DMS remap - 535D, advice
Discussion
1. Dunno
2. Depends purely on your driving, but with a good map, you should have an increase in power/torque in the midrange, so less need to tramp on the big pedal as much.
3. Dealer won't notice it, and unless they update the ECU software, it'll still be there after a service. In the event of software updating, most remappers will restore the map for you free of charge, unless you want some dyno time and tweaking to the original map.
If I may, I'd also suggest having a chat with Torque Tronix, who may/should have an agent in your area.
2. Depends purely on your driving, but with a good map, you should have an increase in power/torque in the midrange, so less need to tramp on the big pedal as much.
3. Dealer won't notice it, and unless they update the ECU software, it'll still be there after a service. In the event of software updating, most remappers will restore the map for you free of charge, unless you want some dyno time and tweaking to the original map.
If I may, I'd also suggest having a chat with Torque Tronix, who may/should have an agent in your area.
A couple of questions please:
1. How good is it? about £700ish, speak to Mike and ask what their current best deal is
2. Much impact on fuel economy? no, not either way, the car will still return 30ish in everyday driving
3. Will the main dealer be able to spot it has been remapped, if it needs to go in for engine related warranty work? (DMS say no, but I have my doubts) The dealer can't detect it and DMS will remap FOC if the dealer has to overwrite the cars original/remapped software for any reason
1. How good is it? about £700ish, speak to Mike and ask what their current best deal is
2. Much impact on fuel economy? no, not either way, the car will still return 30ish in everyday driving
3. Will the main dealer be able to spot it has been remapped, if it needs to go in for engine related warranty work? (DMS say no, but I have my doubts) The dealer can't detect it and DMS will remap FOC if the dealer has to overwrite the cars original/remapped software for any reason
3. It's easy to detect a remapped file if you are looking for a remapped file on there.
Checksum is the first one you can spot which will be different to the one you expect. Don't insurers use these tools to do quick checks, before a proper check (ie, detailed) if they suspect non-declared tuning!?
Hmmmm
Checksum is the first one you can spot which will be different to the one you expect. Don't insurers use these tools to do quick checks, before a proper check (ie, detailed) if they suspect non-declared tuning!?
Hmmmm
Mr Whippy said:
3. It's easy to detect a remapped file if you are looking for a remapped file on there.
Checksum is the first one you can spot which will be different to the one you expect. Don't insurers use these tools to do quick checks, before a proper check (ie, detailed) if they suspect non-declared tuning!?
Hmmmm
Yes they do.Checksum is the first one you can spot which will be different to the one you expect. Don't insurers use these tools to do quick checks, before a proper check (ie, detailed) if they suspect non-declared tuning!?
Hmmmm
You need to declare the remap to your insurer, and in the event of an expensive problem, don't expect help from BMW, who WILL be able to tell if they put their mind to it.
PJ S said:
Indeed, considering TT offer theirs for less than half that, and they design the maps themselves. Not sure if DMS are likewise or one of the many buying in their maps/decrypting a single purchased file for multiple usage from the likes of DIM, etc?
Even if they did, it's still only about 100 squid to buy the file... and there's nothing wrong with buying the files as long as you know the source and it's a decent, tested file. Plus, I would hazard a guess at DMS doing the tune themselves, it's not like it's an MSD80 box they're trying to crack.What gets me is that tuning an FI diesel isn't really that hard.
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
What gets me is that tuning an FI diesel isn't really that hard.
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course, but it's not
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course, but it's not
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
What gets me is that tuning an FI diesel isn't really that hard.
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
Sorry Dave, in my opinion you are talking absolute rubbish and without being drawn into the x35 argument, a good re-map makes a huge noticeable difference and is (IMO) worth the money.You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
If I wanted an M5 I would have bought one, but I didn't want the huge fuel bills based on 25k miles per annum (been there and bought the t-short
) but I did want a fast 'uber-saloon' which I now have.My car is fun to drive, very quick and keeps me smiling after 50,000 miles - more than I could say for both Porsche's I've owned, and thinking about it, in fact any other car that I've owned. To date I don't think I've ever read a post on any forum blaming a map for any problems on any car and DMS and the like would very quickly gain a poor reputation if they had any problems. I also don't think it's as easy as people imagine to re-map a car - It's probably very easy to tinker, but difficult to get right.
I think you need to have a drive in a remapped diesel and see what they'll do and how much fun they are to drive
My car - sub 6 to 60 and it will go way past 150mph..........and yet it still returns 30mpg
Try that in an M5 
Bernie-the-bolt said:
Mr Whippy said:
What gets me is that tuning an FI diesel isn't really that hard.
You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
Sorry Dave, in my opinion you are talking absolute rubbish and without being drawn into the x35 argument, a good re-map makes a huge noticeable difference and is (IMO) worth the money.You can run it richer, bit more power.
Run more boost, more fuel, faster spool etc, bit more power.
The twin turbos are all mapped/calibrated so you just add a higher boost request to the tables controlling it.
The calibrations for injection quantity are often good enough to run out to 25% more power as they stand anyway, all you need to do is simply 'request' more, adjust the limitation tables where they are evident, and away you go.
If you want more power I'd just get an M5
Honestly though, there is nothing worse than a fast diesel made faster. It actually very likely will NOT make it any more fun, and just see you burn more fuel, cost more to insure, possibly break the gearbox more often, and probably be less rewarding to drive fast.
Fair enough if it was slow to start with of course
And for £700, I'd look elsewhere full stop!
Dave
If I wanted an M5 I would have bought one, but I didn't want the huge fuel bills based on 25k miles per annum (been there and bought the t-short
) but I did want a fast 'uber-saloon' which I now have.My car is fun to drive, very quick and keeps me smiling after 50,000 miles - more than I could say for both Porsche's I've owned, and thinking about it, in fact any other car that I've owned. To date I don't think I've ever read a post on any forum blaming a map for any problems on any car and DMS and the like would very quickly gain a poor reputation if they had any problems. I also don't think it's as easy as people imagine to re-map a car - It's probably very easy to tinker, but difficult to get right.
I think you need to have a drive in a remapped diesel and see what they'll do and how much fun they are to drive
My car - sub 6 to 60 and it will go way past 150mph..........and yet it still returns 30mpg
Try that in an M5 Didn't a member on here have an auto gearbox problem with the 530d or something a year or so ago, after a remap?
It kind of is as easy as you would imagine to remap a car. Build up software and tables from scratch, yes, hugely time consuming and involving, a job only for the OEMs. But modifying the required tables within the existing un-changed calibrations that BMW spent ALL the hard work setting up, is a great deal easier. As said, most ECU's are calibrated for maybe 25-35% more power than they make anyway, potentially even more.
Now, if you fitted new turbos, fuel pumps, injectors, sensors etc, and had to re-populate tables with new data, to essenitally re-calibrate things, then fine, but that isn't what you get for £700 here.
I suppose it depends what you want from a car, but a car that is the same, but just goes more quickly with less effort, does not make a car more fun for me.
Dave
Have a scout round on www.BMWland.co.uk - there many folk on there with 535ds and some have been mapped. Simon (www.e-maps.co.uk) comes highly recommended and I would hazard a guess is cheaper than £700....
E-maps are generic bought in maps iirc... offer the same power/torque before/after as most other tuners for almost every other 'usual' car out there...
Why not find a real specialist with these specific cars/engines, and go to them?
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Who is a recognised specialist in these cars, ie, takes them racing (engine at least), or has modified one up with new turbos, pumps, injectors, etc, since they will be the ones (most likely) who write the remap files that everyone else buys and sells on for the generic remaps.
Dave
Why not find a real specialist with these specific cars/engines, and go to them?
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Who is a recognised specialist in these cars, ie, takes them racing (engine at least), or has modified one up with new turbos, pumps, injectors, etc, since they will be the ones (most likely) who write the remap files that everyone else buys and sells on for the generic remaps.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
E-maps are generic bought in maps iirc... offer the same power/torque before/after as most other tuners for almost every other 'usual' car out there...
Why not find a real specialist with these specific cars/engines, and go to them?
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Who is a recognised specialist in these cars, ie, takes them racing (engine at least), or has modified one up with new turbos, pumps, injectors, etc, since they will be the ones (most likely) who write the remap files that everyone else buys and sells on for the generic remaps.
Dave
Then surely just find someone who is selling one of those maps for half the price? Why not find a real specialist with these specific cars/engines, and go to them?
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Who is a recognised specialist in these cars, ie, takes them racing (engine at least), or has modified one up with new turbos, pumps, injectors, etc, since they will be the ones (most likely) who write the remap files that everyone else buys and sells on for the generic remaps.
Dave
Try out Evolve, they have got a good reputation for BMW tuning and can even supply you a home flash unit so you don't have to drive their to do. Believe they are using the Alientech Powergates which reads off your current settings, email it in and they send you your file back. Not any bad reports I've heard of yet.
Mr Whippy said:
E-maps are generic bought in maps iirc... offer the same power/torque before/after as most other tuners for almost every other 'usual' car out there...
Yup, that's one of the reasons I'd use him - the network of suppliers that extend across Europe means that the maps are well tested. Price and reputation obviously helps too...Mr Whippy said:
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you suggest, mentioning a US, petrol supercharger specialist company is not much good for a European turbo diesel is it I would have thought that Speed Religion would have been a better suggestion but my guess is the OP is not after an extreme map and just wants some more oomph at a reasonable price, hence my suggestion Ranger 6 said:
Mr Whippy said:
E-maps are generic bought in maps iirc... offer the same power/torque before/after as most other tuners for almost every other 'usual' car out there...
Yup, that's one of the reasons I'd use him - the network of suppliers that extend across Europe means that the maps are well tested. Price and reputation obviously helps too...Mr Whippy said:
What do ESS offer for this car for example? I know they do great honest work on the petrol models, and Simpson Motorsport are their UK based dealers (still not cheap though, after having a quick look)
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you suggest, mentioning a US, petrol supercharger specialist company is not much good for a European turbo diesel is it I would have thought that Speed Religion would have been a better suggestion but my guess is the OP is not after an extreme map and just wants some more oomph at a reasonable price, hence my suggestion I guess someone who races these is a good plan maybe? Who did TopGear use for their endurance car remapping (did they remap it? E46 330d wasn't it!?)
I dunno about generic ones always being best. I've seen tons of generic maps that, imho, are rather 'average', compared to ones done by people who spend a bit more time getting to know/specialise in a certain ECU/software/car setup.
Dave
finmac said:
A couple of questions please:
1. How good is it?
2. Much impact on fuel economy?
3. Will the main dealer be able to spot it has been remapped, if it needs to go in for engine related warranty work? (DMS say no, but I have my doubts)
1. Fantastic on the one I had, but bought it this way so couldn't comment on it as standard 1. How good is it?
2. Much impact on fuel economy?
3. Will the main dealer be able to spot it has been remapped, if it needs to go in for engine related warranty work? (DMS say no, but I have my doubts)
I'm in the process of buying a 535d again that will be standard so will comment again in a couple of weeks!2. In the time I had it, fuel economy hovered around 30 which I think was fine considering it's ability...
3. Had a couple of bits of warranty work done on it without question, but nothing specific on the engine I don't think...
Big question I used to hear which I found out for myself was the comparison made between E60 M5 and 535d....there is no comparison between the two to be had really...chalk and cheese..but to be fair, in real world driving the 535d is as much as you'll ever need and upsets plenty of cars along the way....
Mr Whippy said:
I guess someone who races these is a good plan maybe? Who did TopGear use for their endurance car remapping (did they remap it? E46 330d wasn't it!?)
I dunno about generic ones always being best. I've seen tons of generic maps that, imho, are rather 'average', compared to ones done by people who spend a bit more time getting to know/specialise in a certain ECU/software/car setup.
Dave
Good point - don't know who did the TG car originally, but I seem to remember Thorney Motorsport got heavily involved in turning it round and fixing the faults in time for the start.I dunno about generic ones always being best. I've seen tons of generic maps that, imho, are rather 'average', compared to ones done by people who spend a bit more time getting to know/specialise in a certain ECU/software/car setup.
Dave
Oh, and I wouldn't say generic maps are the best, it's just that they may be the appropriate one in this case
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