Considering 123d M Sport - Opinions?
Discussion
I am considering a 123d Msport 3 door hatchback, as I have had a big drop in wages lately and my E46 M3 is becoming too expensive to use on a day to day basis.
Initially I was not a fan of the looks but it has grown on me (as has every other current BMW) and I recently drove one and was rather impressed by the 2.0 twin turbo diesel lump, it's no M3 but it wasn't all bad
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as so far I haven't had much positive feedback from anyone other than those who actually know what it is
Initially I was not a fan of the looks but it has grown on me (as has every other current BMW) and I recently drove one and was rather impressed by the 2.0 twin turbo diesel lump, it's no M3 but it wasn't all bad
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as so far I haven't had much positive feedback from anyone other than those who actually know what it is
I had one, see here - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Brilliant all rounder, can easily bring a smile to the face on a country road, good handling and effortless speed. Unfortunately I had to sell mine to downgrade to fund the M3 track car
Brilliant all rounder, can easily bring a smile to the face on a country road, good handling and effortless speed. Unfortunately I had to sell mine to downgrade to fund the M3 track car
Hi,
I ran a 123m sport coupe for a year, good car, truly amazing engine, the most petrol like diesel I've had, it pulled hard from 1400rpm all the way to the red line. I did find the mpg very sensitive to the way you drive, I could get over 60 mpg if I drove at 60 on the motorway, high 30s on a cross country blast , overall I averaged 47mpg during the time I had it. I had one snowy drive home, the only way I could make progress was to turn the traction control off. Although the car slid around a lot I was surprised how controllable and balanced it was.
If you follow the 'which gear' display on the dash, you do end up changing gear a lot, it tries to keep the rpm below 2000 for best economy - not really a problem because the gearchange is very good but economy will suffer it you don't follow it.
My only criticism of the car was the ride, it was too hard for me and I found it tiring on longer trips.
It held its value pretty well, and I had no problems with it. I found the usb option very useful for listening to mp3 files, I have a 3 series coupe now without the usb and I miss it. There is more room in the back of the 1 coupe than you would think, and the boot is a good shape, I reckon you can get more in the boot of a 1 coupe than in a 5 door 1 series ( I just rented one on holiday). I would highly recommend the 123d, go test drive one and see for yourself.
Hope you find my ramblings useful !
I ran a 123m sport coupe for a year, good car, truly amazing engine, the most petrol like diesel I've had, it pulled hard from 1400rpm all the way to the red line. I did find the mpg very sensitive to the way you drive, I could get over 60 mpg if I drove at 60 on the motorway, high 30s on a cross country blast , overall I averaged 47mpg during the time I had it. I had one snowy drive home, the only way I could make progress was to turn the traction control off. Although the car slid around a lot I was surprised how controllable and balanced it was.
If you follow the 'which gear' display on the dash, you do end up changing gear a lot, it tries to keep the rpm below 2000 for best economy - not really a problem because the gearchange is very good but economy will suffer it you don't follow it.
My only criticism of the car was the ride, it was too hard for me and I found it tiring on longer trips.
It held its value pretty well, and I had no problems with it. I found the usb option very useful for listening to mp3 files, I have a 3 series coupe now without the usb and I miss it. There is more room in the back of the 1 coupe than you would think, and the boot is a good shape, I reckon you can get more in the boot of a 1 coupe than in a 5 door 1 series ( I just rented one on holiday). I would highly recommend the 123d, go test drive one and see for yourself.
Hope you find my ramblings useful !
I did 10,000 miles in 2007 facelift car, with efficient dynamics.
It was a nice car, so it should have been at £27k. The fuel economy wasn't great. We never got over 37 mpg from it, as a comparison our Civic 2.2 is doing 43 mpg after 10,000 miles.
The biggest issue I had with the 120D and it undoubtedly a problem just with my car, was that after a long journey e.g around 100 miles it would loose power assistance from it's steering. The number of times I had to pull off the motorway and switch off and back on, were quite numerous.
Problem was the dealer could never find the problem.
It was a nice car, so it should have been at £27k. The fuel economy wasn't great. We never got over 37 mpg from it, as a comparison our Civic 2.2 is doing 43 mpg after 10,000 miles.
The biggest issue I had with the 120D and it undoubtedly a problem just with my car, was that after a long journey e.g around 100 miles it would loose power assistance from it's steering. The number of times I had to pull off the motorway and switch off and back on, were quite numerous.
Problem was the dealer could never find the problem.
Flat6 said:
I'd recommend trying a 130i before deciding 
Mine was surprisingly frugal and given the saving in purchase price over a 123d and extra oomph I don't think you'd be disappointed, even coming from an E46 M3...
I bought a 55plate 130i M Sport about 2 months ago after having a 330ci auto for 6 years and I absolutely love it. I wanted to go back to my 'hot hatch' days with Golf GTi's and Corrado VR6's Mine was surprisingly frugal and given the saving in purchase price over a 123d and extra oomph I don't think you'd be disappointed, even coming from an E46 M3...I'm getting about 28 mpg with virtually no cruising as most of my driving is relatively enthusiastic in rural areas, not motorways etc.
I was only getting about 23 at first as I was thrashing it around everywhere for the first week or so.
My niece and her husband have a 120d and equally love it but they were very impressed with my 130 last weekend.
May be worth considering before plunging in to diesel ownership.
I sold my M3 Evo back in June and I am waiting on a 135i Coupe. My main reasons for the change were the running costs. The cost of running the 135i are much lower than the M3.
I haven't actually driven a 135i but that leads me on to the point that I have driven my friends 123d. I am not a fan of diseasals at all and couldn't bring myself to buy one but having said that after I drove his I was very impressed. The noise in the cabin is very low and although they don't sound like a sweet 6 petrol they don't sound like tractors either. The performance is good and there is very little lag.
Given the extra economy it would have been a sensible choice for me to buy one as I do drive a reasonable amount of miles as I am in an externally based sales role at work.
All in all, great cars and I would recommend one. The only other thing to consider would be an Alpina D3 imo.
I haven't actually driven a 135i but that leads me on to the point that I have driven my friends 123d. I am not a fan of diseasals at all and couldn't bring myself to buy one but having said that after I drove his I was very impressed. The noise in the cabin is very low and although they don't sound like a sweet 6 petrol they don't sound like tractors either. The performance is good and there is very little lag.
Given the extra economy it would have been a sensible choice for me to buy one as I do drive a reasonable amount of miles as I am in an externally based sales role at work.
All in all, great cars and I would recommend one. The only other thing to consider would be an Alpina D3 imo.
Another vote for the 130i here.
I thought about a 123d, but the engine in the 130 together with my low annual mileage swayed me away from the 123d. I've had my 130 for about 18 months and it's been great, with a gentle touch I can get 32mpg, with a heavy one it drops to 25mpg. Initial service after two years (10 000 miles) has jus cost me £200, and the tax in £230IRC so it's quite cheap to run.
I also quite like the 1er as a practical proposition. People complain about the space and boot size, but I find it ok - now worse than the orginal Focus I had.
I thought about a 123d, but the engine in the 130 together with my low annual mileage swayed me away from the 123d. I've had my 130 for about 18 months and it's been great, with a gentle touch I can get 32mpg, with a heavy one it drops to 25mpg. Initial service after two years (10 000 miles) has jus cost me £200, and the tax in £230IRC so it's quite cheap to run.
I also quite like the 1er as a practical proposition. People complain about the space and boot size, but I find it ok - now worse than the orginal Focus I had.
I have a 123d and it's superb. Even thrashing it, it refuses to do less than 35mpg and on a long steady run I can get 50mpg+.
In terms of the handling, I prefer it to my Focus ST although I do miss the grunt and noise of the ST which had bags of character. I actually posted up a summary of thoughts after I had one for a few days on test prior to buying it:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
HTH.
ETA: BTW since I wrote that back in January, petrol prices have overtaken diesel again so the 1er's working out even better value-for-money. Additionally, my car came with Dunlops fitted which are miles better than the Goodyears fitted to the test car.
In terms of the handling, I prefer it to my Focus ST although I do miss the grunt and noise of the ST which had bags of character. I actually posted up a summary of thoughts after I had one for a few days on test prior to buying it:
Funk said:
Lots of opinions being posted here. I'll chip in with my thoughts as I'm going from a Focus ST with a remap to a 123d in the next couple of months (it's on order as we speak). I used to be 100% anti-diesel. I called it the dirty pump. The wrong 'un. I was also incredibly scathing of the 120d one of my colleagues had, calling it '..the wannaBMW..' or '..the BMW for those who can't afford a proper one..'.
How wrong I was, I take it all back. Let's not forget that cars are bought for one of two reasons: driving fun and fitness for purpose. If you're lucky, those two converge. For most of us though, we need something that covers as many of the bases as possible. For many others, there are also constraints for things like company car schemes. I haven't got space to have a boring company car and a fun weekend toy. I spend most of my day in my car, so I'd like something that's going to bring a smile to my face if possible. There will undoubtedly be concessions made along the way in certain areas.
So step one. I have to have a company car. With no space for a 'fun' car too, I have to combine as many elements of the two as I can within the scheme. I can opt out, but my company operates a COS scheme which means no company car tax and better rates than I could negotiate myself. I also have everything covered such as insurance, servicing, tyres, a hire car if it breaks down and things like windscreen/glass replacement. It's no-hassle and requires no personal commitment on my part. The ST has been great. When I ordered it, there was no inkling that residuals would be as poor as they are now and as such, the monthly costs were cheap. I pay a little extra out of my own pocket toward it (£86/month) over and above the £260 my company pay. However, as the COS scheme means I claim back fuel-only, it's at 19p/mile rather than 40p/mile I would claim if it were completely my own car. Bear in mind that I would also be footing the bill for maintenance, business insurance etc.
So the ST's been a good car, cheap contribution for me although I do subsidise my business mileage a little as the 19p/mile doesn't cover the thirst of the engine. Not to worry, it's still a brand new ST for less than the cost of the insurance alone if I were to buy one privately. It's a good deal. Where things go wrong is when we fast-forward to today.
The ST has gone up on the monthly cost. By a LOT. The prevailing economic climate doesn't help either, and due to poor residuals forecasted for three years' time, the monthly cost has risen from £86 to £205/month (on top of the company's £260). So now the same car (base-model ST-2) would be £465/mo rather than £346/mo. It gets worse. Because the company are concerned about emissions, they will reduce the 'drawdown' amount by £10 per 10g/km that your chosen car is over the 'target' CO2 bracket (in this case, 160-169g/km). That means a new ST gets a deduction of £60/mo from the £260 - meaning my contribution would rise to £265/mo. On top of that, I'd be subsidising my fuel still (as the new ST won't be any more economical than the current one) to the tune of £150/mo. No-go.
So something had to give. I still wanted many of the traits of the ST - good handling, fun to drive, able to kick back and cruise when needed, quiet at motorway speeds and gutsy on A- and B-roads. I looked at all the marques available to me on the car list. The only ones that hold their values better are the German marques. Choosing a Ford or a Vauxhall meant instant higher costs as the depreciation was factored into the monthly costs. BMW are, I think it's fair to say, leagues ahead of the others when it comes to diesel engines. If I was to have a nice car, I needed to get my fuel costs down. Whilst diesel is slightly dearer at the pump, it goes a lot further, especially when compared to the ST. Bear in mind also that I've been running super unleaded as with the remap, the ST doesn't like 95 octane so the differential between petrol and diesel narrows for me (about 8ppl in real terms).
I put my prejudices to one side about diesel, BMWs in general and specifically the 1-series. I had one on a 2-day test drive and jotted down my thoughts on BabyBMW.net:
Some people would say it's crazy to pay £230 a month for a car you'll never own. However, my car is my office and I need somewhere I'm comfortable and enjoy being. It's also more than comparable to other cars within the scheme. I'm also acutely aware that I could easily pay more than £230 a month to run my own car (and it wouldn't be anything as nice as the BMW!). If I hit 40mpg on average, I'll be MAKING money on the fuel scheme and I've worked out that the £230/mo for the car is more than offset by the costs I'm currently paying even now; £215 on fuel and £86 personal contribution for the ST = £300/mo. With the BM it'll be £230 and no fuel costs, saving me £70/month.
Bottom line is that the BMW gets almost as close on pace, handling and driver involvement whilst significantly bettering the ST in areas such as build quality, comfort, prestige and kit levels. It'll also put £850 a year back in my pocket compared with the ST I'm in now - and save me £2,340 over a new ST (even without factoring in fuel costs!).
Would I buy one with my own money? No, it'd be mad. With someone else subsidising 60% of it, no company car tax, breakdown cover with hire car provided, all maintenance, repairs, servicing, road tax and insurance paid for?
Yes. It is a complete no-brainer.
There's also some pics of mine here if you're still not sold. How wrong I was, I take it all back. Let's not forget that cars are bought for one of two reasons: driving fun and fitness for purpose. If you're lucky, those two converge. For most of us though, we need something that covers as many of the bases as possible. For many others, there are also constraints for things like company car schemes. I haven't got space to have a boring company car and a fun weekend toy. I spend most of my day in my car, so I'd like something that's going to bring a smile to my face if possible. There will undoubtedly be concessions made along the way in certain areas.
So step one. I have to have a company car. With no space for a 'fun' car too, I have to combine as many elements of the two as I can within the scheme. I can opt out, but my company operates a COS scheme which means no company car tax and better rates than I could negotiate myself. I also have everything covered such as insurance, servicing, tyres, a hire car if it breaks down and things like windscreen/glass replacement. It's no-hassle and requires no personal commitment on my part. The ST has been great. When I ordered it, there was no inkling that residuals would be as poor as they are now and as such, the monthly costs were cheap. I pay a little extra out of my own pocket toward it (£86/month) over and above the £260 my company pay. However, as the COS scheme means I claim back fuel-only, it's at 19p/mile rather than 40p/mile I would claim if it were completely my own car. Bear in mind that I would also be footing the bill for maintenance, business insurance etc.
So the ST's been a good car, cheap contribution for me although I do subsidise my business mileage a little as the 19p/mile doesn't cover the thirst of the engine. Not to worry, it's still a brand new ST for less than the cost of the insurance alone if I were to buy one privately. It's a good deal. Where things go wrong is when we fast-forward to today.
The ST has gone up on the monthly cost. By a LOT. The prevailing economic climate doesn't help either, and due to poor residuals forecasted for three years' time, the monthly cost has risen from £86 to £205/month (on top of the company's £260). So now the same car (base-model ST-2) would be £465/mo rather than £346/mo. It gets worse. Because the company are concerned about emissions, they will reduce the 'drawdown' amount by £10 per 10g/km that your chosen car is over the 'target' CO2 bracket (in this case, 160-169g/km). That means a new ST gets a deduction of £60/mo from the £260 - meaning my contribution would rise to £265/mo. On top of that, I'd be subsidising my fuel still (as the new ST won't be any more economical than the current one) to the tune of £150/mo. No-go.
So something had to give. I still wanted many of the traits of the ST - good handling, fun to drive, able to kick back and cruise when needed, quiet at motorway speeds and gutsy on A- and B-roads. I looked at all the marques available to me on the car list. The only ones that hold their values better are the German marques. Choosing a Ford or a Vauxhall meant instant higher costs as the depreciation was factored into the monthly costs. BMW are, I think it's fair to say, leagues ahead of the others when it comes to diesel engines. If I was to have a nice car, I needed to get my fuel costs down. Whilst diesel is slightly dearer at the pump, it goes a lot further, especially when compared to the ST. Bear in mind also that I've been running super unleaded as with the remap, the ST doesn't like 95 octane so the differential between petrol and diesel narrows for me (about 8ppl in real terms).
I put my prejudices to one side about diesel, BMWs in general and specifically the 1-series. I had one on a 2-day test drive and jotted down my thoughts on BabyBMW.net:
Funk on BabyBMW said:
I took delivery of a grey 123d M-Sport this morning for 48 hours and the thing has been put through its paces on my daily regime.
First impressions then..
Build and interior
The overall build quality, fit and finish are excellent - this is something I know BMW do extremely well and the 1er doesn't feel in any way the 'poor relation' of the range. You can see where the extra money has gone. The doors shut with a reassuring solidity, all the buttons and switches have a delightfully positive action and one of my 'bench tests' was passed with flying colours. I know this sounds weird, but I like to see whether the windows both drop and raise at the same speed (or near enough). The BM's windows raise and lower in synchrony which is good. Incidentally, my ST fails this test badly..
The shutlines are excellent and nothing whistled or rattled today (the demo car has 5,500 miles on it so should be settling in by now) and bumps and expansion joints pass by with a muted 'whump' as opposed to crashing through the structure like they do in the ST. All the controls have a nice weight to them and the indicator and wiper stalks click with a reassuringly expensive action. The seat was very comfortable and easy to position. I like the adjustable bolsters and didn't miss having lumbar adjustment. Features like auto lights, wipers and the dimming rear view mirror are lovely and I guess whilst I haven't had them I didn't miss them - but today the little touches made the difference.
Plenty of cubby-holes for storage, although the glovebox is small and the seat pockets on the backs of the front seats are mesh and not solid material which means smaller stuff can't be stored there (and it's also on view to those passing by the car). The extended lighting pack was nice (the test car came with the 'Comfort Pack') and the puddle lights pleased me enormously. Too much so. I'm not sure why I like them so much. They add a real 'premium' feel to the car in my opinion.
The stereo - as feared - is absolute crap. I think it's a disappointment from BMW if I'm honest. The sound quality in the ST blows the BMW system into the weeds, and that's a poor show on a £27k car. It will be the first thing I sort when I get mine. Also it's very irritating that the head unit doesn't show track names or artist names during playback of MP3 discs. There's plenty of space to do it, it just seems BMW choose not to. I listen to lots of MP3 CDs in the ST and being able to search by artist or album is a must-have. I will be retro-fitting a Professional head unit and loudspeaker upgrade when I take delivery. I'm not sure about the Alpine amplifier mentioned elsewhere on the forum as if I recall correctly, it cuts in and out when the Start-Stop is in operation. That would drive me bonkers.. The stereo is the one blot on the BMW's copybook for me. It should be better as standard.
And to those who've said xenons are unnecessary, I will wholeheartedly disagree; based on the experience of night-driving with the 'normal' headlights tonight, I was almost desperate for the clear, bright beam provided by the xenons on the ST. Having had them, I could not have a car without them again.
Also why can you not 'blip' the boot open without unlocking the doors first?
Drivetrain
I'll be honest here, coming from a 270bhp ST with 345lb/ft was always going to be a slight change of direction. The 123d was never going to get close to the ST on outright pace, and my assessment of it has been borne from that mindset. Viewed in its own right, the 1er is an amazing car. Firstly there's little to give away that it's diesel once you're inside. The gear lever transmits some vibration through into the cabin, but other than that it's very quiet for a diesel and very well insulated. Once you're under way, the engine is smooth and strong, pulling cleanly and with very un-diesel-like vigour all the way to 5,000rpm. In the first few gears it's very quick, only running out of urge when asked to pull at the top end in 5th or 6th. The clutch pedal is set further to the right than I'm used to which took some getting used to, the trade-off is a clutch-footrest which the ST lacks (and is very much wanting for). The brakes are solid and nicely progressive. At no point today did I have cause to notice them which is exactly as they should be - they just did the job perfectly. The floor-hinged accelerator is unusual at first, but very comfortable. The gearbox was very stiff although that may be a trait of this car. It doesn't 'snick' between gears as easily as the box in the Focus does. Sometimes I found it intrusive and fluffed a couple of changes because it demanded a strong shove to engage.
Start-Stop is very strange to begin with. A couple of times I caught it lagging; I'm not sure how frequently I would leave the feature enabled. I'm also paranoid that people thought I was driving like a freak, although I'm sure this is unfounded.
Over the course of the day I tried different driving styles to see what would happen with the economy. The worst I averaged was around 30mpg. This was elicited through somewhat 'spirited' driving.
The best I got was at the end of the day on an economy run. I averaged nearly 60mpg on the 25-mile run home. It was relatively boring, but nice to know that the car's capable of it when required. If I split the two figures at 40-45mpg I'll be very happy.
Handling & ride
DTC. The button beckoned. I couldn't help myself.
I've driven rear drive cars on occasion before and it was interesting to see how the BM would or wouldn't put its power down. I spent most of the day with the DTC on its first setting. I tried it completely off for a while but the 'first level' allows a degree of useful slip angle whilst keeping a safety net under you. Seems very well-judged and enough to have a little fun with. In the dry, the car wasn't really powerful enough to unstick the rear without severe provocation (and I never got severe enough - I'm not daft!).
I will say this though; there were moments where the ST would've been faster getting out of corners than the BM was today. The roads I took today were ones I know intimately and I've covered 60,000 miles in the Focus so I know it well. It may be down to the tyres on the BM (they're Goodyears of some sort, that's all I recall), but it was struggling a little in the greasy conditions where I know the Focus would've gripped or simply had a wheel over-speed slightly and just taken off. That said, there was something delicious about the uncorrupted messages coming back through the steering wheel in the BMW. The steering feels very light compared to the ST, but then I run the Focus on the 'Sport' steering setting, which is the 'heaviest'. The narrower tyres on the BMW did start to let go noticeably earlier than the wider ones on the ST. The ST runs 225/40/18 all round, whereas I noticed the 1er has 205 section on the front. The test car has 17" rims which rode just fine (ride was miles better than the ST) and it seems my fears of RFTs and M-Sport suspension are unfounded - I just hope that the same is true of the 18" wheels I've spec'd.
Whilst the BMW felt sturdy and planted, the ST inspires more confidence round the corners. You're aware of just how hard you can lean on the Focus whereas with the 1er it was a little less communicative. Perhaps this is purely down to familiarity; after all, I know my car very well and I've only covered 150 miles in the BMW today. It might be considered churlish to expect the same level of intimacy with a car after such a short period of time. With time, I'm sure I'll learn to read the signals the BMW sends.
Summary
I'm still not sold on the looks, I must confess. I also noticed that other drivers refused to let me out at junctions and changing lanes. It's somewhat ironic that in order to make any progress, I had to take on a slightly more aggressive driving style - not to bully people (far from it) but merely to be able to merge into gaps and lanes, or get out of junctions. It would appear that there's an attitude/driving style catch 22 scenario here; the BMW badge DOES attract a certain attitude from other drivers and ironically means that BMW drivers have to drive in a manner that is more likely to piss others off. Sad really. The ST seems to have an 'every man' image; it's never elicited 'w
ker' signs or abuse - most people seem to respect that it's a thinking man's hot-hatch, combining pace and performance with a reasonable price tag. I get let out a LOT more easily in the Focus. The BMW badge seems to bring out the worst in people and I hope it's not indicative of what I can expect from the next 3 years of driving. I really wasn't expecting that today, and it was disheartening. It really was.
Overall then? The BMW is a great car. Performance-wise (and taken in isolation) it's very good. After the pocket-rocket that is the ST, it's somewhat lacking. However, the ST does not return an average of 40-45mpg..! The overall package is very good and I can see it will be a car I can live with day-to-day (attitudes of others notwithstanding). Would I spend £28k of my own money on one? No, probably not. However, in the context of the purchase scenario I'm in, it makes perfect sense. I will miss the ST when it goes, but I will look forward to the arrival of the 123d. One thing became clear today though; every time I get in the ST and hear the exhaust burbling away, I realise it has character and I love driving it. The 123d seems very capable, very competent but far more of a 'tool'. I go out for drives in the ST 'just because'. I can't say I'd do the same in the BMW. I'm not trying to slate the BM here, it's just that one car makes me giggle like a naughty schoolboy and the other doesn't so much.
Hopefully this little essay will be of interest to those who're in the process of looking at the 123d as a purchase proposition. I'd also welcome peoples' thoughts and feedback as to my comments, especially things like the gearbox stiffness and whether it's 'normal' or not. I'll be putting some more miles under it tomorrow.
The BMW will cost me £243/mo on top of what the company give me - but because it's so low on the emissions and falls a couple of bands under the company's target average, they'll give me an extra £15/mo bringing that figure to £228.First impressions then..
Build and interior
The overall build quality, fit and finish are excellent - this is something I know BMW do extremely well and the 1er doesn't feel in any way the 'poor relation' of the range. You can see where the extra money has gone. The doors shut with a reassuring solidity, all the buttons and switches have a delightfully positive action and one of my 'bench tests' was passed with flying colours. I know this sounds weird, but I like to see whether the windows both drop and raise at the same speed (or near enough). The BM's windows raise and lower in synchrony which is good. Incidentally, my ST fails this test badly..
The shutlines are excellent and nothing whistled or rattled today (the demo car has 5,500 miles on it so should be settling in by now) and bumps and expansion joints pass by with a muted 'whump' as opposed to crashing through the structure like they do in the ST. All the controls have a nice weight to them and the indicator and wiper stalks click with a reassuringly expensive action. The seat was very comfortable and easy to position. I like the adjustable bolsters and didn't miss having lumbar adjustment. Features like auto lights, wipers and the dimming rear view mirror are lovely and I guess whilst I haven't had them I didn't miss them - but today the little touches made the difference.Plenty of cubby-holes for storage, although the glovebox is small and the seat pockets on the backs of the front seats are mesh and not solid material which means smaller stuff can't be stored there (and it's also on view to those passing by the car). The extended lighting pack was nice (the test car came with the 'Comfort Pack') and the puddle lights pleased me enormously. Too much so. I'm not sure why I like them so much. They add a real 'premium' feel to the car in my opinion.
The stereo - as feared - is absolute crap. I think it's a disappointment from BMW if I'm honest. The sound quality in the ST blows the BMW system into the weeds, and that's a poor show on a £27k car. It will be the first thing I sort when I get mine. Also it's very irritating that the head unit doesn't show track names or artist names during playback of MP3 discs. There's plenty of space to do it, it just seems BMW choose not to. I listen to lots of MP3 CDs in the ST and being able to search by artist or album is a must-have. I will be retro-fitting a Professional head unit and loudspeaker upgrade when I take delivery. I'm not sure about the Alpine amplifier mentioned elsewhere on the forum as if I recall correctly, it cuts in and out when the Start-Stop is in operation. That would drive me bonkers.. The stereo is the one blot on the BMW's copybook for me. It should be better as standard.
And to those who've said xenons are unnecessary, I will wholeheartedly disagree; based on the experience of night-driving with the 'normal' headlights tonight, I was almost desperate for the clear, bright beam provided by the xenons on the ST. Having had them, I could not have a car without them again.
Also why can you not 'blip' the boot open without unlocking the doors first?
Drivetrain
I'll be honest here, coming from a 270bhp ST with 345lb/ft was always going to be a slight change of direction. The 123d was never going to get close to the ST on outright pace, and my assessment of it has been borne from that mindset. Viewed in its own right, the 1er is an amazing car. Firstly there's little to give away that it's diesel once you're inside. The gear lever transmits some vibration through into the cabin, but other than that it's very quiet for a diesel and very well insulated. Once you're under way, the engine is smooth and strong, pulling cleanly and with very un-diesel-like vigour all the way to 5,000rpm. In the first few gears it's very quick, only running out of urge when asked to pull at the top end in 5th or 6th. The clutch pedal is set further to the right than I'm used to which took some getting used to, the trade-off is a clutch-footrest which the ST lacks (and is very much wanting for). The brakes are solid and nicely progressive. At no point today did I have cause to notice them which is exactly as they should be - they just did the job perfectly. The floor-hinged accelerator is unusual at first, but very comfortable. The gearbox was very stiff although that may be a trait of this car. It doesn't 'snick' between gears as easily as the box in the Focus does. Sometimes I found it intrusive and fluffed a couple of changes because it demanded a strong shove to engage.
Start-Stop is very strange to begin with. A couple of times I caught it lagging; I'm not sure how frequently I would leave the feature enabled. I'm also paranoid that people thought I was driving like a freak, although I'm sure this is unfounded.
Over the course of the day I tried different driving styles to see what would happen with the economy. The worst I averaged was around 30mpg. This was elicited through somewhat 'spirited' driving.
The best I got was at the end of the day on an economy run. I averaged nearly 60mpg on the 25-mile run home. It was relatively boring, but nice to know that the car's capable of it when required. If I split the two figures at 40-45mpg I'll be very happy.Handling & ride
DTC. The button beckoned. I couldn't help myself.
I've driven rear drive cars on occasion before and it was interesting to see how the BM would or wouldn't put its power down. I spent most of the day with the DTC on its first setting. I tried it completely off for a while but the 'first level' allows a degree of useful slip angle whilst keeping a safety net under you. Seems very well-judged and enough to have a little fun with. In the dry, the car wasn't really powerful enough to unstick the rear without severe provocation (and I never got severe enough - I'm not daft!).I will say this though; there were moments where the ST would've been faster getting out of corners than the BM was today. The roads I took today were ones I know intimately and I've covered 60,000 miles in the Focus so I know it well. It may be down to the tyres on the BM (they're Goodyears of some sort, that's all I recall), but it was struggling a little in the greasy conditions where I know the Focus would've gripped or simply had a wheel over-speed slightly and just taken off. That said, there was something delicious about the uncorrupted messages coming back through the steering wheel in the BMW. The steering feels very light compared to the ST, but then I run the Focus on the 'Sport' steering setting, which is the 'heaviest'. The narrower tyres on the BMW did start to let go noticeably earlier than the wider ones on the ST. The ST runs 225/40/18 all round, whereas I noticed the 1er has 205 section on the front. The test car has 17" rims which rode just fine (ride was miles better than the ST) and it seems my fears of RFTs and M-Sport suspension are unfounded - I just hope that the same is true of the 18" wheels I've spec'd.
Whilst the BMW felt sturdy and planted, the ST inspires more confidence round the corners. You're aware of just how hard you can lean on the Focus whereas with the 1er it was a little less communicative. Perhaps this is purely down to familiarity; after all, I know my car very well and I've only covered 150 miles in the BMW today. It might be considered churlish to expect the same level of intimacy with a car after such a short period of time. With time, I'm sure I'll learn to read the signals the BMW sends.
Summary
I'm still not sold on the looks, I must confess. I also noticed that other drivers refused to let me out at junctions and changing lanes. It's somewhat ironic that in order to make any progress, I had to take on a slightly more aggressive driving style - not to bully people (far from it) but merely to be able to merge into gaps and lanes, or get out of junctions. It would appear that there's an attitude/driving style catch 22 scenario here; the BMW badge DOES attract a certain attitude from other drivers and ironically means that BMW drivers have to drive in a manner that is more likely to piss others off. Sad really. The ST seems to have an 'every man' image; it's never elicited 'w
ker' signs or abuse - most people seem to respect that it's a thinking man's hot-hatch, combining pace and performance with a reasonable price tag. I get let out a LOT more easily in the Focus. The BMW badge seems to bring out the worst in people and I hope it's not indicative of what I can expect from the next 3 years of driving. I really wasn't expecting that today, and it was disheartening. It really was.Overall then? The BMW is a great car. Performance-wise (and taken in isolation) it's very good. After the pocket-rocket that is the ST, it's somewhat lacking. However, the ST does not return an average of 40-45mpg..! The overall package is very good and I can see it will be a car I can live with day-to-day (attitudes of others notwithstanding). Would I spend £28k of my own money on one? No, probably not. However, in the context of the purchase scenario I'm in, it makes perfect sense. I will miss the ST when it goes, but I will look forward to the arrival of the 123d. One thing became clear today though; every time I get in the ST and hear the exhaust burbling away, I realise it has character and I love driving it. The 123d seems very capable, very competent but far more of a 'tool'. I go out for drives in the ST 'just because'. I can't say I'd do the same in the BMW. I'm not trying to slate the BM here, it's just that one car makes me giggle like a naughty schoolboy and the other doesn't so much.
Hopefully this little essay will be of interest to those who're in the process of looking at the 123d as a purchase proposition. I'd also welcome peoples' thoughts and feedback as to my comments, especially things like the gearbox stiffness and whether it's 'normal' or not. I'll be putting some more miles under it tomorrow.
Some people would say it's crazy to pay £230 a month for a car you'll never own. However, my car is my office and I need somewhere I'm comfortable and enjoy being. It's also more than comparable to other cars within the scheme. I'm also acutely aware that I could easily pay more than £230 a month to run my own car (and it wouldn't be anything as nice as the BMW!). If I hit 40mpg on average, I'll be MAKING money on the fuel scheme and I've worked out that the £230/mo for the car is more than offset by the costs I'm currently paying even now; £215 on fuel and £86 personal contribution for the ST = £300/mo. With the BM it'll be £230 and no fuel costs, saving me £70/month.
Bottom line is that the BMW gets almost as close on pace, handling and driver involvement whilst significantly bettering the ST in areas such as build quality, comfort, prestige and kit levels. It'll also put £850 a year back in my pocket compared with the ST I'm in now - and save me £2,340 over a new ST (even without factoring in fuel costs!).
Would I buy one with my own money? No, it'd be mad. With someone else subsidising 60% of it, no company car tax, breakdown cover with hire car provided, all maintenance, repairs, servicing, road tax and insurance paid for?
Yes. It is a complete no-brainer.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
HTH.
ETA: BTW since I wrote that back in January, petrol prices have overtaken diesel again so the 1er's working out even better value-for-money. Additionally, my car came with Dunlops fitted which are miles better than the Goodyears fitted to the test car.
Edited by Funk on Monday 27th July 13:08
Funk - whats the best MPG you have achieved so far in the 123d? Is there any niggles at all with the trim?
Would you now opt for the 325d (if it were the same price) over the 123d as headline numbers are the same but Im guessing the 325d 6 cyl jobbie might be he beter unit?? Not driven one so cannot comment.
Would you now opt for the 325d (if it were the same price) over the 123d as headline numbers are the same but Im guessing the 325d 6 cyl jobbie might be he beter unit?? Not driven one so cannot comment.
Best I've had has been around 55mpg.
I think I'd still take the 123d over the 325d as I don't need the extra space the 3-series provides. I also like the delivery of the 123d's twin-turbo unit, it revs with the enthusiasm of a petrol unit and is very refined. If I were pushed to a 3-series, I'd look to the 330d unit I think.
No niggles at all with the trim; I wasn't aware that there was potential issues with that?
I think I'd still take the 123d over the 325d as I don't need the extra space the 3-series provides. I also like the delivery of the 123d's twin-turbo unit, it revs with the enthusiasm of a petrol unit and is very refined. If I were pushed to a 3-series, I'd look to the 330d unit I think.
No niggles at all with the trim; I wasn't aware that there was potential issues with that?
Edited by Funk on Monday 27th July 17:44
Welshbeef said:
Nigel H said:
I guess as it doesn't sell. It's VERY expensive as a new car, as 6 to 12 month car under BWM AUC scheme its cheaper than a new 123d
Similar price to the S3 & R32 which it competes against, are they struggling too? I was looking at going for a S3, but the 135i is now my prefered choice for next car.
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