4 wheel drive Saloons
Discussion
Am I the only one who wants a 4 wheel drive version of the 5 series but not a X5 ?
Have driven my 5 SERIES E90 Sport in ski resorts over Christmas for the last 3 years with no dramas but when it snowed in the UK last year I couldn't get the car off our flat drive due to lack of traction ! Lost confidence in it a little .
Have driven my 5 SERIES E90 Sport in ski resorts over Christmas for the last 3 years with no dramas but when it snowed in the UK last year I couldn't get the car off our flat drive due to lack of traction ! Lost confidence in it a little .
4WD Saloon? Simple solution = Audi.
Oh and for the BMW Fanboys who'll jump all over this, I'm not being controversial I'm just offering a solution to the question as Audi have a long history of 4WD saloon/estates and there are plenty for sale in all different guises and although BMW do also make 4WD's they are a lot rarer in this country. Buying an Audi would be a simple fix.
Oh and for the BMW Fanboys who'll jump all over this, I'm not being controversial I'm just offering a solution to the question as Audi have a long history of 4WD saloon/estates and there are plenty for sale in all different guises and although BMW do also make 4WD's they are a lot rarer in this country. Buying an Audi would be a simple fix.
BMW UK spent a lot of money during the 70's promoting the RWD sporty nature of their cars, that is why they never pushed the AWD cars over here, offering only a 525xi I think it was.
It was BMW UKs decision to not bring them over in case it diluted the sporty nature of the brand.
BMW sell more 4WD cars than any other Euro manufacturer, outselling Audi on that front.
Also, buying an Audi still means you are buying a very safe and dull car, where as the BMW 530xi for example feels just like the 530i, it is a very different experience to an Audi.
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
BMW should bring the X cars over here now, they would sell well.
One other thing to mention, we seem to write off the need for winter tyres over here, they are designed to work at temperatures below 8ºc, the softer compound works at these lower temps to give increased grip, the tread pattern also makes wet roads, and snow a breeze to handle.
If we were made to put them on from Nov to Feb we wouldn't need 4WD cars.
There is a great video of 2 mercs on youtube, both E class saloons, one is their 4matic and one the standard RWD car, on summer tyres both were as useless as each other, the 4wd car on summer tyres was a mess against the rwd car with winter tyres on.
Tyres make more difference than having 4wd, and you can buy a set of winter 17s with tyres for around £600, and you will see 5 winters out of them, so around £120 a winter.
Worth considering.
It was BMW UKs decision to not bring them over in case it diluted the sporty nature of the brand.
BMW sell more 4WD cars than any other Euro manufacturer, outselling Audi on that front.
Also, buying an Audi still means you are buying a very safe and dull car, where as the BMW 530xi for example feels just like the 530i, it is a very different experience to an Audi.
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
BMW should bring the X cars over here now, they would sell well.
One other thing to mention, we seem to write off the need for winter tyres over here, they are designed to work at temperatures below 8ºc, the softer compound works at these lower temps to give increased grip, the tread pattern also makes wet roads, and snow a breeze to handle.
If we were made to put them on from Nov to Feb we wouldn't need 4WD cars.
There is a great video of 2 mercs on youtube, both E class saloons, one is their 4matic and one the standard RWD car, on summer tyres both were as useless as each other, the 4wd car on summer tyres was a mess against the rwd car with winter tyres on.
Tyres make more difference than having 4wd, and you can buy a set of winter 17s with tyres for around £600, and you will see 5 winters out of them, so around £120 a winter.
Worth considering.
Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 30th August 13:22
gizlaroc said:
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that. Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 30th August 13:22
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
T89 Callan said:
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that.
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
Not really, it's pretty common opinion that the Audi's tend to be duller than the BMW's in terms of 'sheer driving pleasure'. Probably because most of them are front wheel drive. Audi just don't seem to 'do' drivers cars properly bar the R8. Even the TT-RS managed to get itself only 3.5 stars in it's Autocar roadtest because it just wasn't a drivers tool, apparently.I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
Fox- said:
T89 Callan said:
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that.
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
Not really, it's pretty common opinion that the Audi's tend to be duller than the BMW's in terms of 'sheer driving pleasure'. Probably because most of them are front wheel drive. Audi just don't seem to 'do' drivers cars properly bar the R8. Even the TT-RS managed to get itself only 3.5 stars in it's Autocar roadtest because it just wasn't a drivers tool, apparently.I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
T89 Callan said:
gizlaroc said:
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that. Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 30th August 13:22
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
Perhaps it was just that type of Audi, A4 1.8 tq sline.
T89 Callan said:
gizlaroc said:
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that. Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 30th August 13:22
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
A3 DSG S-Line
3.0 A4 Sport Cab
S4 Avant (absolutely the worse car I have ever had the misfortune to own!!! horrible, horrible thing!!)
and currently drive a 3.2 fsi A6 Avant.
Of course every ones personal opinion is subjective, it is after all your personal opinion. But I feel I am qualified to give an opinion as I own both too.
The BMWs I have owned over the last 3 years have been....
1 series m-sport auto
535d sport touring
335i sport touring
and I currently have an SMG M3
I feel there is enough of an equal between both marques regarding size of vehichle to give a fair comparison over the course of 20-40k miles in each one, and I stick to my opinion that in comparison the Audis are extremely boring, but that is what I want from my Audi, a nice comfortable, safe feeling car to drive around in and gobble the miles.
Audi admit they build in understeer because that is what they Audi customer knows and wants. As I say, they are boring, boring, boring.*
- Exceptions are the RS4, R8 and the new S4 3.0T. And I hear the new TT RS is quite good fun, but it has no appeal to me as I am not a fan of the feminine lines of the car so I would never have the urge to try it myself.
Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 31st August 11:40
T89 Callan said:
gizlaroc said:
Audis are comfortable and nice, there is no drama but at the same time there is no excitement, they are boring, boring boring, which is what a lot of people want from them of course.
You've desended into subjective opinion here, and a ridiculous one at that. Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 30th August 13:22
I own both marques and "boring boring boring" is definately not a term I would have used to describe any of the Audi's I have driven.
A3 DSG S-Line
3.0 A4 Sport Cab
S4 Avant (absolutely the worse car I have ever had the misfortune to own!!! horrible, horrible thing!!)
and currently drive a 3.2 fsi A6 Avant.
Of course every ones personal opinion is subjective, it is after all your personal opinion. But I feel I am qualified to give an opinion as I own both too.
The BMWs I have owned over the last 3 years have been....
1 series m-sport auto
535d sport touring
335i sport touring
and I currently have an SMG M3
I feel there is enough of an equal between both marques regarding size of vehichle to give a fair comparison over the course of 20-40k miles in each one, and I stick to my opinion that in comparison the Audis are extremely boring, but that is what I want from my Audi, a nice comfortable, safe feeling car to drive around in and gobble the miles.
Audi admit they build in understeer because that is what they Audi customer knows and wants. As I say, they are boring, boring, boring.*
- Exceptions are the RS4, R8 and the new S4 3.0T. And I hear the new TT RS is quite good fun, but it has no appeal to me as I am not a fan of the feminine lines of the car so I would never have the urge to try it myself.
Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 31st August 11:56
gizlaroc said:
Tyres make more difference than having 4wd, and you can buy a set of winter 17s with tyres for around £600, and you will see 5 winters out of them, so around £120 a winter.
Can you? My son paid more than that for the snow tyres alone (Vredestein) for his 123d, and then the same again for a set of alloys off ebay (actually, he paid £750 for new 18's with new tyres on, and then used his original 17's for the snow tyres). And then he had to buy the trolley jack and torque wrench. He did shop around both in the UK and in France before buying. Agree that the result is excellent - provided you can be bothered with the effort of swapping wheels around. For my son, the decision to get snow tyres was implicit in choosing a rwd car.
He has skied in New Zealand this summer and last - there he spent his £600 on a 20 year old 4WD Subaru, which took him up the mountain reliably every day on summer tyres (he used chains once in four months, because the police insisted) and he sold it this year on leaving for £500. Now that's good value motoring.
Merc like BMW sell lots of 4WD saloons in other markets but don't offer them here - I guess that both know their markets, I don't suppose that they would sell many. Apart from Audi, the choice of 4WD non-SUV's also includes Bentley, Porsche, Subaru, Volvo, Skoda and for a short while Jaguar.
waremark said:
gizlaroc said:
Tyres make more difference than having 4wd, and you can buy a set of winter 17s with tyres for around £600, and you will see 5 winters out of them, so around £120 a winter.
Can you? My son paid more than that for the snow tyres alone (Vredestein) for his 123d, and then the same again for a set of alloys off ebay So not quite £600 but pretty close.
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