Thinking of buying an e30, what are they like and any tips?
Discussion
Hi all,
Recently aquired a company car so its now time to sell my focus and get decent weekend car.
Ive always loved the idea of an e30, so think i may go for a 2 door 325/323, just thinking about a straight six and rear wheel drive is driving me crazy!
Does anyone reccomend a particular spec or engine? Any to avoid? Also what are they like relaibilty wise?
Any contribution is greatly appreciated.
Recently aquired a company car so its now time to sell my focus and get decent weekend car.
Ive always loved the idea of an e30, so think i may go for a 2 door 325/323, just thinking about a straight six and rear wheel drive is driving me crazy!
Does anyone reccomend a particular spec or engine? Any to avoid? Also what are they like relaibilty wise?
Any contribution is greatly appreciated.
What's your budget?
I have two currently and am not impartial. I absolutely love them so this will probably be a bit biased in as much as there are plenty of fun rwd cars out there to buy of this sort of age (corolla with the ae86 engine springs to mind off the top of my head) but I think e30's are the next MkI/II escort.
But assuming we get past that and you still want an E30 here goes.
Buy on condition not price. Let me repeat that. Buy on condition.
Mechanically they are straightforward and parts are plentiful from BMW and various other sources.
They all rust. But pay particular attention if it's a saloon.
It's the body and trim that is key to a good e30.
I have two tourings (a 320 and a 325i - check my profile). Tourings and cabriolets seem not to rust as much as saloons.
Rear arches. Any rust showing is bad news. they rust from the inside out.
front scuttle (under windscreen).
rear number plate (behind it).
Under the side skirts. (horror stories can be found lurking here)
front inner wings
inside the sunroof (open sunroof and use torch to try and look into the recess.
inner wings - crouch beside car with front door open. are the carpets wet in the foorwell? Pull carpet back if possible - hope you don't find anything.
Check under the battery (in the boot for saloons).
Pull all the carpet up eveywhere (within reason and check underneath.
They rust whilst you watch them.....!
If you have access to a mechanic and welder chap - all the better. If you can do it yourself - perfect.
These cars need constant tlc and prefer regular use to once a month.
In terms of engine and spec.
Don't let anyone kid you into thinking that a 320 is as good as a 325. In every way the 325 is better apart from the fact that the 320 is a little bit smoother. quicker, more economical, much more interesting drive, quicker, quicker, er, quicker......!
You might see a big price difference between regular 325's and motorsport 325's (people make a big deal of mentioning it says motorsport in the log book). Although they do tend to be much, much better specced they are exactly the same engine.
For driving involvement I'd ideally try to find one with an LSD already fitted BUT plenty come up for sale (£150-350 max depending on condition) and retro fitting is as straight forward as removal of the old open unit.
Then it comes down to the interior. There are various cloth specs and leather spec seats ranging from 'comfort' cloth (you have to grip the steering wheel to stop falling out of the car) right up to ultra rare recaro high-backs in better specced M3's.
I have a sport leather interior and it's a very nice place to be (considering it's 21 yrs old!).
Cruise control, air con, driving/trip computer (not to be confused with the OBC above the rear-view mirror) are all nice to have but if your particular rust-free specimen doesn't have it don't worry - you can buy them second hand (£100 or so and up for each item) aand retro fit.
If you 325 comes with 14" BBS then there's something not quite right with it.
They make an ideal snow tire option but they should be 15" BBS. the centre caps are easily nicked and cost £28 a corner (good bargaining point). If there are 4 different crap makes of tyre on the car then you know the rest of the car hasn't been looked after either. 4 F1 GSD's on the other hand.....
If the headlight wash wipe works I'd be bloody amazed (they never do) and the headlight dip wont either. If the owner says he has had them fixed then you know that car has had a very considerate owner. They aren't really needed and a PITA (fiddly not expensive) to fix.
If you happen to come across a car that a firm called Griffin has worked on - buy it. Very, very rare and as good as an alpina. Talking of which - if you find a real alpina complete with Sytners paperwork and all and I mean all numbers match and the car is a good un - buy it. Same goes for Hartge (Bird's did all the work on them for the most part). Be very wary of Alpina replica alloys. All because an e30 wears them doesn't mean it is one!
You can still ring BMW main dealers and get the history on these cars. (I did on my 325).
Price wise - an se spec 325 saloon starts from £1,200 ish all the way up to about £6,000 for mint motorsports with all the trimmings.
Tourings are not as popular (and never came in motorsport spec) although they can be very well specced. I think they look really good (especially lowered) but that's my penchant!
Cabs are a different market altogether. I also haven't discussed the difference between pre-and post-facelift 325i's. (High comp engines in pre-facelift's etc etc).
I've not discussed M3's as that's a seperate topic I feel.
All I will say is that these cars need constant tlc and preventative maintenance and any car you buy will need work even if it's to turn it into your desired spec. I haven't mentioned the 318iS as you said 6 cylinder. don't confuse a 318 with a 318iS. There's a big difference between the two.
I also haven't mentioned any cars that have had an engine swap. As a saturday car something with an M30 or M50/52 engine could be a very worthy addition. Good luck fella.
I have two currently and am not impartial. I absolutely love them so this will probably be a bit biased in as much as there are plenty of fun rwd cars out there to buy of this sort of age (corolla with the ae86 engine springs to mind off the top of my head) but I think e30's are the next MkI/II escort.
But assuming we get past that and you still want an E30 here goes.
Buy on condition not price. Let me repeat that. Buy on condition.
Mechanically they are straightforward and parts are plentiful from BMW and various other sources.
They all rust. But pay particular attention if it's a saloon.
It's the body and trim that is key to a good e30.
I have two tourings (a 320 and a 325i - check my profile). Tourings and cabriolets seem not to rust as much as saloons.
Rear arches. Any rust showing is bad news. they rust from the inside out.
front scuttle (under windscreen).
rear number plate (behind it).
Under the side skirts. (horror stories can be found lurking here)
front inner wings
inside the sunroof (open sunroof and use torch to try and look into the recess.
inner wings - crouch beside car with front door open. are the carpets wet in the foorwell? Pull carpet back if possible - hope you don't find anything.
Check under the battery (in the boot for saloons).
Pull all the carpet up eveywhere (within reason and check underneath.
They rust whilst you watch them.....!
If you have access to a mechanic and welder chap - all the better. If you can do it yourself - perfect.
These cars need constant tlc and prefer regular use to once a month.
In terms of engine and spec.
Don't let anyone kid you into thinking that a 320 is as good as a 325. In every way the 325 is better apart from the fact that the 320 is a little bit smoother. quicker, more economical, much more interesting drive, quicker, quicker, er, quicker......!
You might see a big price difference between regular 325's and motorsport 325's (people make a big deal of mentioning it says motorsport in the log book). Although they do tend to be much, much better specced they are exactly the same engine.
For driving involvement I'd ideally try to find one with an LSD already fitted BUT plenty come up for sale (£150-350 max depending on condition) and retro fitting is as straight forward as removal of the old open unit.
Then it comes down to the interior. There are various cloth specs and leather spec seats ranging from 'comfort' cloth (you have to grip the steering wheel to stop falling out of the car) right up to ultra rare recaro high-backs in better specced M3's.
I have a sport leather interior and it's a very nice place to be (considering it's 21 yrs old!).
Cruise control, air con, driving/trip computer (not to be confused with the OBC above the rear-view mirror) are all nice to have but if your particular rust-free specimen doesn't have it don't worry - you can buy them second hand (£100 or so and up for each item) aand retro fit.
If you 325 comes with 14" BBS then there's something not quite right with it.
They make an ideal snow tire option but they should be 15" BBS. the centre caps are easily nicked and cost £28 a corner (good bargaining point). If there are 4 different crap makes of tyre on the car then you know the rest of the car hasn't been looked after either. 4 F1 GSD's on the other hand.....
If the headlight wash wipe works I'd be bloody amazed (they never do) and the headlight dip wont either. If the owner says he has had them fixed then you know that car has had a very considerate owner. They aren't really needed and a PITA (fiddly not expensive) to fix.
If you happen to come across a car that a firm called Griffin has worked on - buy it. Very, very rare and as good as an alpina. Talking of which - if you find a real alpina complete with Sytners paperwork and all and I mean all numbers match and the car is a good un - buy it. Same goes for Hartge (Bird's did all the work on them for the most part). Be very wary of Alpina replica alloys. All because an e30 wears them doesn't mean it is one!
You can still ring BMW main dealers and get the history on these cars. (I did on my 325).
Price wise - an se spec 325 saloon starts from £1,200 ish all the way up to about £6,000 for mint motorsports with all the trimmings.
Tourings are not as popular (and never came in motorsport spec) although they can be very well specced. I think they look really good (especially lowered) but that's my penchant!
Cabs are a different market altogether. I also haven't discussed the difference between pre-and post-facelift 325i's. (High comp engines in pre-facelift's etc etc).
I've not discussed M3's as that's a seperate topic I feel.
All I will say is that these cars need constant tlc and preventative maintenance and any car you buy will need work even if it's to turn it into your desired spec. I haven't mentioned the 318iS as you said 6 cylinder. don't confuse a 318 with a 318iS. There's a big difference between the two.
I also haven't mentioned any cars that have had an engine swap. As a saturday car something with an M30 or M50/52 engine could be a very worthy addition. Good luck fella.
Edited by Oi_Oi_Savaloy on Sunday 7th March 21:48
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
If you happen to come across a car that a firm called Griffin has worked on - buy it. Very, very rare and as good as an alpina.
Didn't realize they were that highly regarded. Back in about 1990 my mate bought his quick rack for his 325i Sport from there. He got taken for a blast in their Touring demo - sounded really niceMike
Yep - about as rare as they come. Griffin unfortunately went bust recently too.
One was found recently (gun metal grey) with all the griffins bits and complete with an autocar article comparing it an equivalent alpina and it did very well. David Vivian wrote it I think if memory serves.
Yep - about as rare as they come. Griffin unfortunately went bust recently too.
One was found recently (gun metal grey) with all the griffins bits and complete with an autocar article comparing it an equivalent alpina and it did very well. David Vivian wrote it I think if memory serves.
Savaloy,
You are my saviour! Couldn't have asked for a more exstensive reply than that!
My budget will be roughly around the 2.5k mark, depending on how much I sell my current car for, if I come across a car I feel is worth the extra outlay, I might stretch to it.
Maintanice hopefully wont be too much of an issue as I have mechanic as a cousin who lets me use his garage and tools whenever the mood takes me, saving me a bundle! (He also knows how to weld thank god)
I think I will go for the 325, a saloon, I do like the touring but prefer the 2door, its about time I got a car with some decent pony, am I right in thinking its 170bhp?
Not that it will be too much of an issue as like I said it will be a weekend car, but what can I expect mpg wise, and finally do you know how much of a hike in insurance I could expect from a 2.0 focus (before I spend hours on all the comparison sites)!
Thanx
You are my saviour! Couldn't have asked for a more exstensive reply than that!
My budget will be roughly around the 2.5k mark, depending on how much I sell my current car for, if I come across a car I feel is worth the extra outlay, I might stretch to it.
Maintanice hopefully wont be too much of an issue as I have mechanic as a cousin who lets me use his garage and tools whenever the mood takes me, saving me a bundle! (He also knows how to weld thank god)
I think I will go for the 325, a saloon, I do like the touring but prefer the 2door, its about time I got a car with some decent pony, am I right in thinking its 170bhp?
Not that it will be too much of an issue as like I said it will be a weekend car, but what can I expect mpg wise, and finally do you know how much of a hike in insurance I could expect from a 2.0 focus (before I spend hours on all the comparison sites)!
Thanx
Again, check for rust everywhere, these things will rust and needs to be checked thoroughly !!
Consumption on my 325i running with a BTB manifold and full system is 22mpg, I did a 200 mile round trip in mine today, £50 of V power and it's still on half a tank - mainly mway driving with the odd tickle
As a weekend toy they are great, I've had mine 16yrs and it's my SAS car when the weather is good, it still puts a smile on my face now.
There's plenty out there but they do tend to suffer in many ways so be extra careful when buying one.
171bhp rear wheel drive doesn't sound much and probably most Yaris and Polo's could wipe the floor with you but the growl is sexy !!
Good luck in your quest............
Consumption on my 325i running with a BTB manifold and full system is 22mpg, I did a 200 mile round trip in mine today, £50 of V power and it's still on half a tank - mainly mway driving with the odd tickle
As a weekend toy they are great, I've had mine 16yrs and it's my SAS car when the weather is good, it still puts a smile on my face now.
There's plenty out there but they do tend to suffer in many ways so be extra careful when buying one.
171bhp rear wheel drive doesn't sound much and probably most Yaris and Polo's could wipe the floor with you but the growl is sexy !!
Good luck in your quest............
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
Mike
Yep - about as rare as they come. Griffin unfortunately went bust recently too.
One was found recently (gun metal grey) with all the griffins bits and complete with an autocar article comparing it an equivalent alpina and it did very well. David Vivian wrote it I think if memory serves.
Ah, what issue of Autocar was it do you know? I ask as I will have it in the loft/garage but can't remember reading it. I'd like to see the car again and see if it's the one he went out in.Yep - about as rare as they come. Griffin unfortunately went bust recently too.
One was found recently (gun metal grey) with all the griffins bits and complete with an autocar article comparing it an equivalent alpina and it did very well. David Vivian wrote it I think if memory serves.
How sought after are the Michael Krankenberg conversions ( if at all? ). I don't really keep up with the E30 scene
http://www.mk-motorsport.de/html_en/e30_3er.htm
Edited by Shropshiremike on Monday 8th March 11:30
Bodie390 said:
Again, check for rust everywhere, these things will rust and needs to be checked thoroughly !!
Consumption on my 325i running with a BTB manifold and full system is 22mpg, I did a 200 mile round trip in mine today, £50 of V power and it's still on half a tank - mainly mway driving with the odd tickle
As a weekend toy they are great, I've had mine 16yrs and it's my SAS car when the weather is good, it still puts a smile on my face now.
There's plenty out there but they do tend to suffer in many ways so be extra careful when buying one.
171bhp rear wheel drive doesn't sound much and probably most Yaris and Polo's could wipe the floor with you but the growl is sexy !!
Good luck in your quest............
Ooooh, BTB! Beautiful. The one thing I'd like to buy for mine. Makes a proper difference by all accounts.Consumption on my 325i running with a BTB manifold and full system is 22mpg, I did a 200 mile round trip in mine today, £50 of V power and it's still on half a tank - mainly mway driving with the odd tickle
As a weekend toy they are great, I've had mine 16yrs and it's my SAS car when the weather is good, it still puts a smile on my face now.
There's plenty out there but they do tend to suffer in many ways so be extra careful when buying one.
171bhp rear wheel drive doesn't sound much and probably most Yaris and Polo's could wipe the floor with you but the growl is sexy !!
Good luck in your quest............
And as Bodie says - technically it's not as quick some modern stuff but it's the way the thing goes that maekes the difference. The noise, the feel, the sheer everything. I use mine as a daily drive and I wouldn't change it for the world, except when the f
ker fails to start......or the head goes....or the stupid wash wipe packs up.....or I could go on. My wife truly, truly despises it too which is even better - she'll never want to drive it.....Shropshire Mike - I've never come across an MK Motorsport e30 in the flesh. In fact I've never seen one for sale or talked about either. Rare then!
Mpg-wise I'm getting 24(ish) round town and 30mpg on long runs. You could get more if you don't thrash them but I defy you not to do so at least once or twice per tank.
A brimmed tank gets me 348 miles. That's a mixture of B roads and A roads around Pembrokeshire.
If I buy one - give the car a proper service, get the tappets done, have the injectors cleaned (try injectortune in Somerset - he's got a deal on at the mo and have heard excellent service from him). Just get her back to as close to 171 original Bhp first before haring offer and modding her. That's come soon enough.
Suspension-wise depends on budget but H&K, Eibach et all all come recommended.
Brakes - bigger brakes are restricted by 15" BBS so you might need to go to 16" or 17". I haven't - I like mine looking stock.
Fire away if you need anything else.
I've got a mint 320 touring just begging for an engine transplant I'd give you (for a small fee!). It's been written once (someone dented the drivers door!). Apart from some tailgate rust (they all do that sir) it's absolutely first class. It's not for sale but if you're looking for ideas just let me know or anyone on here in fact.
Edited by Oi_Oi_Savaloy on Monday 8th March 13:28
Also - £2,500 should be sufficient to get you something. I'd always try and hold back some for the inevitable work/modifications/add-ons you'll no doubt want to do.
But just remember - it's the body that's crucial to the car - the mechanicals are straightforward and plentiful. Rust is the major factor when buying these turds.
I hope others would back me up on this.
But just remember - it's the body that's crucial to the car - the mechanicals are straightforward and plentiful. Rust is the major factor when buying these turds.
I hope others would back me up on this.
Rust is the killer, here's mine in the bodyshop -
I was rather lucky with the above, but these are the main area's you need to be looking at inc the rear wheel arches, boot floor, front valance and the roof - open the roof and look into each corner at the rear !!
Tread carefully is all I will say.
I was rather lucky with the above, but these are the main area's you need to be looking at inc the rear wheel arches, boot floor, front valance and the roof - open the roof and look into each corner at the rear !!
Tread carefully is all I will say.
Griffin here -
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1502006.htm
There's a few models to choose from, stay away form the 320 - 318 power with 325 mpg !!
The tech 2 sport is desirable but a nicely specced up 325i SE is just as good , make sure you go for a manual box
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1502006.htm
There's a few models to choose from, stay away form the 320 - 318 power with 325 mpg !!
The tech 2 sport is desirable but a nicely specced up 325i SE is just as good , make sure you go for a manual box
Edited by Bodie390 on Monday 8th March 13:40
Edited by Bodie390 on Monday 8th March 15:00
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
Shropshire Mike - I've never come across an MK Motorsport e30 in the flesh. In fact I've never seen one for sale or talked about either. Rare then!
Yes, I think they were quite rare. MK used to be a BMW approved tuner so it was quite good quality stuff. They were supposed to be nearly as good as Alpina but I'll be honest I've only ever seen one ( which did go very well ). Certainly better than an iteration 1 325 SportThis is all great stuff, alot of your comments are really opening my eyes as what ownership will be like.
I was expecting there to be issues with rust, just have to make sure I give a potential buy a really good going over. Certainly hasn't put me off though.
I agree modern 'warm hatchs' would give a 325 a run for its money, but that doesnt matter to me, half the fun in a car is the sound, the feel and dynamics, im yet to find a newish car I really want to own, they just don't do it for me! Had a go in my dads brand new XF diesel S last week, and although stupid quick, it just felt boring!
Old school bavarian metal is the dream!
I was expecting there to be issues with rust, just have to make sure I give a potential buy a really good going over. Certainly hasn't put me off though.
I agree modern 'warm hatchs' would give a 325 a run for its money, but that doesnt matter to me, half the fun in a car is the sound, the feel and dynamics, im yet to find a newish car I really want to own, they just don't do it for me! Had a go in my dads brand new XF diesel S last week, and although stupid quick, it just felt boring!
Old school bavarian metal is the dream!
I had a 320i and enjoyed it. Persoanlly, if I had one again I would go for a standard looking 320 or 325- not with the bodykit (factory supplied or not).
I would then make sure the inside was as high spec as possible- as someone else said, the wiring id there, you just need to plug the parts in.
I'd then have a quick enough, comfortable car which, with the narrow width (compared to modern cars) would be great for town work
(edited to add)
Looking at the stats, a modern Fiesta is 5cm shorter, 8cm WIDER and 10cm taller. In town, the width is the killer (parking spaces, etc)
I would then make sure the inside was as high spec as possible- as someone else said, the wiring id there, you just need to plug the parts in.
I'd then have a quick enough, comfortable car which, with the narrow width (compared to modern cars) would be great for town work
(edited to add)
Looking at the stats, a modern Fiesta is 5cm shorter, 8cm WIDER and 10cm taller. In town, the width is the killer (parking spaces, etc)
Edited by williamp on Monday 8th March 21:28
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