Discussion
Hello PH
think I need to change my car...
Currently run a E90 330i Msport Touring which I love, however, my mileage has gone from 8k pa to 35k pa and am spending £600/month on fuel.
Am thinking of a 330d (must be manual), this car will be a keeper & similar spec to the petrol that I have at the moment ie dakota etc. BUT I really like the idea of a D3'T', does anyone have experience of these, or indeed both?
Thanks for your input.
think I need to change my car...
Currently run a E90 330i Msport Touring which I love, however, my mileage has gone from 8k pa to 35k pa and am spending £600/month on fuel.
Am thinking of a 330d (must be manual), this car will be a keeper & similar spec to the petrol that I have at the moment ie dakota etc. BUT I really like the idea of a D3'T', does anyone have experience of these, or indeed both?
Thanks for your input.
I've recently brought an e91 330i and had an e90 330d prior to this. When buying the 330d i did try the d3 but the lower spec and the 4 cyclinder engine really made the 330d seem much more of a car. I think coming from your 330i a d3 would be too much of a step down, (you can get the lux version of the d3 now) but the power and engine sound is a big difference whereas this gap is smaller with the 330d. Try them both and you might agree.
A chap on BabyBMW had a Bluefin'd 123d and traded it in for a 330d (the older 230bhp engine) a year or so ago, from what I recall of comments at the time he said the stock 330d was pretty much as quick as the chipped 123d but after a while the comparative turbo lag on the 330d engine got a bit annoying, but perhaps the newer x30d engine might be better in that respect?
I think of those two the 330d would be top of the shopping list over the D3, but I'd try both first as I think it would be close. Ive not driven a 330d myself but have a stock 123d which is the same engine as the D3 but down about 10bhp, and have driven a 130i which is the engine you're coming from. The 130 was ultimately quicker as would be expected, but for normal driving I think the 123d is often the quicker of the two. Certainly in the lower half of their respective rev ranges until the x30i gets above about 4-4.5k, a boggo 123d has it licked whilst keeping below 3k, so if you spend most of your time following traffic and not on empty rural B roads bouncing off the red line, then the D3 may well be an equally swift mode of transport as your current car. The x23d engine does also rev incredibly well for a diesel so even in the higher rev range it doesn't die a death like most diesels, but it obviously doesnt build power like a NA petrol so isn't as fun to thrash.
I think of those two the 330d would be top of the shopping list over the D3, but I'd try both first as I think it would be close. Ive not driven a 330d myself but have a stock 123d which is the same engine as the D3 but down about 10bhp, and have driven a 130i which is the engine you're coming from. The 130 was ultimately quicker as would be expected, but for normal driving I think the 123d is often the quicker of the two. Certainly in the lower half of their respective rev ranges until the x30i gets above about 4-4.5k, a boggo 123d has it licked whilst keeping below 3k, so if you spend most of your time following traffic and not on empty rural B roads bouncing off the red line, then the D3 may well be an equally swift mode of transport as your current car. The x23d engine does also rev incredibly well for a diesel so even in the higher rev range it doesn't die a death like most diesels, but it obviously doesnt build power like a NA petrol so isn't as fun to thrash.
I currently have an E91 330d auto, not had it long but had an E91 335d 6 months ago,
When buying the current E91 I seen two D3 Tourings locally and I did consider them but for me a 4cylinder 3 series just seemed pointless, I had a 118d and hated the 4 cylinder engine, so the D3 idea was quickly sidelined, It must be me though as I have never kept or gelled with any 4 cylinder car I have owned.
For me the 330d was a great compromise, and I wouldn't dismiss an Auto, they are perfectly matched with the diesel engine, prior to the 335d I wouldn't have considered an auto but now I'm converted
When buying the current E91 I seen two D3 Tourings locally and I did consider them but for me a 4cylinder 3 series just seemed pointless, I had a 118d and hated the 4 cylinder engine, so the D3 idea was quickly sidelined, It must be me though as I have never kept or gelled with any 4 cylinder car I have owned.
For me the 330d was a great compromise, and I wouldn't dismiss an Auto, they are perfectly matched with the diesel engine, prior to the 335d I wouldn't have considered an auto but now I'm converted
The comments so far have concentrated on the different engines (perhaps understandably so) and I don't think there's too much doubt that a 330d with the latest 245bhp engine would offer more grunt and greater refinement than a D3 bi-turbo. However, based purely on what I've read in the motoring press, the Alpina may hold the upper hand in the chassis department as the ride/handling combination is apparently a real strength; in contrast, the 3-series in sport spec leaves a bit to be desired in the ride department (at least IMO) and that's potentially quite important when you're doing 35k miles a year as a fidegty ride can become very wearing. The D3 may also be a bit better on fuel (also a factor if you're doing high miles) so I can certainly see a case for the Alpina!
The one concern I'd have with an Alpina is that their residuals never appear that strong so you really need to avoid over-paying when you buy. I guess that's true with any purchase but most nearly new Alpinas still seem to be within the Sytner network and I'm sure they work hard at maintaining the value of the brand; just need to hard-nosed when you negotiate!
The one concern I'd have with an Alpina is that their residuals never appear that strong so you really need to avoid over-paying when you buy. I guess that's true with any purchase but most nearly new Alpinas still seem to be within the Sytner network and I'm sure they work hard at maintaining the value of the brand; just need to hard-nosed when you negotiate!
If the D3 has the same box and diff ratio as the manual 123d then it will be OK but not brilliant for economy at motorway speeds as it's geared a bit low compared to most similar powered diesels. 80 equates to about 2500rpm at which point it will do about 45mpg tops, a figure I can easily match on fairly rural A and B roads on my 20 mile commute to work. Its at its most economical at about 50-60mph Id say so an ideal busy M25 cruiser where you're in moving traffic most of the time, but not if you like cruising at higer leptons.
Thanks guys. It looks like it'll be a 6 cyl car then. I found ditching the runflats improved the ride & handling no end so will be doing that on the next one.
Won't be happening for 4 months tho' as am off on saturday overseas for 4 months- still, something to look fwd to on my return.
Won't be happening for 4 months tho' as am off on saturday overseas for 4 months- still, something to look fwd to on my return.
The problem with the D3 is the fact that to add any factory options to the car you must pay a £2000 options fee. This means that almost all of them have a comically poor level of spec. Go take a look at the facelift D3 BiTurbos on autotrader - most have cloth seats and manual air conditioning - thats right, not even cruise control.
A real shame.
The 330d is thus the far better bet. But I suspect much of your fuel spend is the fact you do 35k PA rather than the 330i. Have you sat down and worked out how much you'll actually save? It may not be as much as you think. If you drive a 330d properly you certainly wont be averaging 50mpg.
A real shame.
The 330d is thus the far better bet. But I suspect much of your fuel spend is the fact you do 35k PA rather than the 330i. Have you sat down and worked out how much you'll actually save? It may not be as much as you think. If you drive a 330d properly you certainly wont be averaging 50mpg.
griffdude said:
Yes, you're right, most used D3s that I've investigated have poor specs compared to mainstream 3 series.
Regarding cost- If I can achieve 45mpg on a 330d, that'll be 50% more than I average on the 330i, with a 3p/litre increase against petrol, the sums stack up IMO.
Ok so that implies you are getting 30ish from your 330i which implies a fair mix of conditions (I would reckon to get mid 30s on a motorway run or maybe a bit more if really trying). Regarding cost- If I can achieve 45mpg on a 330d, that'll be 50% more than I average on the 330i, with a 3p/litre increase against petrol, the sums stack up IMO.
Does a 330d really get 45mpg in mixed driving ?
The commute that I do each week is about 340 miles each way each week, 95% motorway & regularly achieve 30mpg (at best 32mpg), this is possibly a little low due to the constant delays on the M6 & my attempts to 'make up time'.
Is 45mpg for a drive like this a little optimistic for a 330d?
Is 45mpg for a drive like this a little optimistic for a 330d?
Make Model Year Engine Man/Auto BHP Local MPG Distance MPG
BMW 330d Coupe 2004 3.0 Manual 204 36 42
BMW 330d Coupe 2007 3.0 Auto - 31 44
BMW 330d Saloon 2002 3.0 Auto 210 35 40
BMW 330d Saloon 2003 3.0 Manual 204 37 48
Dunno if this helps much - it's taken from the 'Real World MPG wiki' here
That would seem to indicate your 45mpg is not unrealistic ?
(sorry - the formatting is squidgy but you get the idea
)
BMW 330d Coupe 2004 3.0 Manual 204 36 42
BMW 330d Coupe 2007 3.0 Auto - 31 44
BMW 330d Saloon 2002 3.0 Auto 210 35 40
BMW 330d Saloon 2003 3.0 Manual 204 37 48
Dunno if this helps much - it's taken from the 'Real World MPG wiki' here
That would seem to indicate your 45mpg is not unrealistic ?
(sorry - the formatting is squidgy but you get the idea
)Legacywr said:
I will probably get slated for this, I would rather have manual a/c than climate control!
Turn the heater on when it's cold and the a/c when it's hot!
You obviously don't know how climate control works then. In my car for example when its 27c outside my car is icy cool inside. When it's -4c outside my car is toasty warm inside.Turn the heater on when it's cold and the a/c when it's hot!
I never need to change any settings for this.
Fox- said:
Legacywr said:
I will probably get slated for this, I would rather have manual a/c than climate control!
Turn the heater on when it's cold and the a/c when it's hot!
You obviously don't know how climate control works then. In my car for example when its 27c outside my car is icy cool inside. When it's -4c outside my car is toasty warm inside.Turn the heater on when it's cold and the a/c when it's hot!
I never need to change any settings for this.
Edited by Legacywr on Wednesday 10th November 20:07
griffdude said:
The commute that I do each week is about 340 miles each way each week, 95% motorway & regularly achieve 30mpg (at best 32mpg), this is possibly a little low due to the constant delays on the M6 & my attempts to 'make up time'.
Is 45mpg for a drive like this a little optimistic for a 330d?
My 330d gave me 41mpg and for exactly same journeys the 330i gives me 29. So based on your figures you'll get 42-44 for your 330d..Is 45mpg for a drive like this a little optimistic for a 330d?
If your doing 35k a year you need an auto and if you go for the 330d the new one if motorway use will easily do high 40's then if you try for economy you will be well into the 50's
In mine on my commute 25miles ave speed due to congestion is 30mph and that equates to 40-42 mpg 231bhp engine. Take it on a long m way drive and I've seen nearly 55mpg for the whole trip drove to brugge driving up to 80leptons over the channel and leaving cruise on 70mph in the uk.
For those saying the x23d engine freely revs it does but likewise so does the big three. And the newer three up to 5,500rpm too!!!
70mph is 1,750 rpm which is nice
non run flats are a must but still you will have wide super low profile tyres and it does make road noise and tramline but then give it some round the corners and it just grips and it's easy to hit the APEX.
Also overtaking is really simple really simple which is fun
In mine on my commute 25miles ave speed due to congestion is 30mph and that equates to 40-42 mpg 231bhp engine. Take it on a long m way drive and I've seen nearly 55mpg for the whole trip drove to brugge driving up to 80leptons over the channel and leaving cruise on 70mph in the uk.
For those saying the x23d engine freely revs it does but likewise so does the big three. And the newer three up to 5,500rpm too!!!
70mph is 1,750 rpm which is nice
non run flats are a must but still you will have wide super low profile tyres and it does make road noise and tramline but then give it some round the corners and it just grips and it's easy to hit the APEX.
Also overtaking is really simple really simple which is fun
35k a year plus it's perfectly matched to the diesel.
Also resale most drivers of big diesel engines want auto so there are very few manual used as is and it is a very niche market.
I do 15-18k a year and got fed up with congestion driving thousands of gear changes every trip or slipping the clutch auto total relaxation
Also resale most drivers of big diesel engines want auto so there are very few manual used as is and it is a very niche market.
I do 15-18k a year and got fed up with congestion driving thousands of gear changes every trip or slipping the clutch auto total relaxation
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