New 320D SE v old 320D ES
Discussion
My current company car (old shape 2004 320D ES) is up for change and I've just been delivered a new shape 320D SE for a 48hr test drive. I've taken the car for a quick drive, these are my first impressions, I'd be interested to see what any other drivers think. Basically it boils down to this 320 or an Audi A3 S-Line with all the toys. The BMW must surely have that licked in terms of driving experience and handling, but the chav in me could still be seduced by the 18" alloys and leather sports seats in the Audi! My current 320ES is pretty basic but does have leather and the M steering wheel/gearknob.
-Build quality on the new one is nowhere near as good. The trim around the clocks is not fitted properly, and the headlining deflects a good inch when you turn the interior lights on. Squeaks and rattles on a car annoy the hell out of me, it's quiet at the moment, but do they get squeaky with age?
-This one does not have the "Efficient Dynamics" package, my one would, what's it like, can you turn it off, or is it ok to live with? Does that "when to change gear-o-meter" that this one is missing annoy you? Does it flash and say "4TH DAMMIT!!!" or is it quite subtle?
-I'd heard great things about the 177bhp engine, to be honest if anything it feels slightly slower than my current car (although we are talking 50k miles v 4k miles so it might loosen up). The redline on the new car is 250rpm less than the old one...OK I know it's a diesel but the one thing that really impressed me on my current BMW was it's willingness to rev, the new one feels more like a VAG diesel, as in no point in revving it.
-Gearbox, very notchy compared to the old one, and a minor niggle is that you cant move the armrest out of the way, something I used to do on a twisties thrash, or I was forever banging my elbow on it. The corner of the new armrest is just the right size to catch your funny bone!
-Handling feels basically identical (as in superb), although the DSC seems "softer" which is nice, although the brakes don't feel quite as positive to me...
-The Mrs says the visibility is not as good, especially out the back. The A-pillars do seem much thicker too.
-I have to say the spec is really good, however as it's SE v ES we're not talking apples for apples. It seems to have bluetooth with steering wheel controls, is this a standard fitment? I also much prefer the clocks and general feel of the cabin apart from the stupid new indicator stalk (although I'll miss leather!), however deletion of the map pockets behind the front seats is a shame...it stops empty cans rolling round the footwells!
-The "can cooler", is it any good?
That's it really, just be interestd to hear peoples impressions after a few thousand miles of driving.
Thanks in advance!
-Build quality on the new one is nowhere near as good. The trim around the clocks is not fitted properly, and the headlining deflects a good inch when you turn the interior lights on. Squeaks and rattles on a car annoy the hell out of me, it's quiet at the moment, but do they get squeaky with age?
-This one does not have the "Efficient Dynamics" package, my one would, what's it like, can you turn it off, or is it ok to live with? Does that "when to change gear-o-meter" that this one is missing annoy you? Does it flash and say "4TH DAMMIT!!!" or is it quite subtle?
-I'd heard great things about the 177bhp engine, to be honest if anything it feels slightly slower than my current car (although we are talking 50k miles v 4k miles so it might loosen up). The redline on the new car is 250rpm less than the old one...OK I know it's a diesel but the one thing that really impressed me on my current BMW was it's willingness to rev, the new one feels more like a VAG diesel, as in no point in revving it.
-Gearbox, very notchy compared to the old one, and a minor niggle is that you cant move the armrest out of the way, something I used to do on a twisties thrash, or I was forever banging my elbow on it. The corner of the new armrest is just the right size to catch your funny bone!
-Handling feels basically identical (as in superb), although the DSC seems "softer" which is nice, although the brakes don't feel quite as positive to me...
-The Mrs says the visibility is not as good, especially out the back. The A-pillars do seem much thicker too.
-I have to say the spec is really good, however as it's SE v ES we're not talking apples for apples. It seems to have bluetooth with steering wheel controls, is this a standard fitment? I also much prefer the clocks and general feel of the cabin apart from the stupid new indicator stalk (although I'll miss leather!), however deletion of the map pockets behind the front seats is a shame...it stops empty cans rolling round the footwells!
-The "can cooler", is it any good?
That's it really, just be interestd to hear peoples impressions after a few thousand miles of driving.
Thanks in advance!
The can cooler is good and does work.
Im suprised the lack of willingness to rev. My 335d loves to rev to 5k and pulls hard all the way to the redline.
Im sure once she has 'loosened' up so to speak she will be quicker than your old 320d.
The effecient dynamics engines, i do not like.. I hate the cutting out, its weird i find. Luckily my car does not have it.
I wonder how it wil effect the longevity of turbos with the car always cutting out at a standstill.
Im suprised the lack of willingness to rev. My 335d loves to rev to 5k and pulls hard all the way to the redline.
Im sure once she has 'loosened' up so to speak she will be quicker than your old 320d.
The effecient dynamics engines, i do not like.. I hate the cutting out, its weird i find. Luckily my car does not have it.
I wonder how it wil effect the longevity of turbos with the car always cutting out at a standstill.
I take it the E46 is the current shape?
Nope, I'm serious about the build quality, and a couple of other people have said to me "build quality is worse, in every other respect it's better".
It is a saloon, not a coupe, although they can't be that different. I'm guessing yours is a 6 cylinder so will feel very different to a 4 pot, but the new one does not feel as revvy...and by the lower position of the redline I guess it can't be!
But has yours stayed squeak and rattle free?
Thanks!
Nope, I'm serious about the build quality, and a couple of other people have said to me "build quality is worse, in every other respect it's better".
It is a saloon, not a coupe, although they can't be that different. I'm guessing yours is a 6 cylinder so will feel very different to a 4 pot, but the new one does not feel as revvy...and by the lower position of the redline I guess it can't be!
But has yours stayed squeak and rattle free?
Thanks!
Hi there,
E46 is any 3 series from 1998-2006. (Your current car)
E90 is a 3 series saloon from 2005 onwards. (Your next car..?)
E92 is a 3 series Coupe from 2006 onwards. (My car, and i have no experiance with the E90)
The build quality is a step ahead of the E46 quite clearly. My uncles DB9 squeeks and rattles more than my E92.
Yes she has developed a squeek in the passenger seat, a commn fault which will be rectified.
Blame our terrible roads not the car.
The E46 is very clunky and not half as refined as the Newer model. Again speaking for the coupe not the saloon.
Try the coupe.
Carlos
E46 is any 3 series from 1998-2006. (Your current car)
E90 is a 3 series saloon from 2005 onwards. (Your next car..?)
E92 is a 3 series Coupe from 2006 onwards. (My car, and i have no experiance with the E90)
The build quality is a step ahead of the E46 quite clearly. My uncles DB9 squeeks and rattles more than my E92.
Yes she has developed a squeek in the passenger seat, a commn fault which will be rectified.
Blame our terrible roads not the car.
The E46 is very clunky and not half as refined as the Newer model. Again speaking for the coupe not the saloon.
Try the coupe.
Carlos
Having had three e46s and now have an e90 I would concur that the build quality is fine with the latest models. My 320d e46 did seem to rev a little more than the other 2 litre that we also have (120d) but again the newer engine is just so much more grunty and nothing like the asthmatic VAG diesels. The handling and ride, even on run flats is better (M Sport v Sport) in favour of the e90 IMO as well. So many more nice little touches with the e90 makes the e46 very old hat.
Regards
Chris
Regards
Chris
Actually, I'll retract that rev comment, it actually seemed OK the second time I drove it, I must have been imagining it, and it is growing on me. I do like the lighting on the door handles!
However, it does seem to be over-complicated in places...I drove it at night and was being dazzled by the dials...could I work out how to dim the panel? The indicator stalk is still a PITA too. (Well, yes, after about 10 minutes of fiddling around I did dim the clocks-I had no manual...but what is wrong with a nice simple rheostat like the old car?)
Hmmm, however one thing I have noticed is that I don't think the handling is as nice, turn the TC off and really push it and it seems to quite like a bit of understeer every so often...the tyres will squeal earlier too. Could those be the runflats? The old model definitely leaned more firmly towards the oversteer camp I think...
But I have to admit it the new one is a very nice car and a nice place to be. Agreed on the wheel size, but unless I want to chuck my own money at a company car (which I don't) the wheels stay as is...
However, it does seem to be over-complicated in places...I drove it at night and was being dazzled by the dials...could I work out how to dim the panel? The indicator stalk is still a PITA too. (Well, yes, after about 10 minutes of fiddling around I did dim the clocks-I had no manual...but what is wrong with a nice simple rheostat like the old car?)
Hmmm, however one thing I have noticed is that I don't think the handling is as nice, turn the TC off and really push it and it seems to quite like a bit of understeer every so often...the tyres will squeal earlier too. Could those be the runflats? The old model definitely leaned more firmly towards the oversteer camp I think...
But I have to admit it the new one is a very nice car and a nice place to be. Agreed on the wheel size, but unless I want to chuck my own money at a company car (which I don't) the wheels stay as is...
I know I shouldn't say this, but I took out both the bm and audi and the 170bhp audi was more fun somehow. It is a work of art inside, and it pulls like a slapper at a man u xmas party as well.
Though the 177 unit is more powerful, there is something about that audi, maybe because it's smaller and a little less refined. I am really really hoping that the 123d unit will be dumped in a 3 series, then it will have the edge. Sadly though that seems it would shoot the 325d out the water and the lesser petrol units, so not sure when and how it will work and effect the model line up.
If anybody has a crystal ball on what BMW will do with that 23d unit then shout now, as it could be a winner.
Though the 177 unit is more powerful, there is something about that audi, maybe because it's smaller and a little less refined. I am really really hoping that the 123d unit will be dumped in a 3 series, then it will have the edge. Sadly though that seems it would shoot the 325d out the water and the lesser petrol units, so not sure when and how it will work and effect the model line up.
If anybody has a crystal ball on what BMW will do with that 23d unit then shout now, as it could be a winner.
Have just sold my 320D SE (new shape) - Brilliant (if hard ride on sports suspension) and painfully expensive punctures (£160 for new tyre). The handling just amazes, much better than any front drive and is just scary the speed you can carry around a corner, the more you push the more it hangs on - be careful of mid bed dips, the hard suspension causes it to skip sideways - and at speed its brown trouser time ! I prefer it to 4WD as it has more balance (the snow last year though, not so good). My friend has a new A4 s-line quattro avant 177bhp - we both agree the power is a bit peekey while the 320d is more linear.
The other downside is at a trade in I was offered £12,500.00 and when it cost me £29,300 2 years and 4 months ago I was not to happy (45,000 miles)
The other downside is at a trade in I was offered £12,500.00 and when it cost me £29,300 2 years and 4 months ago I was not to happy (45,000 miles)
I even prefer the E36 shape to the E46, The E36 is far more classier. The E92 is the next step ahead of te styling game. Looks so much classier again over the E46 and so much more modern, but of course it will do. At night An E92 from behind looks so wide and menacing. The headlights a work of art as is the rear quarter panel. BMW have done a bloody good job with it to be honest.
The new 177 320d is a much nicer drive than the one you have been lent. The engine pulls better between the gears and appears more substantional (if that makes sense)
You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
EficientDynamics is mainly invisable the start/stop will only effect drivers who put the car in neutral when at the lights, I always leave mine in gear with the clutch down. The optimun indicator is also small and does not impact on you, until you ignore it and the shouts
I SAID THIRD YOU SILLY 
You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
EficientDynamics is mainly invisable the start/stop will only effect drivers who put the car in neutral when at the lights, I always leave mine in gear with the clutch down. The optimun indicator is also small and does not impact on you, until you ignore it and the shouts
I SAID THIRD YOU SILLY BadX5 said:
The other downside is at a trade in I was offered £12,500.00 and when it cost me £29,300 2 years and 4 months ago I was not to happy (45,000 miles)
I'm really not sure what you expected when you spec'd up a 320d to 30 grand - hell my 530i Sport was only a few grand more than that new!Donut said:
The new 177 320d is a much nicer drive than the one you have been lent. The engine pulls better between the gears and appears more substantional (if that makes sense)
You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
So is it a different engine and wheels now? That's annoying as the dealership said it was identical spec...the loan car is a 57 plate. Kinda makes the demo a waste of time!You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
Hard-Drive said:
Donut said:
The new 177 320d is a much nicer drive than the one you have been lent. The engine pulls better between the gears and appears more substantional (if that makes sense)
You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
So is it a different engine and wheels now? That's annoying as the dealership said it was identical spec...the loan car is a 57 plate. Kinda makes the demo a waste of time!You also get better looking alloys now on the SE, much better than the ones on your loaner!
Edited by Donut on Thursday 31st January 16:07
Down at the road.
GODDAMMIT the dealer has just confirmed it's a 160bhp. That may possibly explain my slight dissapointment with the thing and why I thought it was no faster (possibly slower) than my current car even though the new engine was supposed to be so good.
It was even the dealer sales guy who said originally "we'll make sure we send you a 177, it really is just so much better!"
They are going to try and get me a 177...I await their call...
GODDAMMIT the dealer has just confirmed it's a 160bhp. That may possibly explain my slight dissapointment with the thing and why I thought it was no faster (possibly slower) than my current car even though the new engine was supposed to be so good.
It was even the dealer sales guy who said originally "we'll make sure we send you a 177, it really is just so much better!"
They are going to try and get me a 177...I await their call...
Hard-Drive said:
Down at the road.
GODDAMMIT the dealer has just confirmed it's a 160bhp. That may possibly explain my slight dissapointment with the thing and why I thought it was no faster (possibly slower) than my current car even though the new engine was supposed to be so good.
It was even the dealer sales guy who said originally "we'll make sure we send you a 177, it really is just so much better!"
They are going to try and get me a 177...I await their call...
I see your in the midlands.GODDAMMIT the dealer has just confirmed it's a 160bhp. That may possibly explain my slight dissapointment with the thing and why I thought it was no faster (possibly slower) than my current car even though the new engine was supposed to be so good.
It was even the dealer sales guy who said originally "we'll make sure we send you a 177, it really is just so much better!"
They are going to try and get me a 177...I await their call...
I have a new engine 320d Auto M Sport if your interested?
- If you can nominate the dealer who will provide the car of course
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