Snow chains

[custardkid]

Going to Megeve in January and thinking of taking the Z4MC but have some questions:

- is it a legal requirement to have snow chains?
- can you get chains to fit a Z4m?
- will they destroy my arches?

cheers
Custard

[Ranger 6]

- is it a legal requirement to have snow chains?
Yes, French law, you must at least carry them in the car
- can you get chains to fit a Z4m?
Probably
- will they destroy my arches?
only if they're the wrong size/type & badly fitted

[Silver993tt]

you'd be better off with a set of winter tyres. These are also very useful in the UK between November and March.

[0836whimper]

In France if it’s snowing and you have gone past the sign saying as such, you need metal chains by law (always used to be the case anyway). Different elsewhere.

You’ll struggle to fit an M car with chains, I did the research when I bought my 330d sport touring, it wouldn’t take chains (not enough clearance under the arches). I couldn't justify winter tyres and wheels, so I bought some snowsocks for the 18’s. I kept them in the boot but never used them, even on a trip to the alps.

I have sold the tourer and the new car has 19’s, so have just put the snow socks on ebay. I haven’t used them to give an assessment (others on here have) but they gave me peace of mind I wouldn’t get stuck, especially as last winter was pretty cold and snowy.

I have two sets for sale, here if interested http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

[Silver993tt]

0836whimper said:

In France if it’s snowing and you have gone past the sign saying as such, you need metal chains by law (always used to be the case anyway). Different elsewhere.

You’ll struggle to fit an M car with chains, I did the research when I bought my 330d sport touring, it wouldn’t take chains (not enough clearance under the arches). I couldn't justify winter tyres and wheels, so I bought some snowsocks for the 18’s. I kept them in the boot but never used them, even on a trip to the alps.

I have sold the tourer and the new car has 19’s, so have just put the snow socks on ebay. I haven’t used them to give an assessment (others on here have) but they gave me peace of mind I wouldn’t get stuck, especially as last winter was pretty cold and snowy.

I have two sets for sale, here if interested http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

Why couldn't you justify winter tyres? There are very useful in the UK for at least 4 months of the year and are much safer during this period than summer tyres.

[Ranger 6]

Different to an M car I know but I've just bought some Michelin Alpins for the X3 - hopefully the difference to the standard Pirelli Scorpion M+S tyres will justify the change.

[Ranger 6]

I was just looking to see what would fit yours and found this manual - see page 29 - chains should only be fitted to the Z4M with 225/40/18 winter tyres.
http://www.bmwz4roadster.net/brochure/2006_Z4_M_Co...

However if you want chains to fit 225/40/18s then they have some here for £25 which look very like mine.
http://www.toys4cars.co.uk/index.php?main_page=pro...

[0836whimper]

Silver993tt said:

0836whimper said:

In France if it’s snowing and you have gone past the sign saying as such, you need metal chains by law (always used to be the case anyway). Different elsewhere.

You’ll struggle to fit an M car with chains, I did the research when I bought my 330d sport touring, it wouldn’t take chains (not enough clearance under the arches). I couldn't justify winter tyres and wheels, so I bought some snowsocks for the 18’s. I kept them in the boot but never used them, even on a trip to the alps.

I have sold the tourer and the new car has 19’s, so have just put the snow socks on ebay. I haven’t used them to give an assessment (others on here have) but they gave me peace of mind I wouldn’t get stuck, especially as last winter was pretty cold and snowy very often.

I have two sets for sale, here if interested http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

Why couldn't you justify winter tyres? There are very useful in the UK for at least 4 months of the year and are much safer during this period than summer tyres.

Because I haven't used the socks or been stuck in the last couple of years, I don't drive to work and so generally just leave the car on the drive when the weather gets snowy. Even more so now with an SMG M3, that's not going anywhere. If I did more driving I would consider them. Snow socks are cheap hassle free alternative for when it's generally not snowy.

Both sets sold now.

[custardkid]

winter tyres are brilliant but at c£200 a corner bit of an expense for a weeks skiing.

they dont do snow socks big enough

dont like the thought of snow chains taking a chunk out of my car / CSLs

whats the smallest/narrowest wheels you can fit to an z4m/m3?

cheers
Paul

[Ranger 6]

A common misconception is that chains sh*g your wheels. They don't - unless you fit them badly. The chains wrap over the tyres and don't actually touch the wheels at all, so the only way they would damage your wheels is if you then drive into the kerb and push the chain against the wheel.

The same thing for taking chunks out of your car, they will only do that if they're loose or the wrong size.

I know the arch clearance is different, but these were standard wheels and not a mark was made.

[gingerpaul]

custardkid said:

winter tyres are brilliant but at c£200 a corner bit of an expense for a weeks skiing.

they dont do snow socks big enough

dont like the thought of snow chains taking a chunk out of my car / CSLs

whats the smallest/narrowest wheels you can fit to an z4m/m3?

cheers
Paul

It's like a mini hoon reunion in here. Somebody get Steve in here.

I needed chains to get out of Val Thorens back in January and it had snowed so hard I kept them on almost all the way to the motorway. This was driving a car with snow tyres too so they're well worth having!

I'd get some cheap wheels and tyres off ebay. I wouldn't get them with sports rubber if you can help it but I wouldn't buy snow tyres specifically. Then just get a pair of chains.

I suppose you need to know what the smallest diameter wheels you can get away with fitting are for the coupe. Clearing the brakes might be an issue!

One final thing. Although they wouldn't clear your arches with your current wheels I did buy chains in a supermarket in France a couple of years ago for a Ford S-Max that hand some pretty big wheels (for a Ford). The chains went up to some pretty crazy sizes.

Edited to add the final bit.

Edited by gingerpaul on Friday 4th December 12:12

[aircooler]

0836whimper said:

Silver993tt said:

0836whimper said:

In France if it’s snowing and you have gone past the sign saying as such, you need metal chains by law (always used to be the case anyway). Different elsewhere.

You’ll struggle to fit an M car with chains, I did the research when I bought my 330d sport touring, it wouldn’t take chains (not enough clearance under the arches). I couldn't justify winter tyres and wheels, so I bought some snowsocks for the 18’s. I kept them in the boot but never used them, even on a trip to the alps.

I have sold the tourer and the new car has 19’s, so have just put the snow socks on ebay. I haven’t used them to give an assessment (others on here have) but they gave me peace of mind I wouldn’t get stuck, especially as last winter was pretty cold and snowy very often.

I have two sets for sale, here if interested http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

Why couldn't you justify winter tyres? There are very useful in the UK for at least 4 months of the year and are much safer during this period than summer tyres.

Because I haven't used the socks or been stuck in the last couple of years, I don't drive to work and so generally just leave the car on the drive when the weather gets snowy. Even more so now with an SMG M3, that's not going anywhere. If I did more driving I would consider them. Snow socks are cheap hassle free alternative for when it's generally not snowy.

Both sets sold now.

er, winter tyres aren't just for snow, although that is a common misconception in the UK. They're far more efficientat any temperature below 8C, especially when the roads are damp or wet - just like in the UK between November & March. Norther Germany for instance has very similar weather to the UK and yet most people will swap over their wheels for the October-April season

[0836whimper]

Agree we are the odd ones out, but that's geography. They drive in mainland Europe where it's a colder continental climate and if the go south or east (maybe to ski) they will drive and they may as well leave their winter tyres on for the season.

In the UK the balance is the other side, not that many people drive to ski, the climate is generally warmer and moister and the hassle and cost of winter tyres is in most cases not worth it. It's close I think, and extended cold snaps make you think if we have got it right, but before you know it some warm westerlies roll in off the atlantic again.

I wonder if the Irish or the Belgians also mostly swap tyres for the winter.

Now I've said that I am clearly going to stack it as soon as I roll off my drive, a la Tiger

[madou]

aircooler said:

er, winter tyres aren't just for snow, although that is a common misconception in the UK. They're far more efficient at any temperature below 8C, especially when the roads are damp or wet - just like in the UK between November & March. Northern Germany for instance has very similar weather to the UK and yet most people will swap over their wheels for the October-April season

Yes. Not everyone accepts the principle. Some will learn from experience

2009 ADAC Winter Tyre Test

[aircooler]

0836whimper said:

Agree we are the odd ones out, but that's geography. They drive in mainland Europe where it's a colder continental climate and if the go south or east (maybe to ski) they will drive and they may as well leave their winter tyres on for the season.

In the UK the balance is the other side, not that many people drive to ski, the climate is generally warmer and moister and the hassle and cost of winter tyres is in most cases not worth it. It's close I think, and extended cold snaps make you think if we have got it right, but before you know it some warm westerlies roll in off the atlantic again.

I wonder if the Irish or the Belgians also mostly swap tyres for the winter.

Now I've said that I am clearly going to stack it as soon as I roll off my drive, a la Tiger

it's nothing to do with geography since most of the UK has the same climateas Belgium and northern Germany. It's just a cultural thing and short term thinking. Everyone I know in Germany (and that includes the north, same climate as the UK pretty much), stores their winter wheels at their local garage. Costs about 40 euros a year and that includes swapping summer to winter and then winter to summer. The garages in the UK would of course charge much, much more (so no one would bother to use the service) because it's cultural in the UK to think short term.

[0836whimper]

aircooler said:

0836whimper said:

Agree we are the odd ones out, but that's geography. They drive in mainland Europe where it's a colder continental climate and if the go south or east (maybe to ski) they will drive and they may as well leave their winter tyres on for the season.

In the UK the balance is the other side, not that many people drive to ski, the climate is generally warmer and moister and the hassle and cost of winter tyres is in most cases not worth it. It's close I think, and extended cold snaps make you think if we have got it right, but before you know it some warm westerlies roll in off the atlantic again.

I wonder if the Irish or the Belgians also mostly swap tyres for the winter.

Now I've said that I am clearly going to stack it as soon as I roll off my drive, a la Tiger

it's nothing to do with geography since most of the UK has the same climateas Belgium and northern Germany. It's just a cultural thing and short term thinking. Everyone I know in Germany (and that includes the north, same climate as the UK pretty much), stores their winter wheels at their local garage. Costs about 40 euros a year and that includes swapping summer to winter and then winter to summer. The garages in the UK would of course charge much, much more (so no one would bother to use the service) because it's cultural in the UK to think short term.

Agree it's partly cultural, but geography is a factor. The gulf stream keeps the UK warmer for it's latitude compared to mainland europe - fact. You don't have to move far away from the moderating influence of the ocean for the climate to become consistently colder. For most people in the UK (and I would also argue Belgium and Ireland) the compromised handling and economy characteristics of winter tyres aren't worth it for the cost and short bursts of benefit. So most people don't bother, unlike as you say most people in Germany who do.

[madou]

0836whimper said:

For most people in the UK (and I would also argue Belgium and Ireland) the compromised handling and economy characteristics of winter tyres aren't worth it for the cost and short bursts of benefit

Ever visited the Ardennes in winter ? Even De Haan on the coast gets very cold. And of course, people from these regions get along so well Thanks to Van Rumpy

[0836whimper]

madou said:

0836whimper said:

For most people in the UK (and I would also argue Belgium and Ireland) the compromised handling and economy characteristics of winter tyres aren't worth it for the cost and short bursts of benefit

Ever visited the Ardennes in winter ? Even De Haan on the coast gets very cold. And of course, people from these regions get along so well Thanks to Van Rumpy

Yes - I lived in Belgium for many years.

[custardkid]

[aircooler]

How often between November and March is the temp at 8C or lower (especially between the times of 18:00-09:00)? I would say much of the time. I use winter tyres during these months and the safety benefits are enormous.