To purchase a 540i?
Discussion
I have just gone to see a 1998 540i manual saloon at a dealer that is up for £2195. A brief précis of the car:
83,600 miles.
Doctor owner from new.
FSH (BMW - Dick Lovett and Synter) up to 68,000 miles.
Dark blue with original SE wheels.
Leather interior with full electrics.
TV/Radio.
Cruise.
Sunroof.
6 spd manual gearbox.
Interior and exterior in really good condition and climate, windows, cruise etc all work.
It does have some problems:
Tyres near their wear indicators.
Tracking out - front tyres worn around the edges and a wobble between 40 - 60 mph through the steering wheel.
Airbag light on dash is on (same as in my E36).
Feels as though brake discs are warped as car shakes slightly when slowing down -could this be steering rack?
Did not pull as hard as I thought a 4.4 litre V8 would but I did not extend it to far as the fuel computer was showing 0 miles until empty!
The dealer said he would put 12 mths MOT on the car with 3 month engine and gearbox warranty (extendable to 12 mths) and sort the issues (that is if he can replicate them!!!)
Is this worth a shot for a 100 mile daily motorway commute?
Advert URL is here (not sure how to turn it into a link)
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+...
83,600 miles.
Doctor owner from new.
FSH (BMW - Dick Lovett and Synter) up to 68,000 miles.
Dark blue with original SE wheels.
Leather interior with full electrics.
TV/Radio.
Cruise.
Sunroof.
6 spd manual gearbox.
Interior and exterior in really good condition and climate, windows, cruise etc all work.
It does have some problems:
Tyres near their wear indicators.
Tracking out - front tyres worn around the edges and a wobble between 40 - 60 mph through the steering wheel.
Airbag light on dash is on (same as in my E36).
Feels as though brake discs are warped as car shakes slightly when slowing down -could this be steering rack?
Did not pull as hard as I thought a 4.4 litre V8 would but I did not extend it to far as the fuel computer was showing 0 miles until empty!
The dealer said he would put 12 mths MOT on the car with 3 month engine and gearbox warranty (extendable to 12 mths) and sort the issues (that is if he can replicate them!!!)
Is this worth a shot for a 100 mile daily motorway commute?
Advert URL is here (not sure how to turn it into a link)
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+...
First of all, I should tell you that I owned a 1997 540 for 2 years, so I am not a technical or 540 expert, but I have a little experience.
I find it rather strange these days that some dealers present a car in a bad condition and tell you that if you buy it he will sort the issues. Recently, I had a look at a 7 series and was told that in order to have a test-drive I would have to buy it - but I digress. I sympathise with your dilemma though, that is my point.
On the wheel wobble bit I had this and in my case it was caused by uneven tyre pressures believe it or not! I am not saying it is the only thing it can be but it is one thing it could be. In this case with old and unevenly worn tyres I would think it likely that the culprit is somewhere there. You can never be sure though, but I don't think it will be the rack.
Is the car fairly near you and your mechanics? If so, I would definitely recommend an inspection so that any non-obvious faults (unlike the tyres) may be identified. What is the dealer saying about the price? does 2195 take it as it is now, or is he going to sort *all* issues in this price? If I was going to sort that car out it would probably end up costing £1K or so including the 4 new tyres, tracking etc. If the dealer is going to sort all that in £2195 - how much will he spend getting it done to your satisfaction.....:O
I normally tell dealers that unless the car is perfect, I will take off what I consider a fair amount of their price for the work I need to do to it, and I break this down for them. I also tell them that with all due respect, I prefer to have someone working for me to rectify faults, rather than someone who is trying to eke as much profit out of the car I am buying, for themselves. Its just a conflict of interest
If you do a deal at 2195 if he sorts out all issues, then try to get him to confirm that he is not going to put on 4x different make retreads etc. - get him to commit as many details as possible, and if you are happy then go ahead.
I stil think that unless he can show he *has* rectified the faults though - that you should tell him to get lost but also why - as I have seen this type of behaviour from cheap-ass dealers over the past recent period.
FWIW, I sold my 1997 540 with 87K miles on the clock and a new engine from BMW at 41K miles to my sister for £1800. Full history, not dealer all the way though. It was dark blue, tan interior with a couple of slightly broken airvents but otherwise realyl clean. Bearing in mind that www.webuyanycar.com offered me £1750 I think I could get £2K all day long for that - so the price isn't so bad as such - but it isn't that good anymore if you have to spend a grand getting sorted.
Let us know how you get on!
I find it rather strange these days that some dealers present a car in a bad condition and tell you that if you buy it he will sort the issues. Recently, I had a look at a 7 series and was told that in order to have a test-drive I would have to buy it - but I digress. I sympathise with your dilemma though, that is my point.
On the wheel wobble bit I had this and in my case it was caused by uneven tyre pressures believe it or not! I am not saying it is the only thing it can be but it is one thing it could be. In this case with old and unevenly worn tyres I would think it likely that the culprit is somewhere there. You can never be sure though, but I don't think it will be the rack.
Is the car fairly near you and your mechanics? If so, I would definitely recommend an inspection so that any non-obvious faults (unlike the tyres) may be identified. What is the dealer saying about the price? does 2195 take it as it is now, or is he going to sort *all* issues in this price? If I was going to sort that car out it would probably end up costing £1K or so including the 4 new tyres, tracking etc. If the dealer is going to sort all that in £2195 - how much will he spend getting it done to your satisfaction.....:O
I normally tell dealers that unless the car is perfect, I will take off what I consider a fair amount of their price for the work I need to do to it, and I break this down for them. I also tell them that with all due respect, I prefer to have someone working for me to rectify faults, rather than someone who is trying to eke as much profit out of the car I am buying, for themselves. Its just a conflict of interest
If you do a deal at 2195 if he sorts out all issues, then try to get him to confirm that he is not going to put on 4x different make retreads etc. - get him to commit as many details as possible, and if you are happy then go ahead. I stil think that unless he can show he *has* rectified the faults though - that you should tell him to get lost but also why - as I have seen this type of behaviour from cheap-ass dealers over the past recent period.
FWIW, I sold my 1997 540 with 87K miles on the clock and a new engine from BMW at 41K miles to my sister for £1800. Full history, not dealer all the way though. It was dark blue, tan interior with a couple of slightly broken airvents but otherwise realyl clean. Bearing in mind that www.webuyanycar.com offered me £1750 I think I could get £2K all day long for that - so the price isn't so bad as such - but it isn't that good anymore if you have to spend a grand getting sorted.
Let us know how you get on!
p.s. I just read that you are going to do 35k miles and more per year. My advice in that case would maybe be to get a Benz. They seem to be very tolerant of huge mileages. How about something like this:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/MERC...
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/MERC...
Sounds like a decent car. It has "the shimmy" - this is the vibration at certain speeds and when slowing down, usually due to bushes rather than disks and almost certainly related to the uneven tyre wear. Not overly problematic to resolve.
The airbag light might simply need resetting (someone with INPA can do this for you), or could be one of the occupancy sensor switches under the seats or could be more nasty but I doubt it.
I would be looking for the price to start with a "1" though.
The airbag light might simply need resetting (someone with INPA can do this for you), or could be one of the occupancy sensor switches under the seats or could be more nasty but I doubt it.
I would be looking for the price to start with a "1" though.
Christer,
Great reply and confirms some of my thoughts. I already have an E36 328i SE that is, touch wood, as near as perfect as you will get for a 11 year old car and I bought that for £1400. My mileage won't quite be 35k as I will have some time off so I would expect 20 - 25k per year. Although this may sound slightly back to front, I am not planning on buying a new/nearly new car (A4 3.0tdi or 535d something along those lines) as I do not want to put big miles on it from the off. I want to enjoy it in 18 months when I will be doing a fraction of the mileage (and 535d M Sports have come down in price) so a couple of sub 2K motoway hacks is called for. I am also thinking Volvo C70, Merc E320 (petrol as I understood there were glow plug and injector issues with the diesel varients) or VW Golf 4Motion.
I prefer BMW though but I think this 540i may be the wrong car - if you could crystal ball it and find out there were no long term issues there are few cars better fo the job at this price. £2195 was all in including the MOT and necessary repairs.
Great reply and confirms some of my thoughts. I already have an E36 328i SE that is, touch wood, as near as perfect as you will get for a 11 year old car and I bought that for £1400. My mileage won't quite be 35k as I will have some time off so I would expect 20 - 25k per year. Although this may sound slightly back to front, I am not planning on buying a new/nearly new car (A4 3.0tdi or 535d something along those lines) as I do not want to put big miles on it from the off. I want to enjoy it in 18 months when I will be doing a fraction of the mileage (and 535d M Sports have come down in price) so a couple of sub 2K motoway hacks is called for. I am also thinking Volvo C70, Merc E320 (petrol as I understood there were glow plug and injector issues with the diesel varients) or VW Golf 4Motion.
I prefer BMW though but I think this 540i may be the wrong car - if you could crystal ball it and find out there were no long term issues there are few cars better fo the job at this price. £2195 was all in including the MOT and necessary repairs.
I could meet you there tomorrow between about 5 and 5:30, or **possibly** at some point on Saturday, otherwise it will be next week.
I would recommend you ask the dealer if he is happy for you to plug in the diagnostics - if he isn't, I would suggest that means he has already done so and knows it's not a simple fix to the airbags. In any case, the old laptop I have that will run INPA needs a power cord so we can't do it on the sly!
I would recommend you ask the dealer if he is happy for you to plug in the diagnostics - if he isn't, I would suggest that means he has already done so and knows it's not a simple fix to the airbags. In any case, the old laptop I have that will run INPA needs a power cord so we can't do it on the sly!
Hi Junglie - I too have been to see this car with a view to buying it to run for myself (but as a motor trader - the price has to reflect the condition) - and found it lacking in too many areas. To rectify all of the above issues (I dodn;t bother driving it as I wasn;t going to buy it based upon price & condition so no need to waste the chap's time any more than I had to. The fact the fuel was on 3 miles to empty didn't help...).
For me as a dealer - it was a perfect case study in how NOT to sell cars. Unprepped, dirty. I posted my findings over on the barge thread. Looks like you were the guy he was adamant "would buy it anyway" this afternoon following my decline.
a shame as beneath the work (700ish quid to me as a dealer, around a grand to you privately), there's a lovely car waiting to get out. But for 3k you could buy a nicer one with the work done.
A 3 month engine & gearbox warranty is barely worth the paper it is written on. I wouldn;t be surprised to find a claim limit of 200 pounds or less - still leaving you with a (potentially quite big) bill. I could have accepted such a service if it were a few hundred pounds' worth of banger. But not a top-of-the-range BMW 5 Series (if it were 200k miles, I could overlook some of it). At 1,500 pounds I'd have taken it, done the work using my own mechanic & smart repairers, put a 6 month all inclusive warranty with 1,000 claim limt on it and asked 2,999 for it, but in the condition and prepared to the standard such a car should be - closer to what it should be. I always plan to keep cars - but the mercenary car dealer gene in me ends up putting them up for sale anyway
Cars always appear cheap for a reason - but even then, sometimes they're not cheap enough. At 2 grand for a 540i, you'd be wiser to put it into a very late, immaculate E34 instead (suitably compression tested for Nikasil issues on the M60 engines).
My search continues - as does yours by the look of it.
The V8s are well known for wearing their front tyres' outer edges (when driven "enthusiastically" - as you or I no doubt would from time to time, after all - one doesn;t buy a 540 to drive it like a 520
). The judder you referred to under braking isn't uncommon either ca. 100k. Case of a heavy, powerful car wearing its front suspension. 7s can be similarly afflicted. I don't worry about it on the bigger BMWs - unusual on a 3 though unless it's led a particularly hard life.
I think he'll be looking at it a while with that approach to business/preparation. All the best of luck with your search! No doubt we'll cross paths again
For me as a dealer - it was a perfect case study in how NOT to sell cars. Unprepped, dirty. I posted my findings over on the barge thread. Looks like you were the guy he was adamant "would buy it anyway" this afternoon following my decline.
a shame as beneath the work (700ish quid to me as a dealer, around a grand to you privately), there's a lovely car waiting to get out. But for 3k you could buy a nicer one with the work done.
A 3 month engine & gearbox warranty is barely worth the paper it is written on. I wouldn;t be surprised to find a claim limit of 200 pounds or less - still leaving you with a (potentially quite big) bill. I could have accepted such a service if it were a few hundred pounds' worth of banger. But not a top-of-the-range BMW 5 Series (if it were 200k miles, I could overlook some of it). At 1,500 pounds I'd have taken it, done the work using my own mechanic & smart repairers, put a 6 month all inclusive warranty with 1,000 claim limt on it and asked 2,999 for it, but in the condition and prepared to the standard such a car should be - closer to what it should be. I always plan to keep cars - but the mercenary car dealer gene in me ends up putting them up for sale anyway
Cars always appear cheap for a reason - but even then, sometimes they're not cheap enough. At 2 grand for a 540i, you'd be wiser to put it into a very late, immaculate E34 instead (suitably compression tested for Nikasil issues on the M60 engines).
My search continues - as does yours by the look of it.
The V8s are well known for wearing their front tyres' outer edges (when driven "enthusiastically" - as you or I no doubt would from time to time, after all - one doesn;t buy a 540 to drive it like a 520
). The judder you referred to under braking isn't uncommon either ca. 100k. Case of a heavy, powerful car wearing its front suspension. 7s can be similarly afflicted. I don't worry about it on the bigger BMWs - unusual on a 3 though unless it's led a particularly hard life.I think he'll be looking at it a while with that approach to business/preparation. All the best of luck with your search! No doubt we'll cross paths again
I am afraid I was not the 'bloke coming around later' as he was someone who was on his way from London but did not show - I was actually there with a local chap who liked the look of the car but did not buy it.
Totally agree with your post under the 'Bargain Barge' thread and I have no intention of buying the car (huge thanks to miniman for the offer of coming over but it is not worth the efforts me thinks!) based on my look yesterday and your descriptive post.
I actually looked at another couple of cars that day and these 'mint' examples had flat tyres, overheated and had ripped interiors (that is the start of the list!).
Finding the cheap, solid car is not as easy as I first thought - the hunt continues. This is more fun, and ultimately more rewarding, than buying a new car from a main dealer!
Totally agree with your post under the 'Bargain Barge' thread and I have no intention of buying the car (huge thanks to miniman for the offer of coming over but it is not worth the efforts me thinks!) based on my look yesterday and your descriptive post.
I actually looked at another couple of cars that day and these 'mint' examples had flat tyres, overheated and had ripped interiors (that is the start of the list!).
Finding the cheap, solid car is not as easy as I first thought - the hunt continues. This is more fun, and ultimately more rewarding, than buying a new car from a main dealer!
Just as a final comment - I am not sure who the "dealer" is above and why it is in his interest to tell you his version of the car - but I would still bear in mind that if a deal is to be had then it could still be a good buy for you. But IMHO, not in that state, at that price with that attitude
junglie said:
I am afraid I was not the 'bloke coming around later' as he was someone who was on his way from London but did not show - I was actually there with a local chap who liked the look of the car but did not buy it.
Totally agree with your post under the 'Bargain Barge' thread and I have no intention of buying the car (huge thanks to miniman for the offer of coming over but it is not worth the efforts me thinks!) based on my look yesterday and your descriptive post.
I actually looked at another couple of cars that day and these 'mint' examples had flat tyres, overheated and had ripped interiors (that is the start of the list!).
Finding the cheap, solid car is not as easy as I first thought - the hunt continues. This is more fun, and ultimately more rewarding, than buying a new car from a main dealer!
Very true - at this end of the price range for what were once £45k cars - few are likely to be immaculate. I don't mind wear & tear on cars at all - in fact a completely clean car of that age & mileage rings a few bells too. However, I do object to cars being misdescribed (wastes my time and theirs) and over-priced for their condition. i.e. if this chap called me back and accepted £1,500 - I'm happy enough to have the reconditioning taken care of myself.Totally agree with your post under the 'Bargain Barge' thread and I have no intention of buying the car (huge thanks to miniman for the offer of coming over but it is not worth the efforts me thinks!) based on my look yesterday and your descriptive post.
I actually looked at another couple of cars that day and these 'mint' examples had flat tyres, overheated and had ripped interiors (that is the start of the list!).
Finding the cheap, solid car is not as easy as I first thought - the hunt continues. This is more fun, and ultimately more rewarding, than buying a new car from a main dealer!
It is fun, because eventually you will find a good condition car, priced properly & honestly. But to use a metaphor - you have to kiss many frogs to find a prince. Things are ALWAYS cheap for a reason. If it's too good to be true - it usually is.
christer said:
Just as a final comment - I am not sure who the "dealer" is above and why it is in his interest to tell you his version of the car - but I would still bear in mind that if a deal is to be had then it could still be a good buy for you. But IMHO, not in that state, at that price with that attitude
Absolutely. Too many dealers waste their own time disillusioning customers. When a trader describes a car as @mint@ alwasy bear in mind that means - for it's age & mileage. It will never be showroom new - a 12yo car with 90k rarely ever is. But all that happens is that you build up an expectation in your mind of what it will be - then to face massive disppointment when faced with reality.I work hard for my business , as such it is not in my interest to misdescribe a car. I'm wasting my own time and guaranteeing that a customer will not buy the car from me. Honesty & clarity - a rare commodity in used car traders - but to me an invaluable one. It saves me an inordinate amount of time & hassle. I work long enough hours as it is without making work for myself. But if these guys aren;t working hard preparing thei rcars , then they do have time to waste. Wrong attitude imho and exactly makes the point I referred to elsewhere on here about fast-buck merchants in this trade.
So far - that car has been viewed by four people then and no-one has bought it. I prefer mine to go to the first person that takes their own valuable time to come and see it. And thus far proves to have been the case* (slightly blowing my own trumpet there - but no-one else is doing it for me
)Customer has good experience of a dealer - tells a mate or two.
Customer has a bad experience of a dealer - tells anyone who'll listen - rightly so.
- with one exception. The chap from PH who reviewed my own car for SoTW. Which subsequently sold to a PHEr in under two hours - who is now very happy with it. Why? I was completely honest about it. Saved both of us a lot of time, money and potential aggro that neither of us needed.
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