Something is wierd with my sound system!!??
Discussion
I recently bought an '03 M3 cab. Its a Cat D, but it appears to have been fixed up very well. There are no signs of structural damage.
I was very unimpressed with the standard business sound system, so I upgraded to a sony head unit, kenwood 17cm front speakers and 13cm alpine rears. I've fabricated custom MDF mounting rings to make everything fit, but the system just doesn't sound right. Its like the punch that should be there just isn't.
When I fitted the new 3 way speakers I used the wires that originally went to the mids. (there are 2 wires, one going to mids and one to tweeters) I checked the polarity and they appear to be going to the right terminals.
My question therefore is......
I was wondering if there are infact cross overs/filters fitted to the BMW wiring harness that limits the frequencies going to each speaker that may be causing my speaker issue? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
I'm going to take everything out again and make sure the rear of the speakers are properly isolated from the front so that no negative signwaves are getting through to the front and dulling down the sound.
I was very unimpressed with the standard business sound system, so I upgraded to a sony head unit, kenwood 17cm front speakers and 13cm alpine rears. I've fabricated custom MDF mounting rings to make everything fit, but the system just doesn't sound right. Its like the punch that should be there just isn't.
When I fitted the new 3 way speakers I used the wires that originally went to the mids. (there are 2 wires, one going to mids and one to tweeters) I checked the polarity and they appear to be going to the right terminals.
My question therefore is......
I was wondering if there are infact cross overs/filters fitted to the BMW wiring harness that limits the frequencies going to each speaker that may be causing my speaker issue? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
I'm going to take everything out again and make sure the rear of the speakers are properly isolated from the front so that no negative signwaves are getting through to the front and dulling down the sound.
There are no filters/xovers in line in the wiring loom.
Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Edited by E30M3SE on Thursday 23 September 14:58
E30M3SE said:
There are no filters/xovers in line in the wiring loom.
Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Hi,Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Edited by E30M3SE on Thursday 23 September 14:58
Thanks for the info on the wireing loom. I've checked for an amp and the only thing in the rear leaft is the CD changer (which is now disconnected due to having MP3 head unit)
Yeh, Sony 4X50watts into 3 way Coaxial Kenwood/alpines.
What I was expecting was an improvement, or at worst an equal sound to that I had in my old e36 328 coupe which had factory speakers. I was using the Sony Head unit in there for a few months prior to buying the M3.
MPETT said:
E30M3SE said:
There are no filters/xovers in line in the wiring loom.
Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Hi,Sony 4x50 watt(?) MAX. output head unit into some 3way Kenwood (coaxial?) speakers wit Alpine 13cm (coaxial?) speakers in the back........... what exactly are you expecting?
ETA, are you sure there is not a BMW amplifier in the boot on the left hand side? IF there is your new speakers may be messing with the amps impedences. Something to check out.
Edited by E30M3SE on Thursday 23 September 14:58
Thanks for the info on the wireing loom. I've checked for an amp and the only thing in the rear leaft is the CD changer (which is now disconnected due to having MP3 head unit)
Yeh, Sony 4X50watts into 3 way Coaxial Kenwood/alpines.
What I was expecting was an improvement, or at worst an equal sound to that I had in my old e36 328 coupe which had factory speakers. I was using the Sony Head unit in there for a few months prior to buying the M3.
Something to remember with sound set ups is that high frequencies are more directional than low frequencies, so positioning tweeters at a low level does not produce a very good sound.
What Kenwood speakers are you using?
Alpines are:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Kenwoods are:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Sony head unit is:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Kenwoods are:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Sony head unit is:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
If it is a business sound system then there will be no external amplifier. You get that with HK or the "hi-fi" option.
As far as I remember the FL/FR channels go straight to each door and the tweeter is fed from a connection on the mid, it may even just be a simple capacitor crossover built into the tweeter.
Otherwise, are the mids secured to the doors properly? Are they perhaps coming into contact with the grilles when the door cards are back on? I seem to remember you need quite narrow mids for it to work even with a spacing ring.
How does each channel sound in isolation? Are you 100% sure the phases are all correct?
As far as I remember the FL/FR channels go straight to each door and the tweeter is fed from a connection on the mid, it may even just be a simple capacitor crossover built into the tweeter.
Otherwise, are the mids secured to the doors properly? Are they perhaps coming into contact with the grilles when the door cards are back on? I seem to remember you need quite narrow mids for it to work even with a spacing ring.
How does each channel sound in isolation? Are you 100% sure the phases are all correct?
Edited by john_p on Thursday 23 September 17:03
john_p said:
If it is a business sound system then there will be no external amplifier. You get that with HK or the "hi-fi" option.
As far as I remember the FL/FR channels go straight to each door and the tweeter is fed from a connection on the mid, it may even just be a simple capacitor crossover built into the tweeter.
Otherwise, are the mids secured to the doors properly? Are they perhaps coming into contact with the grilles when the door cards are back on? I seem to remember you need quite narrow mids for it to work even with a spacing ring.
How does each channel sound in isolation? Are you 100% sure the phases are all correct?
Hi John P,As far as I remember the FL/FR channels go straight to each door and the tweeter is fed from a connection on the mid, it may even just be a simple capacitor crossover built into the tweeter.
Otherwise, are the mids secured to the doors properly? Are they perhaps coming into contact with the grilles when the door cards are back on? I seem to remember you need quite narrow mids for it to work even with a spacing ring.
How does each channel sound in isolation? Are you 100% sure the phases are all correct?
Edited by john_p on Thursday 23 September 17:03
You were correct, (on both accounts). The speakers/rings I made were coming into contact with the speaker mouding, causing a vibration at certain freqencies. I think I'll fit some neoprene rubber between the speaker's edge and the door structure to stop vibrations and to isolate the rear of the speaker from the front.
I hand my head in shame when I say that I wired the speakers in back to front
I don't think I've damaged them. Having reversed the speakers and trimmed the rings/door moulding it seems better, but there is still some vibration at specific frequencies. The bass just isn't punchy or crips enough for me. I've therefore bought a bass tube/box that I'm going to fit between the rear seats where the ski bag normally goes. This way the door speakers can do the mid/highs and the bass can do the bass.
Might also be worth checking all the connections, but in particular any earth connections for the system.
I recently re-wired the stereo in my old E32, because I needed to tidy up some wiring behind the head unit and replace the phono lead to the amp. The earth strap for the amp needed cleaning up where it was bolted to the chassis, and that, along with re-making all the connections for the speakers gave me a whole truck-load more bass than I had before.
I recently re-wired the stereo in my old E32, because I needed to tidy up some wiring behind the head unit and replace the phono lead to the amp. The earth strap for the amp needed cleaning up where it was bolted to the chassis, and that, along with re-making all the connections for the speakers gave me a whole truck-load more bass than I had before.
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