328 - E36 or E46?
Discussion
Hi guys,
Looking at getting a new car just after Christmas, and have pretty much narrowed it down to an E36 328i Sport, or an E46 328ci. Budget is £4500 tops, and I've seen a few 328ci E46s go for around that money or slightly less on ebay.
I'm a uni student and will be 21 by that time. Won't be doing huge mileage (around 4000 a year) and the insurance is roughly the same on both.
I appreciate the E36 will be slightly less refined, but have heard that it's a more nimble 'drivers' car than the later E46? What's it like on a long motorway journey - is the ride so firm and noisy that it'll be incredibly tiring? How much are you looking at for a mint E36?
So I'm calling on the collective knowledge of PH - which one should I go for considering my budget and what are the upsides/downsides of each?
'Fun factor' is the main selling point, but running costs and general reliability also important. Couldn't care less about fuel consumption by the way - I assume they're roughly equal and anything's better than my 3.9L Range Rover!
Looking at getting a new car just after Christmas, and have pretty much narrowed it down to an E36 328i Sport, or an E46 328ci. Budget is £4500 tops, and I've seen a few 328ci E46s go for around that money or slightly less on ebay.
I'm a uni student and will be 21 by that time. Won't be doing huge mileage (around 4000 a year) and the insurance is roughly the same on both.
I appreciate the E36 will be slightly less refined, but have heard that it's a more nimble 'drivers' car than the later E46? What's it like on a long motorway journey - is the ride so firm and noisy that it'll be incredibly tiring? How much are you looking at for a mint E36?
So I'm calling on the collective knowledge of PH - which one should I go for considering my budget and what are the upsides/downsides of each?
'Fun factor' is the main selling point, but running costs and general reliability also important. Couldn't care less about fuel consumption by the way - I assume they're roughly equal and anything's better than my 3.9L Range Rover!
Edited by wiffmaster on Tuesday 2nd December 17:47
wiffmaster said:
I appreciate the E36 will be slightly less refined, but have heard that it's a more nimble 'drivers' car than the later E46? What's it like on a long motorway journey - is the ride so firm and noisy that it'll be incredibly tiring? How much are you looking at for a mint E36?
E36's are still very refined and comfortable, can't say I've noticed the E46 being any better in that respect. The only improvement in my eyes is the way the E46 looks both inside and out compared to the E36. The newer car is heavier and slightly different to drive, some people find they handle better but you'd never get chance to tell the difference in on the limit handling on the road. The M52 engined E46 was one of the last cars BMW made with a cable operated throttle so has better response than the 330i. You can get nice E36's for less than £2k and that's where my money would go, I believe they're at the bottom of the depreciation curve and will start to go up like E30's in the future. Thanks for all your help so far everybody.
I think you're right about the 'slinky cruiser' bit - I don't want an all out 'ring-style' car, as it's got to be used as daily transport. But when I do get onto the twisties, I want to make sure I won't be disappointed; need to test drive both and see which offers the best compromise I guess.
£4500 is definitely as high as I could go, so that rules out pretty much all of the 330ci's that I've seen. The E46 328ci seems to have been a bit 'forgotten' as it was made for so short a time, and as such it seems you can pick these up for much less.
Little concerned on the safety of the E36. Whilst crashing isn't particularly high on my 'to-do' list, I'd like a solid car should the worst happen. I knew the E46 to be pretty safe, but how does the E36 hold up - the end of your post implies it might be badly?
Thanks again.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
'Fun Factor' is definitely the main factor, but it'll be used on the motorway occasionally. Frankly, I justed wanted to confirm it wasn't absolutely awful on the motorway (think Land Rover Defender motorway awful).I think you're right about the 'slinky cruiser' bit - I don't want an all out 'ring-style' car, as it's got to be used as daily transport. But when I do get onto the twisties, I want to make sure I won't be disappointed; need to test drive both and see which offers the best compromise I guess.
dxb335d said:
To be fair, as two basic cars i think the e36 328 looks better. It really does.
Now if it was a late e46 330 then that would be a different kettle of fish.
The e46 though is a far safer car than then e36.
I quite like the look of both cars - whilst the E46 is more clean and modern, there's the old-school appeal of the E36 on those BBS alloys. Which ever one I decide on, it's going to stay stock (at least visually)Now if it was a late e46 330 then that would be a different kettle of fish.
The e46 though is a far safer car than then e36.
£4500 is definitely as high as I could go, so that rules out pretty much all of the 330ci's that I've seen. The E46 328ci seems to have been a bit 'forgotten' as it was made for so short a time, and as such it seems you can pick these up for much less.
Little concerned on the safety of the E36. Whilst crashing isn't particularly high on my 'to-do' list, I'd like a solid car should the worst happen. I knew the E46 to be pretty safe, but how does the E36 hold up - the end of your post implies it might be badly?
Thanks again.
The e36 is a death trap. I personally would not go there. Ive had one. Lovely car but just so dangerous in an accident.
It recieved one and a half stars on the euro Ncap, compared to 5 of the e46.
The brake pedal, (obviously depressed, whilst en-route to an accident) comes back 13 inches. Breaking your leg, hip and pelvis.
35mph impact can prove fatal.
have a read
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_1997/15...
It recieved one and a half stars on the euro Ncap, compared to 5 of the e46.
The brake pedal, (obviously depressed, whilst en-route to an accident) comes back 13 inches. Breaking your leg, hip and pelvis.
35mph impact can prove fatal.
have a read
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_1997/15...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's starting to look that way. Although I'm not overly paranoid regarding safety and don't take NCAP as gospel, 1.5/5* does set alarm bells ringing.Hopefully there will be some bargains around just after Christmas, so I'll be able to pick up a nice E46 328ci/330ci within my budget. I know the 328ci is about 30bhp down on the 330ci, but I don't really know how much I'd notice this in the real world? Also, have heard reports that the electronic throttle on the 330ci is a bit dim-witted and slow to react - how much worse than the 328ci's mechanical system is it? Considering the price difference, is the 330ci worth the extra £££ over the 328ci?
Cheers.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A 40mph frontal impact into a deformable structure (ie parked stationary car) Leaves the e36 looking awful and in a state which EURO Ncap say is very likely to be a fatal accident.
Let along another car doing similar speed the oncoming way.
Edited by dxb335d on Tuesday 2nd December 22:45
DXB - You are a little over zealous in your chastisement of the E36 here, having been in a unfortunate accident in my old car at around 40mph going through a 2.5ft garden wall and into trees I can honestly say that the pedal box did not come back 13 inches into my legs. The bulkhead did deform slightly and moved the dash a few mm meaning that I couldn't close the glovebox, but other than that the car stood up very well.
Found some pictures:
Found some pictures:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I like the e36. Its a great car. But not a safe one. If anyone i cared about was thinking of buying one i would try deter them.Again you were fortunate that your impact was not with anything harder. You car does look badly damaged.
Look at the facts of the Euro N-Cap and the car in a serious 40mph impact with say a stationary car could leave you in a seriously bad state. The car is far more crumpled than your car. But then again is subject to a particular offset test which your accident wasnt.
I've currently got both an E36 (late '97 model 323) and an E46 (late 2004 model 320d). Both have been driven around town, on the motorway, to Spain and back, plus some lairy driving in between.
Ignoring the engines, there is no significant difference between the two cars when on the motorway. The E46 is far easier to push hard down a road as it is more forgiving, but I have more fun at lower speeds in the E36.
The E36 on mtech suspension is softer than my E46 on standard suspension but the E46 is more composed over the bumps. I don't think that the steering is massively better on the E36 for it to bother me, but I believe that they changed the steering on facelifted E46 so perhaps it is not a fair comparison.
Ignore the comments about needing to work on either to make them handle - I'm not exactly inexperienced in high performance cars and unless you are tracking either on a regular basis then the standard set ups are fine.
If it was my money and I was in your situation I'd spend £2.5-3k on a very good example of an E36 323 or 328i and leave the rest in the bank for a rainy day.
r.e. commments about safety. The E36 was fairly good for its time, as was the E46, but the ncap can only be seen as a guide. Some of the 'modifications' that bmw did to gain extra stars on the E46, particularily side impact, are very heath robinson. If safety was a concern (not that it was ever mentioned in the OP), go and buy a Volvo S60 T5 (250hp/155mph) for the same money.
Ignoring the engines, there is no significant difference between the two cars when on the motorway. The E46 is far easier to push hard down a road as it is more forgiving, but I have more fun at lower speeds in the E36.
The E36 on mtech suspension is softer than my E46 on standard suspension but the E46 is more composed over the bumps. I don't think that the steering is massively better on the E36 for it to bother me, but I believe that they changed the steering on facelifted E46 so perhaps it is not a fair comparison.
Ignore the comments about needing to work on either to make them handle - I'm not exactly inexperienced in high performance cars and unless you are tracking either on a regular basis then the standard set ups are fine.
If it was my money and I was in your situation I'd spend £2.5-3k on a very good example of an E36 323 or 328i and leave the rest in the bank for a rainy day.
r.e. commments about safety. The E36 was fairly good for its time, as was the E46, but the ncap can only be seen as a guide. Some of the 'modifications' that bmw did to gain extra stars on the E46, particularily side impact, are very heath robinson. If safety was a concern (not that it was ever mentioned in the OP), go and buy a Volvo S60 T5 (250hp/155mph) for the same money.
Edited by JimexPL on Wednesday 3rd December 10:02
Edited by JimexPL on Wednesday 3rd December 10:03
dxb335d said:
Buy the best for the money you can. (E46)
Agree...I would imagine that the people saying the E36 is the way to go own one. I've owned many and personally don't like the halfords-magnet-image they have now (they are good cars, but unarguably fell into the wrong hands years ago).
The E46 is a totally different car... much improved and much more up to date - although even these now seem pre-historic compared to the latest 3-Series.
The E46 is the way to go. Drive both and make your own mind up.
RE: NCAP tests, I don't think anyone here is qualified to argue with Euro NCAP's findings
E46!
Edited by Gallen (BPH) on Wednesday 3rd December 10:17
I owned an E36 318iS coupe, and a little before that did the length of the country in an E46 - 318Ci (I think with the 1.9 or 2.0 engine).
No doubt that the E46 was a more refined car, but not as much fun to drive - 328 may differ though.
What got me about the E36 was the refinement though - it had much better road noise isolation than the E220CDi that I had whilst the E36 was in for accident repairs (someone reversed into the side of the car).
No doubt that the E46 was a more refined car, but not as much fun to drive - 328 may differ though.
What got me about the E36 was the refinement though - it had much better road noise isolation than the E220CDi that I had whilst the E36 was in for accident repairs (someone reversed into the side of the car).
dxb335d said:
The e36 is a death trap. I personally would not go there. Ive had one. Lovely car but just so dangerous in an accident.
It recieved one and a half stars on the euro Ncap, compared to 5 of the e46.
The brake pedal, (obviously depressed, whilst en-route to an accident) comes back 13 inches. Breaking your leg, hip and pelvis.
35mph impact can prove fatal.
have a read
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_1997/15...
Yes, all E36's are death traps hence the thousands of 35mph accidents that are fatal in them. It recieved one and a half stars on the euro Ncap, compared to 5 of the e46.
The brake pedal, (obviously depressed, whilst en-route to an accident) comes back 13 inches. Breaking your leg, hip and pelvis.
35mph impact can prove fatal.
have a read
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_1997/15...
To the OP:
Have you test driven either model?
They have different characteristics so you should pick the one you prefer. However, bear in mind that each model will have good and bad examples for sale so you may want to try a few before making your choice.
Personally, I would have thought £4.5k would get you a mint E36 perhaps even a softtop but may only get a early E46 that's had a hard life.
Have you considered an E36 M3 3.0 if fun is the main criteria?
shamrock said:
To the OP:
Have you test driven either model?
They have different characteristics so you should pick the one you prefer. However, bear in mind that each model will have good and bad examples for sale so you may want to try a few before making your choice.
Personally, I would have thought £4.5k would get you a mint E36 perhaps even a softtop but may only get a early E46 that's had a hard life.
Have you considered an E36 M3 3.0 if fun is the main criteria?
Not driven either model yet, so will try out a few examples of each before I make a decision.Have you test driven either model?
They have different characteristics so you should pick the one you prefer. However, bear in mind that each model will have good and bad examples for sale so you may want to try a few before making your choice.
Personally, I would have thought £4.5k would get you a mint E36 perhaps even a softtop but may only get a early E46 that's had a hard life.
Have you considered an E36 M3 3.0 if fun is the main criteria?
I was thinking along the same lines regarding budget - it looks like I can either get a lovely mint E36, or an E46 in reasonable condition with big miles. Plus, if I spend all the £4.5k on the car itself, then that leaves me very little in the way of a repairs budget (never a good idea on a ~10 year old car)
As much as I would love an M3, that really is at the top of my budget. Plus, the insurance company doesn't look too favorably on a 21 year old driving one - many straight off refuse to quote!
Edited by wiffmaster on Thursday 4th December 14:14
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