the V8! I would be looking at the 4.4i, perhaps naively expecting 20-22mpg combined? (I live in the countryside, no traffic less sheep)
Even sat at 55mph on long runs I never saw anymore than 20mpg out of it. It was a right thirsty sod! It made my Cerbera at the time seen very frugal in comparison for sure.
cerb4.5lee said:
It was a 22 mile rural commute each way, and I just couldn't resist getting on the throttle to listen to the V8!
Even sat at 55mph on long runs I never saw anymore than 20mpg out of it. It was a right thirsty sod! It made my Cerbera at the time seen very frugal in comparison for sure.
ah, yes. I cannot rule out that I won't have the same issue with my right foot...Even sat at 55mph on long runs I never saw anymore than 20mpg out of it. It was a right thirsty sod! It made my Cerbera at the time seen very frugal in comparison for sure.
A500leroy said:
Reliable or BMW. Pick one.
If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
Had both. Preferred the X5.If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
Had two e53s, didn't miss a beat in 12 years, apart from two MAF sensors which were cheap and easily replaced. Plus the usual control arm stuff. And there's the door handle frame issue of course. Went through 3 of those IIRC, one was cheap Chinese crap though.
3.0d manual face-lift is the sweet spot for me. Does 33mpg if thrashed, can be 50+ on a run.
I did get tired of the size and weight of them though, prefer a hatchback as a daily these days. The steering is particularly heavy, the suspension very firm, and the bonnet latch seizes.
Edited by G Thang on Sunday 11th May 16:43
A500leroy said:
Reliable or BMW. Pick one.
If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
Amen!If it's reliable you need a Toyota.
Old X5's are generally sh*t. The original (E53?) was sort of alright 10-20 years ago but shagged autoboxes, diffs, door handles and all the usual old BMW dramas. Oil leaks, ABS pumps yadayadayada. Like a late 90's 5 Series but even worse.
The second gen one....Christ. I have friends who own those and the size of the bills make my ring twitch. Apart from the well known 3.0d crank bearing failure there are the inevitable BMW oil leaks and minor things like the front propshaft breaking away and smashing the sump. One of of these sh*tboxes needed a new cam cover to cure an oil leak. 60,000 miles from new and it took half a day to get the injectors out. The bill was about a grand.
They aren't even that nice to drive. You can surely do better. Not a Merc either.
Having owned an E53 4.8is LCI and an E70 3.0i pre LCI I would suggest the E53 as being the simplest car and therefore the cheapest to run. While the E53 is quite small these days and the E70 a much more comfortable place to be, the cheap/sticky interior plastics, electric parking brake and other potential module woes on the E70 were underwhelming. Plus the 4.8 sounded glorious on the E53 
I would avoid diesels too, BMW only really know how to build a straight 6 petrol.
I would avoid diesels too, BMW only really know how to build a straight 6 petrol.drmotorsport said:
Having owned an E53 4.8is LCI and an E70 3.0i pre LCI I would suggest the E53 as being the simplest car and therefore the cheapest to run. While the E53 is quite small these days and the E70 a much more comfortable place to be, the cheap/sticky interior plastics, electric parking brake and other potential module woes on the E70 were underwhelming. Plus the 4.8 sounded glorious on the E53 I would avoid diesels too, BMW only really know how to build a straight 6 petrol.
I can't agree with that from experience having had an E90 330d for over a 150k miles, and a F13 640d for 70k miles. Plus I'm currently in a 2024 X5 40d now as well. I would avoid diesels too, BMW only really know how to build a straight 6 petrol.If used for distance work they make a lot of sense for me, and I personally wouldn't use a diesel for a local runabout(many do though), because in my opinion that isn't what they're best at.
I've also had a Z4M/E90 330i, and I'm currently in an F82 M4, so I do like BMW's straight 6 petrols as well don't get me wrong.
helix403 said:
I disagree with this comment too re BMW diesels. The M57 for example. Reliable and lots of torque.
Yes and I'll still never forget when I first had a go in the 2006 E90 330d auto back in 2006. I stuck my foot down and I couldn't believe how quick it felt at the time. I had the Cerbera back then too, so I was used to a fairly quick car, but the 330d blew me away for sure. I bought a 2006 E90 330i auto a few years later, and I wished I hadn't in some ways, because I personally didn't think that it was actually as good overall as the 330d was for me in comparison.
So I have listened to you all and made my decision, thank you.
I ruled out e70s due to maintenance costs and actually, I'm not a fan of that era car. Would have to be newer (out of budget) or older (e53).
I ruled out V8s due to 14mpg - I could do that for a short period but I don't know if me and my wife could stomach a winter trips to the alps fueling at 2 euros a litre petrol at 14mpg - would seem a little insane, as I'm not a billionaire.
I was tempted initially to find a well looked after 3.0 petrol at the £3000 range and deal with the likely issues and costs. The upshot of this would have been that I'd have a spare engine for my e46, which I will be keeping regardless. However I decided that faffing around with two old sheds would be a good way to fall out of love with motoring so I should probably get something in exceptional condition.
So I have put a deposit down on the holy grail e53. It's a 3.0 diesel, 1 owner from new, 31,000 miles and immaculate. I note from MOT history it could do with some suspension work but when it literally looks brand new, I'm happy to deal with that. £10,000 was towards the top of my budget, and due to the age I expect to pay another £2000 immediately to pre-emptively deal with known issues. I will then need to spend another £1000 on steelies/smaller alloys and more suitable tyres for the mud and snow - but I'll wait until autumn for that. The only regret is the lack of heated seats and sunroof, but as this is probably the only "as new" e53 kicking around that isn't a japanese import, I don't think I can afford to be picky.
I don't get back to the UK for another month so I won't see it until then, though thankfully my BIL is sorting it out for me.
Provided the sale goes through okay, this will be the newest car I've ever bought (by a year) and also the most expensive by a long shot!
I ruled out e70s due to maintenance costs and actually, I'm not a fan of that era car. Would have to be newer (out of budget) or older (e53).
I ruled out V8s due to 14mpg - I could do that for a short period but I don't know if me and my wife could stomach a winter trips to the alps fueling at 2 euros a litre petrol at 14mpg - would seem a little insane, as I'm not a billionaire.
I was tempted initially to find a well looked after 3.0 petrol at the £3000 range and deal with the likely issues and costs. The upshot of this would have been that I'd have a spare engine for my e46, which I will be keeping regardless. However I decided that faffing around with two old sheds would be a good way to fall out of love with motoring so I should probably get something in exceptional condition.
So I have put a deposit down on the holy grail e53. It's a 3.0 diesel, 1 owner from new, 31,000 miles and immaculate. I note from MOT history it could do with some suspension work but when it literally looks brand new, I'm happy to deal with that. £10,000 was towards the top of my budget, and due to the age I expect to pay another £2000 immediately to pre-emptively deal with known issues. I will then need to spend another £1000 on steelies/smaller alloys and more suitable tyres for the mud and snow - but I'll wait until autumn for that. The only regret is the lack of heated seats and sunroof, but as this is probably the only "as new" e53 kicking around that isn't a japanese import, I don't think I can afford to be picky.
I don't get back to the UK for another month so I won't see it until then, though thankfully my BIL is sorting it out for me.
Provided the sale goes through okay, this will be the newest car I've ever bought (by a year) and also the most expensive by a long shot!
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