HELP! E61 is difficult to start because of "fault" messages

[gttastic]

I have recently encountered problems trying to start the engine on my BMW E61 525D (2004/54).

When I turn the key I sometimes get the following "fault" messages which prevents the engine from starting. These are:-

1) Fuel pump fault
2) Cruise control failure
3) Level control system fault
4) Drive control system fault

These messages can appear in any order, sometimes just 1 message, other times more than 1.

After numerous attempts though, the car starts, although I usually find that the "DTC" stability/traction control system is not operable.

It has got to the stage now where it happens virtually every morning upon starting the car for the first time. It seems to affect the car more when it is cold outside (it only started happening a few weeks ago - it was fine through Spring and Summer). It must be pointed out however, that once the car has sucessfully fired up, it starts up fine for the remainder of the day (although I had further problems starting it later one evening after the car had been stood for about 10 hours).

It has been to my local indy BMW garage but, has luck would have it, it did not happen for them! (It was quite mild a couple of weeks ago though). The garage said they did various tests but their diagnostics did not point out any faults.

The problem now is that I cannot start it at all now! (this seems to coincide with the colder mornings at the moment). I need to do this because it is booked into the garage again for Monday morning so that they can look into things a bit further.

My indy says that they are bit puzzled as to what it might be, and that they have not come across this problem before.

As a last resort, I am turning to the internet to see if anybody else has experienced the same problem so that I can get my car on the road again.

Thanks in advance for any tips/help/sympathy etc...

Edited by gttastic on Thursday 5th November 13:39

[scott10005]

Hi gttastic,When the engine fails to start does the starter motor crank and the engine just fail to fire up? Also is it a diesel? If the answer to these is yes i would recomend replacing the dde relay (blue 4 pin relay in e-box).The ebox is at the passengers side of the engine bay and its where the engine control unit is located,looks just like a black box,the relay is buried in there.The relay is just a normal type relay,nothing fancy,but if it fails it stops the dde switching on and that would cause the ptcan network to flag up the same kind of check control messages your getting.
Good luck,
Scott

[john_p]

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2...

so crankshaft sensor, DDE relay, fuel pump ?

Edited by john_p on Thursday 5th November 15:11

[gttastic]

scott10005 said:

Hi gttastic,When the engine fails to start does the starter motor crank and the engine just fail to fire up? Also is it a diesel? If the answer to these is yes i would recomend replacing the dde relay (blue 4 pin relay in e-box).The ebox is at the passengers side of the engine bay and its where the engine control unit is located,looks just like a black box,the relay is buried in there.The relay is just a normal type relay,nothing fancy,but if it fails it stops the dde switching on and that would cause the ptcan network to flag up the same kind of check control messages your getting.
Good luck,
Scott

Hi Scott. Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the starter motor cranks fine but the engine just fails to fire up.

Yes, it is a diesel manual - a 525D Touring. (I wanted a petrol manual Touring but they appear to be a difficult find)

Are DDE relays readily available or do I have to buy the part from my local BMW main dealer?
Any idea how much we are talking for the part?
I take it it is a straightforward DIY fitment?
Do I need to take the battery off to do this job?

Thanks again for the advice.

[gttastic]

john_p said:

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2...

so crankshaft sensor, DDE relay, fuel pump ?

Edited by john_p on Thursday 5th November 15:11

Thanks for your reply, john_p.

In your experience, do you think all 3 things you mention might need resolving on my car, either straight away or over time?

Any ideas as to cost of each job?

I think I might change the DDE relay first as this appears to be the cheapest option to start with.

[scott10005]

The relays are about £8 ish i think,the parts guys normally need the number off the old relay as the parts catalogue doesn't list what each relay is for and it might be used for different systems. Depending on the dealership they might have one in stock,you don't need to disconnect anything,just swap it over. The faulty ones i have come across seem to have burnt contacts inside them which causes the intermittent fault,then once a good contact is made is remains on. It can store a fault memory entry so it may be worth while getting the dde control unit read would also show if anything else was causing it. Its the first thing for your symptoms i would try,as its easiest/cheapest and the most common fault i have come across especially with your engine. I have had a car before that the control unit not the relay that was at fault,peversely it requires the control unit to switch the dde relay on that then switches the control unit on. Hope this helps

[gttastic]

scott10005 said:

The relays are about £8 ish i think,the parts guys normally need the number off the old relay as the parts catalogue doesn't list what each relay is for and it might be used for different systems. Depending on the dealership they might have one in stock,you don't need to disconnect anything,just swap it over. The faulty ones i have come across seem to have burnt contacts inside them which causes the intermittent fault,then once a good contact is made is remains on. It can store a fault memory entry so it may be worth while getting the dde control unit read would also show if anything else was causing it. Its the first thing for your symptoms i would try,as its easiest/cheapest and the most common fault i have come across especially with your engine. I have had a car before that the control unit not the relay that was at fault,peversely it requires the control unit to switch the dde relay on that then switches the control unit on. Hope this helps

Thanks for the advice Scott.

I had a very quick look under the bonnet this morning (I didn't have long because I was late for work).

I saw the ECU black box but could not find the "ebox". Are there 2 boxes? The ECU black box was at the driver's side of the engine bay - I did not see any other black boxes on the passenger side. The ECU black box was mounted on its side and appeared to have 4 small torx key bolts holding the lid on and is about 5 or 6 inches square in size. I take it the DDE relay in not inside this box, but another box, somewhere else?

As I said, I only had time for a very quick look (the car did not start BTW) so I might have missed something.

I phoned up my local BMW dealership this morning and asked how much for a DDE relay - the man said £725+VAT
I guess he must have quoted for something different!!!

[ganjeeman]

I have these same problems on my 05 e60 i think where my dpf filter has split in half the hot carbon deposits nd heat have melted the vaccuum hose for the brakes twice now nd the loom behind the engine had now been melted together mine will not start atall but i got dash lights i have the same error messages about fuelpump,abs,check controll problems, tansmission faults but when i connect to obd i can read every module but not the engine ecu i replaced that blue relay but still dead it says relay 1 has gone down i spent 2 days checking everyrhing nd the onli thing i can find is all the wires seemed to be joined together right at the back of the engine, nightmare to get it out