E39 to E60 wise move?
Discussion
Hi all,
Has anybody moved from an E39 to an E60? Putting aside views on aesthetics, was it a good move for the extra money involved?
I am starting to get a little tired of constantly tinkering with my E39 fixing niggling little problems (pixels, remote opening, PDC sensors, air springs, 5 series shimmy, hedgehog, washer pump, the list goes on..) when I should really be constantly tinkering with my TVR fixing niggling little problems...
Don't get me wrong, my E39 has been a fantastic car - I have had it for just over a year and done over 36K in comfort and quiet. It's been a great load lugger (it's a touring), has carried me up to Scotland and back a couple of times in teutonic grace, and even returns an average fuel consumption of over 30mpg - not bad for a 3 litre auto.
I don't even begrudge the £1300 to have the auto box reconditioned, or the voracious apetite for rear tyres it seems to have... But I do feel that I am now ready to move on to something that doesn't seem to constantly need stuff doing. Maybe I am at the stage where I have done everything - the car is starting to feel like Trigger's brush, but every time I say that, some other little 'issue' pops up.
I'd probably be looking at an early E60 - 2004/5 due to available funds - I could take a little finance for the right car, but I'd rather not. I'd like similar fuel consumption, and probably prefer petrol to diesel purely for the sound of the engine.
So with that in mind does anybody care to relate E60 ownership experiences? Or better still offer sage advice about the perfect solution to my problem?
Has anybody moved from an E39 to an E60? Putting aside views on aesthetics, was it a good move for the extra money involved?
I am starting to get a little tired of constantly tinkering with my E39 fixing niggling little problems (pixels, remote opening, PDC sensors, air springs, 5 series shimmy, hedgehog, washer pump, the list goes on..) when I should really be constantly tinkering with my TVR fixing niggling little problems...
Don't get me wrong, my E39 has been a fantastic car - I have had it for just over a year and done over 36K in comfort and quiet. It's been a great load lugger (it's a touring), has carried me up to Scotland and back a couple of times in teutonic grace, and even returns an average fuel consumption of over 30mpg - not bad for a 3 litre auto.
I don't even begrudge the £1300 to have the auto box reconditioned, or the voracious apetite for rear tyres it seems to have... But I do feel that I am now ready to move on to something that doesn't seem to constantly need stuff doing. Maybe I am at the stage where I have done everything - the car is starting to feel like Trigger's brush, but every time I say that, some other little 'issue' pops up.
I'd probably be looking at an early E60 - 2004/5 due to available funds - I could take a little finance for the right car, but I'd rather not. I'd like similar fuel consumption, and probably prefer petrol to diesel purely for the sound of the engine.
So with that in mind does anybody care to relate E60 ownership experiences? Or better still offer sage advice about the perfect solution to my problem?
Hi Skoff
I read your post there and i'll be honest with my absolute first impression -
The E60 has much more electronic modules, circuitry, sensors, other gubbins which'll probably make the E39 'tinkering' seem like fun.
E60's are still relatively 'new' so I agree and see your point in that theoretically, any example you buy shouldn't have these types of niggly little things. However, the oldest ones are now 6 years old, and it won't be long before there's more instances of X module or Y sensor giving up and needing to be replaced. I've so far, heard of just one 'horror' story with an E60 on the forums. Member posted up his screen, hifi, GPS, ac controls all were inoperable. Turns out the iDrive controller module had gone kaput! £1900 from BMW!! ouch! he posted back a few weeks later to say he picked up a second hand one for £1100 !
Now it may turn out to be relatively isolated, and indeed time will tell if as the E60 (and other BMW's and indeed other Manufacturers cars) ages do more and more of these electronic systems start to go very expensively wrong. So far with the E39, the usual failure bits like you mention are relatively affordable - my own FSR and ABS sensor needing replacing right now too!
I'm personally sticking with my E39 Touring, I don't want to sell it at all, I want to have it running in 10+ years time as well and hopefully I'll have other daily cars by then and can have it as bit of a 'modern classic' !
Be interesting to see what others think!
Cheers, Dennis!
I read your post there and i'll be honest with my absolute first impression -
The E60 has much more electronic modules, circuitry, sensors, other gubbins which'll probably make the E39 'tinkering' seem like fun.
E60's are still relatively 'new' so I agree and see your point in that theoretically, any example you buy shouldn't have these types of niggly little things. However, the oldest ones are now 6 years old, and it won't be long before there's more instances of X module or Y sensor giving up and needing to be replaced. I've so far, heard of just one 'horror' story with an E60 on the forums. Member posted up his screen, hifi, GPS, ac controls all were inoperable. Turns out the iDrive controller module had gone kaput! £1900 from BMW!! ouch! he posted back a few weeks later to say he picked up a second hand one for £1100 !
Now it may turn out to be relatively isolated, and indeed time will tell if as the E60 (and other BMW's and indeed other Manufacturers cars) ages do more and more of these electronic systems start to go very expensively wrong. So far with the E39, the usual failure bits like you mention are relatively affordable - my own FSR and ABS sensor needing replacing right now too!
I'm personally sticking with my E39 Touring, I don't want to sell it at all, I want to have it running in 10+ years time as well and hopefully I'll have other daily cars by then and can have it as bit of a 'modern classic' !
Be interesting to see what others think!
Cheers, Dennis!
My E39 540i Touring (Sept 2000 car) was getting on a bit (162k miles) and while nothing needed replacing, I felt it was time for a change. Changing for a newer 540i Touring would have been pointless. I bought an Oct 2004 545i Touring in February and it's been more economical, quicker and very nice, but not really any better to live with.
I like the E60's exterior looks but the only way the interior is an improvement over the E39 is the iDrive controller and the updated sat nav. To drive it's not vastly different, and run-flat tyres hurt the ride a bit.
However, I no longer have what looks like an 'old' car in the car park at work, and plenty of people on the motorway seem to think I might be an unmarked police car, so there are some benefits
Overall, it feels a bit more modern than the E39 but isn't much of a step forward. Having a newer car means my outgoings on replacing bushes, dampers, wheel bearings etc are less, but depreciation will be greater (despite paying a very good price for the 545).
Not so much a wise move as a natural move when you feel you need to replace your car, I would suggest.
I like the E60's exterior looks but the only way the interior is an improvement over the E39 is the iDrive controller and the updated sat nav. To drive it's not vastly different, and run-flat tyres hurt the ride a bit.
However, I no longer have what looks like an 'old' car in the car park at work, and plenty of people on the motorway seem to think I might be an unmarked police car, so there are some benefits
Overall, it feels a bit more modern than the E39 but isn't much of a step forward. Having a newer car means my outgoings on replacing bushes, dampers, wheel bearings etc are less, but depreciation will be greater (despite paying a very good price for the 545).
Not so much a wise move as a natural move when you feel you need to replace your car, I would suggest.
Thanks for the responses...
Dennis, that's a very sensible view as ever, the more complex they make them the more expensive they are when they go wrong, and I have noticed that the newer the car the less it seems the manufaturer wants you to DIY... The TVR is usually pretty easy to do stuff on compared to the E39, I bet it's the same step from the E39 to the E60. It's a good point well made, and that horror story you tell is frightening, even if it is an isolated incident. the thing is who knows what an E60 will be like when age and miles take their toll???
SJ - your point on the depreciation is a really good one... A point I made myself when deciding to do fix the gearbox or scrap the car - the £1300 I spent would be less than depreciation on a newer rep-car over 30K miles, and the newer car wouldn't do such a good job as the E39. I think I was getting caught up in the shiny-shiny. I do think the E60 touring is a spectacularly good looking car, much nicer that the (already nice) E39. But I am not bothered about image in the car park at work - I work at a charity and their views on my cars start at 'why would you want such an expensive posh car' through to 'PLANET-KILLER!' an E60 isn't going to change that
Having said all that I do feel a bit bored with the E39, but I think I'd feel the same about any daily drive - 30K miles a year is going to do that. So, today I have come to work in the TVR, which has made me feel MUCH better.
I am almost (almost...) inspired to tackle my two outstanding problems on my E39 (PCD and intermittent radio key)... oh no wait, it's 3 problems - I have the 'shimmy' too, oh and then there's the Badger damage
Dennis, that's a very sensible view as ever, the more complex they make them the more expensive they are when they go wrong, and I have noticed that the newer the car the less it seems the manufaturer wants you to DIY... The TVR is usually pretty easy to do stuff on compared to the E39, I bet it's the same step from the E39 to the E60. It's a good point well made, and that horror story you tell is frightening, even if it is an isolated incident. the thing is who knows what an E60 will be like when age and miles take their toll???
SJ - your point on the depreciation is a really good one... A point I made myself when deciding to do fix the gearbox or scrap the car - the £1300 I spent would be less than depreciation on a newer rep-car over 30K miles, and the newer car wouldn't do such a good job as the E39. I think I was getting caught up in the shiny-shiny. I do think the E60 touring is a spectacularly good looking car, much nicer that the (already nice) E39. But I am not bothered about image in the car park at work - I work at a charity and their views on my cars start at 'why would you want such an expensive posh car' through to 'PLANET-KILLER!' an E60 isn't going to change that
Having said all that I do feel a bit bored with the E39, but I think I'd feel the same about any daily drive - 30K miles a year is going to do that. So, today I have come to work in the TVR, which has made me feel MUCH better.
I am almost (almost...) inspired to tackle my two outstanding problems on my E39 (PCD and intermittent radio key)... oh no wait, it's 3 problems - I have the 'shimmy' too, oh and then there's the Badger damage
Hi Skoff.
I have a 2005 E60 530d. I think it's a great car, and a joy to drive. (When I get it back from vandal damage repair!)
My parents both have the E39 (520i) and I see a big difference when I drive their cars. The E60 feels more solid, and the idrive/nav is great.
I can't comment on the petrol, but the diesel engine is great. Average 31.5 mpg mixed journeys. 37+ motorway driving. Tons of torque.
I am also toying with a remap that could give me up to 22% fuel savings, with about 12% power increase, so a nice addition!
I have a 2005 E60 530d. I think it's a great car, and a joy to drive. (When I get it back from vandal damage repair!)
My parents both have the E39 (520i) and I see a big difference when I drive their cars. The E60 feels more solid, and the idrive/nav is great.
I can't comment on the petrol, but the diesel engine is great. Average 31.5 mpg mixed journeys. 37+ motorway driving. Tons of torque.
I am also toying with a remap that could give me up to 22% fuel savings, with about 12% power increase, so a nice addition!
Hi Skoff et al,
You say that you are a bit 'bored' of the E39. I can understand that, however, is your E39 all standard? if so, consider things like a suspension change, perhaps to some Eibach or H&R lowering springs or the whole kit with matched shock absorbers too. A mild Brake upgrade in the shape of Goodridge braided hoses £46 off ebay are a worthwhile affordable (no idea on the labour! mine are sitting ready to be fitted!) upgrade. Things like a interior valet and super clean, perhaps an exterior detail would also help freshen it up. Then come things like headlamp and the Celis lighting upgrades and things like a mild to mid level audio install upgrade. I think with the suspension and mild brakes update as a first stop, the 'change' in drivability may just persuade and remind you why the E39 chassis was voted the best executive car in the world, i believe (from memory) 3 times although different years! - that's an accolade I believe the E60 didn't acheive (may be wrong!)
The E60's are still great cars no doubt, the Sport version doing wonders for it's appearance for instance, best mate bought a very very low mile 55 plate 530d M Sport in 2007 with just 18K on the clock and I remember driving it for a little while and feeling just how hewn from rock it felt - possibly magnified as my car at the time had like 190,000 on it and much 'looser' !
Currently, the big V8 E60's are going relatively cheaply, so present a good bargain with the amount of extra's they have, so possibly look at those.
As more and more E60's start to come out of warranty, we'll soon be seeing threads of where things have gone wrong, and the associated pricing. One thing is looking 'increasingly' its the case and that is the E46, E39 (mainly from that era) are the last DIY maintainable BMW's. All the 2005-2007+ BMW's are all 'mainly' return to dealer or the top end of specialists for many more items, so as ever, it all really comes down to the thickness of your wallet!
Cheers, Dennis!
You say that you are a bit 'bored' of the E39. I can understand that, however, is your E39 all standard? if so, consider things like a suspension change, perhaps to some Eibach or H&R lowering springs or the whole kit with matched shock absorbers too. A mild Brake upgrade in the shape of Goodridge braided hoses £46 off ebay are a worthwhile affordable (no idea on the labour! mine are sitting ready to be fitted!) upgrade. Things like a interior valet and super clean, perhaps an exterior detail would also help freshen it up. Then come things like headlamp and the Celis lighting upgrades and things like a mild to mid level audio install upgrade. I think with the suspension and mild brakes update as a first stop, the 'change' in drivability may just persuade and remind you why the E39 chassis was voted the best executive car in the world, i believe (from memory) 3 times although different years! - that's an accolade I believe the E60 didn't acheive (may be wrong!)
The E60's are still great cars no doubt, the Sport version doing wonders for it's appearance for instance, best mate bought a very very low mile 55 plate 530d M Sport in 2007 with just 18K on the clock and I remember driving it for a little while and feeling just how hewn from rock it felt - possibly magnified as my car at the time had like 190,000 on it and much 'looser' !
Currently, the big V8 E60's are going relatively cheaply, so present a good bargain with the amount of extra's they have, so possibly look at those.
As more and more E60's start to come out of warranty, we'll soon be seeing threads of where things have gone wrong, and the associated pricing. One thing is looking 'increasingly' its the case and that is the E46, E39 (mainly from that era) are the last DIY maintainable BMW's. All the 2005-2007+ BMW's are all 'mainly' return to dealer or the top end of specialists for many more items, so as ever, it all really comes down to the thickness of your wallet!
Cheers, Dennis!
I hadn't really thought about upgrades... My car very rarely sees a corner in anger. 90% of it's life is spent on the motorway, and the other 10% of the time it is the family bus/van. I suspect performance upgrades would be a bit of a waste, but the costs don't sound OTT.
As regards the cleaning & detailing, my Christmas present from the wife was a machine polisher, and I have already given the car the once over, it does look good, though it was hard work. My car is usually really clean inside and out - I spend too much time in it to be able to put up with it being a pig sty.
Audio upgrades are an interesting thought, I believe there's a new double DIN stereo coming out soon that fits, though I think I'd rather wait until a few people have lived with them for a bit. I got a DICE Silverline to hook up my iPod and it's the most unreliable pice of junk I have ever spent £100 on. Now I listen to Radio 4 all the time rather than wrestle with the iPod...
I think I need to get the problems sorted on the car, then I am sure I will fall in love with it again, when it's working 100% it is sublime, but sadly that doesn't happen very often. To me it's the best motorway cruiser I have ever been in and it sounds like I am not going to get that much more out of an E60/61, at least not considering the extra £6-10k I would probably need to invest in the change. I reckon I will give it another year and see what happens to the price of the E60s, when the change will feel even more 'natural'. The wife is keen for me to go and look at a Merc C32 Estate I spotted for sale near by, but I can't help but think it would be much worse than the 5 for annoying faults and undoubtably cost...
As regards the cleaning & detailing, my Christmas present from the wife was a machine polisher, and I have already given the car the once over, it does look good, though it was hard work. My car is usually really clean inside and out - I spend too much time in it to be able to put up with it being a pig sty.
Audio upgrades are an interesting thought, I believe there's a new double DIN stereo coming out soon that fits, though I think I'd rather wait until a few people have lived with them for a bit. I got a DICE Silverline to hook up my iPod and it's the most unreliable pice of junk I have ever spent £100 on. Now I listen to Radio 4 all the time rather than wrestle with the iPod...
I think I need to get the problems sorted on the car, then I am sure I will fall in love with it again, when it's working 100% it is sublime, but sadly that doesn't happen very often. To me it's the best motorway cruiser I have ever been in and it sounds like I am not going to get that much more out of an E60/61, at least not considering the extra £6-10k I would probably need to invest in the change. I reckon I will give it another year and see what happens to the price of the E60s, when the change will feel even more 'natural'. The wife is keen for me to go and look at a Merc C32 Estate I spotted for sale near by, but I can't help but think it would be much worse than the 5 for annoying faults and undoubtably cost...
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff