Vanos beginning to rattle - what are my options?

[tomwoodis]

Hi all,

unfortunately, i seem to be experiencing the onset of vanos noise issues i think. Symptoms/ details are as follows:

- Z4 3.0 04 plate
- rattling noise (there at idle but low in volume)
- Louder rattling noise between 1900 rpm - 2200 rpm
- noise virtually disappears as far as I can tell above 2200-rpm

No noticeable power loss or hesitation, just the rather annoying noise so a few questions if you don't mind:

1) Is this likely to be doing any significant damage, or can this be left alone?

2) Is this likely to get worse?

3) What are my realistic options in terms of getting this sorted? - I have read some of the Besian systems type remedies for this but seems very involved and if I was to go this route, I'd probably feel happier going to an Indy and getting them to do it (assuming there are some around in the South East that would be happy to look into this as a solution instead of simply throwing parts at the problem - new Vanos, Timing chain tensioners etc)

4) If there are some viable solutions to this, what's this likely to cost to put right?

5) Could this be some other problem entirely, if so what are the likely suspects?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just need an idea where I stand with this and whether I need to start thinking of re-mortgaging the house etc!!!

Cheers,

Tom

[TonyRPH]

I think you'll find all the help you need here.

http://www.mrvanos.com/index.htm

[Neil.D]

VANOS noise doesnt mean damage or drop in performance. Its just annoying.

Thewebsite as above explains all.

Edit - this one has more detail

http://www.drvanos.com/

Edited by Neil.D on Wednesday 21st April 01:45

[Mr Whippy]

The DISA flap thing can rattle too.

My top-end sounded like it was rattling lots with the bonnet up, and even audible in the cabin around those same rpm's actually!

Unplugged the DISA 12v feed and the engine rattling fell silent. Literally 2/3rds of what sounded like valvetrainy rattling disappeared!

I'd try that first.

Dave

[Mr Whippy]

TonyRPH said:

I think you'll find all the help you need here.

http://www.mrvanos.com/index.htm

They look good.

No mention of price though. Semi-tempted to get mine done, would prefer to get someone else to do it though to be honest since I'll hopefully never have to go in there again while I own the car if it's done right

Dave

[tomwoodis]

Thanks everyone for the responses, some helpful stuff in here.

Mr Whippy said:

The DISA flap thing can rattle too.

My top-end sounded like it was rattling lots with the bonnet up, and even audible in the cabin around those same rpm's actually!

Unplugged the DISA 12v feed and the engine rattling fell silent. Literally 2/3rds of what sounded like valvetrainy rattling disappeared!

I'd try that first.

Dave

Sounds like a worthwhile try, any tips on where i might locate the plug?

Also, what are your options for changing it if it does turn out to be the DISA thingy?

Cheers

Tom

[phelix]

Have you checked the water pump? Noisy bearings could be the problem - it was on my M52TU-engined E46.

[tomwoodis]

phelix said:

Have you checked the water pump? Noisy bearings could be the problem - it was on my M52TU-engined E46.

I haven't but then it really does sound like the noise is coming from right smack in the middle of the engine really and just below the engine cover, presumably the water pump is located some way further down the bottom of the block?

[john_p]

phelix said:

Have you checked the water pump? Noisy bearings could be the problem - it was on my M52TU-engined E46.

Did you swap the pump? Noticed this on mine the other day when parked against a wall, Indy checked it 6 months ago and declared it fine, but I'm a bit paranoid

[TonyRPH]

Here's a couple of examples of noisy Vanos on Youtube (plenty to choose from)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEpNe171ac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VuW68BPB8c

[Mr Whippy]

tomwoodis said:

Thanks everyone for the responses, some helpful stuff in here.

Mr Whippy said:

The DISA flap thing can rattle too.

My top-end sounded like it was rattling lots with the bonnet up, and even audible in the cabin around those same rpm's actually!

Unplugged the DISA 12v feed and the engine rattling fell silent. Literally 2/3rds of what sounded like valvetrainy rattling disappeared!

I'd try that first.

Dave

Sounds like a worthwhile try, any tips on where i might locate the plug?

Also, what are your options for changing it if it does turn out to be the DISA thingy?

Cheers

Tom

The plug for the DISA is right on top of the engine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7M7P76AJB4

That is what it looks like off the car, they don't always rattle that badly. Mine didn't when doing that, but the door on the unit was loose enough that in operation it rattled. That one in the video must have made a racket in operation!


It fits to the intake manifold just behind the engine oil level dip stick.

There is a plug on top of it, just push the metal slide clip in with your finger and then lift the plug up off the unit. You can remove this at idle when the flap is operating to stay closed... on my car the noise went away a great deal!

Definately DO this check before you spend any more or time on anything else. It takes 1 minute to check.


If the DISA unit is faulty it's about £110 to replace if I remember correctly.

The door basically gets wobbly within the frame and rattles lots. A new one is super stiff and solid. Seems to be about 60,000miles/5yrs is enough to wear one so it's noisy.

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 22 April 10:08

[TonyRPH]

What is the purpose of the DISA ?

[Mr Whippy]

It offers some pulse tuning to the intake iirc, and also helps intake velocities at lower engine speeds.

Iirc, the main chamber with the 6 intake ports is split by the DISA flap, and then that main chamber is fed by two intakes each, which both join to the main throttle body intake through another chamber.

So at low speed it acts like two 3 port intakes with good intake velocity and some pulse tuning through that 1st chamber.
At high engine speeds it opens up for flow.


There is a nice diagram in a BMW pdf somewhere but I can't find em right now. I have them at home though so might post later


Dave

[tomwoodis]

you know what, looking at your message and that video I'd say that's exactly where the noise would be coming from so I will check that out later and report back, good advice thanks

Mr Whippy said:

tomwoodis said:

Thanks everyone for the responses, some helpful stuff in here.

Mr Whippy said:

The DISA flap thing can rattle too.

My top-end sounded like it was rattling lots with the bonnet up, and even audible in the cabin around those same rpm's actually!

Unplugged the DISA 12v feed and the engine rattling fell silent. Literally 2/3rds of what sounded like valvetrainy rattling disappeared!

I'd try that first.

Dave

Sounds like a worthwhile try, any tips on where i might locate the plug?

Also, what are your options for changing it if it does turn out to be the DISA thingy?

Cheers

Tom

The plug for the DISA is right on top of the engine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7M7P76AJB4

That is what it looks like off the car, they don't always rattle that badly. Mine didn't when doing that, but the door on the unit was loose enough that in operation it rattled. That one in the video must have made a racket in operation!


It fits to the intake manifold just behind the engine oil level dip stick.

There is a plug on top of it, just push the metal slide clip in with your finger and then lift the plug up off the unit. You can remove this at idle when the flap is operating to stay closed... on my car the noise went away a great deal!

Definately DO this check before you spend any more or time on anything else. It takes 1 minute to check.


If the DISA unit is faulty it's about £110 to replace if I remember correctly.

The door basically gets wobbly within the frame and rattles lots. A new one is super stiff and solid. Seems to be about 60,000miles/5yrs is enough to wear one so it's noisy.

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 22 April 10:08

[tomwoodis]

Well, congratulations go to Dave for correctly identifying the problem.

Unplugged the DISA after getting home whilst engine was running and the annoying rattle noise changed completely for the better.

So.... next question, how much for a new one?

I've seen the video online that shows how to fit it, doesn't look too bad so how much is the part?

[phelix]

john_p said:

phelix said:

Have you checked the water pump? Noisy bearings could be the problem - it was on my M52TU-engined E46.

Did you swap the pump? Noticed this on mine the other day when parked against a wall, Indy checked it 6 months ago and declared it fine, but I'm a bit paranoid

Yes, pump bearings were knackered - new pump and all was quiet again.

[Mr Whippy]

tomwoodis said:

Well, congratulations go to Dave for correctly identifying the problem.

Unplugged the DISA after getting home whilst engine was running and the annoying rattle noise changed completely for the better.

So.... next question, how much for a new one?

I've seen the video online that shows how to fit it, doesn't look too bad so how much is the part?

I think mine was £115 or £120.

Not cheap, but imo if it's rattling lots then it's on it's way out, and I replaced mine. The rattle just annoyed me

It's about a 10-15min job to swap.

Main problem is getting to the two star head bolts. One is easy to access, the other means you need to remove the pipe from airbox > throttle body unless you have a really good tool to get in there.

So two bolts basically, unplug wire, slides right out, slide new one in, plug in, bolts back, done

Dave

[tomwoodis]

Mr Whippy said:

tomwoodis said:

Well, congratulations go to Dave for correctly identifying the problem.

Unplugged the DISA after getting home whilst engine was running and the annoying rattle noise changed completely for the better.

So.... next question, how much for a new one?

I've seen the video online that shows how to fit it, doesn't look too bad so how much is the part?

I think mine was £115 or £120.

Not cheap, but imo if it's rattling lots then it's on it's way out, and I replaced mine. The rattle just annoyed me

It's about a 10-15 min job to swap.

Main problem is getting to the two star head bolts. One is easy to access, the other means you need to remove the pipe from airbox > throttle body unless you have a really good tool to get in there.

So two bolts basically, unplug wire, slides right out, slide new one in, plug in, bolts back, done

Dave

Wicked, thanks Dave, will have to go into BMW and order the part in that case.

do you have to put any kind of sealant around the edge of the bit that goes into the manifold (if you see what I mean)

Cheers

Tom