E60 - 535d - Break Ins

[linkup1234]

Can anyone enlighten me on this one. I have a n E60 (2006) parked on the street in London and twice this year in the early hours a thief comes round and is able to open the alarmed/locked doors without any commotion and with absolutely no damage to the car door. Thankfully we've not kept anything in the car worth stealing, however I've now found out 2 neaighbours with a E39 and E60 BMW's have had the exact same problem of late. Notably none of our cars have been stolen, and in our case we have both keys, so presumably there is another security issue at play?!

Before you ask we filed crime reports and attempted to speak to BMW UK, who said no one has requested a replacement key. I was also told the cost of all new keys is circa £600 but my issue with this is I'm buggered if I'm spending that sort of money to fix what presumably is a asecurity fault with BMW to only find out it happens again.

Anyone heard of this and know what I can do to get BMW to fix this issue? I'm also concerned about my insurance position on this one as well.

[agxster]

Same thing happened to me with my VW Jetta last January. It has become a very common problem as the encryption technology used by many car manufacturers has been hacked. That means they can easily de-code the signal from your key fob to lock/unlock your car.

Not a lot you can do really, other then install a 3rd party alarm system that uses better/different encyption technology.

see here:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/researche...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-237...

Edited by agxster on Friday 16th October 15:16

Edited by agxster on Friday 16th October 15:21

[Digger]

Hmmm thinking out loud here but can you get a two tier type alarm system where for instance you can deactivate alarm with fob. Second tier keeps alarm active but deactivated when doors unlocked with key in lock.

[linkup1234]

Bugger just as I thought, no point paying for new keys as their bug will probably pick this up as well. Also explains how they can't drive away as all they have is the algo in their bug to play back.

[phelix]

Lock the car with the key - that still sets the alarm, at least on my E61.

[Swoxy]

How about fitting another alarm in addition to the existing one?

[Deva Link]

Hasn't this always been an issue with BMW's? One of my neighbours has a previous generation 5 Series and that was opened with no damage and no alarm going off, and same happened to my BIL (and he'd left his wife's jewellery Christmas present in the glove box ). Both those incidents were a few years ago.

With my neighbour's car BMW said it shouldn't be possible and they kept the car for a week but he's not aware that they did anything other than replacing the CD changer ripped from the boot FOC.

[linkup1234]

Again we were broken into in the dead of night.....BMW are useless and I can't think of way to thwart the scum on this one? Would a second alarm really work or would this have the same issues?

[linkup1234]

Again we were broken into in the dead of night.....BMW are useless and I can't think of way to thwart the scum on this one? Would a second alarm really work or would this have the same issues?

[bmw2002]

It is something that BMW are aware of, its been ongoing for ages...

This from last summer:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-237...

[B3pete]

Just seen this thread.My 120d auto ,twice in 6 months ,sure I had locked it.

[aircooler]

I don't understand why the secure systems can't use similar/same technology as bank 'securekey' systems. Basically, on request of access the system transmits a code to which the keyfob transmits another code that's recognised by the receiving system. Each time the code transmitted/received is different (but fits in within a range defined by an algorithm). Therefore, if the code to open the door on one occasion is recorded, it's useless on the next and all other occasions.

[DennisCooper]

Hi there,

I'm sorry to hear of these problems you are facing, and I can understand just how frustrating it is and can be. In this case it's BMW that's been targetted, but this type of scenario could and probably does happen to other brand cars too.

For the most part, it seems a very tiny part of the population that has access to this hacked software/code grabber or whatever gizmo they have in order to open a car and sift through it's belongings and leave again just as quietly.

Unfortunatley it looks like you are going to have to spend some money in thwarting them or at least, diverting them away from your car so that it doesn't happen again.

The first has been mentioned - professionally fitting a secondary alarm from a reputable brand in order to give that 2nd layer of defence.

I'd like to provide another option that can be used in conjunction with the alarm you have now and/or with the secondary one.

New devices onto the market are all in one night vision capable security recording devices. They record anything that happens from within the car. You could mount it discreetly to 'catch' the lowlife the next time he feels like sifting through your car, or perhaps place it prominently and leave a printed A4 piece of paper on the dash saying 'Video Recording in Operation' - if the dimwit STILL rummages through hopefully you'll catch him on camera. Whilst I'm unsure if video evidence like this is admissable in court, you could perhaps post up the video on a forum to see if anyone knows him? - a kind of name and shame? - again, not sure if you're allowed to do this, and knowing the 'soft touch' that is the UK, you'll probably get fined for breaching the theifs human rights or something.

These new video recording devices are used in Taxi's for instance to cover against any mishaps etc. Some solutions are quite pricey - £300+ levels, but I beleive there are cheaper alternatives.

Also, as I'm sure you are keeping nothing at all in the car that can be taken, maybe soon he/she will give up and move on? but that's hardly a nice thing, knowing that this pondlife is still able to access your car.

Hope this gives some food for thought

Cheers, Dennis! West London & Slough UK!

[58warren]

aircooler said:

I don't understand why the secure systems can't use similar/same technology as bank 'securekey' systems. Basically, on request of access the system transmits a code to which the keyfob transmits another code that's recognised by the receiving system. Each time the code transmitted/received is different (but fits in within a range defined by an algorithm). Therefore, if the code to open the door on one occasion is recorded, it's useless on the next and all other occasions.

I always thought that the BMW system worked as you describe above, with the code changing each time the remote is presses to unlock the car. I'm sure I read somewhere that's how it works?

[aircooler]

58warren said:

aircooler said:

I don't understand why the secure systems can't use similar/same technology as bank 'securekey' systems. Basically, on request of access the system transmits a code to which the keyfob transmits another code that's recognised by the receiving system. Each time the code transmitted/received is different (but fits in within a range defined by an algorithm). Therefore, if the code to open the door on one occasion is recorded, it's useless on the next and all other occasions.

I always thought that the BMW system worked as you describe above, with the code changing each time the remote is presses to unlock the car. I'm sure I read somewhere that's how it works?

Well, if so and it's recorded by some device, surely it would be usless on the next entry?

[MaximumJed]

inkiboo said:

58warren said:

aircooler said:

I don't understand why the secure systems can't use similar/same technology as bank 'securekey' systems. Basically, on request of access the system transmits a code to which the keyfob transmits another code that's recognised by the receiving system. Each time the code transmitted/received is different (but fits in within a range defined by an algorithm). Therefore, if the code to open the door on one occasion is recorded, it's useless on the next and all other occasions.

I always thought that the BMW system worked as you describe above, with the code changing each time the remote is presses to unlock the car. I'm sure I read somewhere that's how it works?

I thought that too and then thought "How does my wife's key work if they keep on changing the code?"

The car and the key contain algorithms that take the used code and generate the next code from it, allowing the car and key to stay in sync. The problem is that the algorithm is what has been cracked, so by reading enough of the codes that are sent, an appropriate next code can be generated and sent, unlocking the car. It's a common way of breaking crypto systems, DECT phones have just been done in the same way making it possible to snoop on phone calls and capture data from wireless credit card machines.