BMW 123d Coupe - thoughts?
Discussion
OK, apologies for the multitude of questions - just doing my research!
what's the general feel for what these cars are like to live with day to day?
I currently drive a 130i M-Sport - so would I find the 123 diesel dull to drive? Is day-to-day ride quality decent or too harsh? Stereo good enough? What is the real-world economy/range? With DTC cut back/disabled, is tail out action on the menu like it is in the 130i? Which gearbox works best with the powertrain - Manual or Auto?
Final question, what are the service intervals?
Thanks chaps!
what's the general feel for what these cars are like to live with day to day?
I currently drive a 130i M-Sport - so would I find the 123 diesel dull to drive? Is day-to-day ride quality decent or too harsh? Stereo good enough? What is the real-world economy/range? With DTC cut back/disabled, is tail out action on the menu like it is in the 130i? Which gearbox works best with the powertrain - Manual or Auto?
Final question, what are the service intervals?
Thanks chaps!
Edited by daveknott5 on Friday 7th January 12:08
Dave, I think you've drunk too much over xmas, reasons being:
- 123d will still get good mpg even if you drive it like you stole it, low 40's into 30's, but drive it like your mum on a sunday afternoon and you will be on high 40's.
- Ride is okay, looks great in dark colours
- Stereo okay if business one, with woofers under front seats, then there is a quick fix for tweeters in mirror triangles to improve soundstage.
- Turn off DTC and all that torque will break your grip, less rev happy, but still as diesels go very rev happy, and great delivery of power. Maybe more suited to holding on grip limit and just driving rather than shredding rubber like a teenager on an ASBO in an old Orion.
- Not much will beat you on motorway 50-80.
- Servicing same as anything else, uprated front brakes so pads and discs a bit more, else the same.
- Stop reading this, go and buy one, get a few quid knocked off, and make sure you go M-sport guise too, it will hold money and make you smile.
- 123d will still get good mpg even if you drive it like you stole it, low 40's into 30's, but drive it like your mum on a sunday afternoon and you will be on high 40's.
- Ride is okay, looks great in dark colours
- Stereo okay if business one, with woofers under front seats, then there is a quick fix for tweeters in mirror triangles to improve soundstage.
- Turn off DTC and all that torque will break your grip, less rev happy, but still as diesels go very rev happy, and great delivery of power. Maybe more suited to holding on grip limit and just driving rather than shredding rubber like a teenager on an ASBO in an old Orion.
- Not much will beat you on motorway 50-80.
- Servicing same as anything else, uprated front brakes so pads and discs a bit more, else the same.
- Stop reading this, go and buy one, get a few quid knocked off, and make sure you go M-sport guise too, it will hold money and make you smile.
I traded-in my z4m for a 123d msport 3dr hatch over Christmas and so far and its really impressed me, infact I'm quite surprised by how good it is. Performance wise, especially in 3rd and above it flies, and is great to hustle around back roads. I do a 45 mile round trip a day and am averaging 41mpg. I'm sure it could be a lot higher if I drove it more conservatively! I got the 5 year service & maintenance package thrown in with mine but I believe servicing is approx every 12k, thats what its showing on the dash. It currently has run flats on which makes the ride quite hard in addition to the msport suspension. Tax per year is just over £100. All in all, its hard to fault for the performance and running costs. Go for it!
Simply due to the impact it could make to my wallet! I currently spend £55-60 per week on fuel with the 130i and cover an average of 260 miles on each tank in my 130i before I'm near empty. I average 12-14000 miles per year, so by my reckoning I could halve my fuel costs for the year and double the possible mileage range per tank of fuel by getting a 123d.
If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
Oh Behave said:
I traded-in my z4m for a 123d msport 3dr hatch over Christmas and so far and its really impressed me, infact I'm quite surprised by how good it is. Performance wise, especially in 3rd and above it flies, and is great to hustle around back roads. I do a 45 mile round trip a day and am averaging 41mpg. I'm sure it could be a lot higher if I drove it more conservatively! I got the 5 year service & maintenance package thrown in with mine but I believe servicing is approx every 12k, thats what its showing on the dash. It currently has run flats on which makes the ride quite hard in addition to the msport suspension. Tax per year is just over £100. All in all, its hard to fault for the performance and running costs. Go for it!
That's funny, because I swapped my 123d m-sport coupe (which i had from new for 2 years) for a Z4M 
Totally agree on changing the runflats - they ruin the car
A remap is worth doing too (although you do reintroduce a load of turbo lag that bmw cleverly reduced).
the_g_ster said:
- Ride is okay, looks great in dark colours
- Stop reading this, go and buy one, get a few quid knocked off, and make sure you go M-sport guise too, it will hold money and make you smile.
- ride is dire on run flats, it's very very crashy, but pretty good on non-runflat tyres- Stop reading this, go and buy one, get a few quid knocked off, and make sure you go M-sport guise too, it will hold money and make you smile.
- it will not hold it's value, it will plummet like a stone if you get a new one. Mine was in percentage and cash terms the worst depreciating car i have ever owned. Really, really bad.
alfaspiderman2 said:
My short list includes the 130i and 123d. I do 15k miles a year but still favouring the 130i
Out of interest, why would you swap a 130i for a 123d?
Get the 130i. The 123d is a good car, but it's just missing some undefinable quality. I spent 18 months of the 24 wishing I had something else. The power is too easily available, and it's too wishy-washy at the top of the rev range... will get bored of it quickly in a way you won't with the straight 6 in the 130i. If you're the sort of person who is looking at the classifieds 6 weeks after getting a new car - get the straight 6! In summary - fast, capable and but ultimately dull and unrewarding (relatively).Out of interest, why would you swap a 130i for a 123d?
Stage 1 - bloody hell that midrange is awesome
Stage 2 - oh, that's all there is.
daveknott5 said:
Simply due to the impact it could make to my wallet! I currently spend £55-60 per week on fuel with the 130i and cover an average of 260 miles on each tank in my 130i before I'm near empty. I average 12-14000 miles per year, so by my reckoning I could halve my fuel costs for the year and double the possible mileage range per tank of fuel by getting a 123d.
If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
I do 15k miles a year and, if as you suggest, a 123d would halve my fuel bills, I could justify it. However, I'm working on the basis of 30mpg average in the 130i and 45mpg in the 123d - do you reckon the gap would be wider than this? If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
Also, over 50k miles, I'm thinking the petrol would be cheaper to maintain and potentially more reliable?
alfaspiderman2 said:
daveknott5 said:
Simply due to the impact it could make to my wallet! I currently spend £55-60 per week on fuel with the 130i and cover an average of 260 miles on each tank in my 130i before I'm near empty. I average 12-14000 miles per year, so by my reckoning I could halve my fuel costs for the year and double the possible mileage range per tank of fuel by getting a 123d.
If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
I do 15k miles a year and, if as you suggest, a 123d would halve my fuel bills, I could justify it. However, I'm working on the basis of 30mpg average in the 130i and 45mpg in the 123d - do you reckon the gap would be wider than this? If I'm only spending £55 every two weeks, rather than every week as I do now with the 130i, I reckon I'd save £1430 per year......
Also, over 50k miles, I'm thinking the petrol would be cheaper to maintain and potentially more reliable?
You won't get more than 45mpg, and if you do you might as well have a 116d because you won't ever use the second turbo.
The range isn't bad for a small tank though - 450 miles or so
How much have you got to spend?
What about the 335d coupe?
Mine is doing over 40, typically 41-42mpg over the tank, just shy of 600 miles range on my commute. Includes a bit of fun in there. around 36-37 on short journeys too which is excellent.
However tax is something like £120 for 6 months.
As for the 123d coupe, it's a very attractive package. I would take the auto box, i just don't find BMW manuals all that great. Personally love the 130i's and the 135i's but as with all bigger petrols there are compromises.
If the 123d is anything like the 335d there is ample tail out opportunity and plenty of donut fun in the snow. Be aware, none of the diesels are anywhere near as fun to drive as the 6cylinder and up petrols. The sound and rev range just cannot be beaten for ultimate fun but that is a sacrifice you will have to make if you need to change.
What about the 335d coupe?
Mine is doing over 40, typically 41-42mpg over the tank, just shy of 600 miles range on my commute. Includes a bit of fun in there. around 36-37 on short journeys too which is excellent.
However tax is something like £120 for 6 months.
As for the 123d coupe, it's a very attractive package. I would take the auto box, i just don't find BMW manuals all that great. Personally love the 130i's and the 135i's but as with all bigger petrols there are compromises.
If the 123d is anything like the 335d there is ample tail out opportunity and plenty of donut fun in the snow. Be aware, none of the diesels are anywhere near as fun to drive as the 6cylinder and up petrols. The sound and rev range just cannot be beaten for ultimate fun but that is a sacrifice you will have to make if you need to change.
Edited by briers on Saturday 8th January 01:04
Dave I'm sorry but I'd have thought the cost of changing out of your 130i and into the 123d would more than negate any saving on fuel costs. So unless you intensely hate filling stations and therefore value the increased range of the diesel I'd sit tight. In addition, much more to go wrong with the diesel engine... IMHO of course
mine will be for sale shortly, as went in to spec my 1M Coupe yesterday. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll put a full thing up in the classifieds
- 123d m coupe (Mar '10)
- 7000 miles
- professional satnav (with new idrive)
- xenons
- adaptive headlights
- logic7 hifi upgrade (now called harmon kardon)
- usb audio port
- bluetooth + telematics
- voice control
- servicing pack for first 5 years
It's a great car, hadn't planned to change, but the 1M coupe has persuaded me.
- 123d m coupe (Mar '10)
- 7000 miles
- professional satnav (with new idrive)
- xenons
- adaptive headlights
- logic7 hifi upgrade (now called harmon kardon)
- usb audio port
- bluetooth + telematics
- voice control
- servicing pack for first 5 years
It's a great car, hadn't planned to change, but the 1M coupe has persuaded me.
tgr said:
Dave I'm sorry but I'd have thought the cost of changing out of your 130i and into the 123d would more than negate any saving on fuel costs. So unless you intensely hate filling stations and therefore value the increased range of the diesel I'd sit tight. In addition, much more to go wrong with the diesel engine... IMHO of course
^^^ This ^^^I've got a 123d and they're fantastic for a diesel and I can understand wanting to reduce the day to day running costs, but you're not going to get a 123d for the money you'll get for your 130 because they were only available from mid 2007 and they hold their value better than the 130. Unless you find a silly high mileage car you'll have to put in a few thousand to change, so personally I'd also keep what you've got if I were you.
Edited by LocoBlade on Sunday 9th January 22:28
My 2010 123d msport coupe does an average of 42.8mpg, has great steering feel, a bit limited in back seat and boot space, and the ride on run flats is a bit hard. I love it though, even if it is s
te on snow and icy surfaces. Oh, forgot...the lack of a coolant temperature guage is very mean!
te on snow and icy surfaces. Oh, forgot...the lack of a coolant temperature guage is very mean!LocoBlade said:
tgr said:
Dave I'm sorry but I'd have thought the cost of changing out of your 130i and into the 123d would more than negate any saving on fuel costs. So unless you intensely hate filling stations and therefore value the increased range of the diesel I'd sit tight. In addition, much more to go wrong with the diesel engine... IMHO of course
^^^ This ^^^I've got a 123d and they're fantastic for a diesel and I can understand wanting to reduce the day to day running costs, but you're not going to get a 123d for the money you'll get for your 130 because they were only available from mid 2007 and they hold their value better than the 130. Unless you find a silly high mileage car you'll have to put in a few thousand to change, so personally I'd also keep what you've got if I were you.
Edited by LocoBlade on Sunday 9th January 22:28
Still, when does changing cars ever make financial sense!? Man Maths is usually a big factor in deciding when to change cars
I could always keep the 130i (which has been a FANTASTIC car), but the lure of something new and different is pretty tempting!Other non-diesel options I'm considering are the MX5 2.0 Sport Tech (37mpg and lots of fun), or a Clio Sport 200 (not particularly economical but they're supposed to be a hell of a lot of fun and a nearly new one can be had for ~£13k.
A 330d or 335d could also be an option (and I'd prefer the six cylinder engines vs the four pot in the 123d), but I've heard realistic mpg for these is more like high thirties - which isn't so far away from the mpg I get in the 130i (29mpg average).....
I think some test drives are needed.......
I have to disagree, the rise is pretty good for a run flat tyred car, much better than people give credit for. If you hit a pothole hard then you do feel like you have gone down a crater, but the roads at the moment are in a pretty bad state post snow and ice. The majority of the time you won't have a problem.
In terms of residuals then anybody hopefully know's that if you buy new and walk off the forecourt then you've taken the biggest financial slap you'll ever get. That said the do hold their value well as evidenced in lease rates and the second hand values. For as along as they get good press as being affordable with little in the way of issues then values should hold over petrol counterparts. Over a three year ownership the residuals will be pretty good, as will a well sorted 118d or 120d coupe too. A poverty spec car won't fair so well, but as mentioned the msport model and higher spec standard models should fair better than many alternatives.
In terms of residuals then anybody hopefully know's that if you buy new and walk off the forecourt then you've taken the biggest financial slap you'll ever get. That said the do hold their value well as evidenced in lease rates and the second hand values. For as along as they get good press as being affordable with little in the way of issues then values should hold over petrol counterparts. Over a three year ownership the residuals will be pretty good, as will a well sorted 118d or 120d coupe too. A poverty spec car won't fair so well, but as mentioned the msport model and higher spec standard models should fair better than many alternatives.
High spec models will cost loads to buy though (if you buy new) so depreciation is not good at all really.
I've always thought this about BMW's second hand values, to be worth anything you have to spec them up. If you buy 'stock' you'll be crucified at trade in yet all the press will tell you how well they hold money compared to more run of the mill cars. However, this is based on basic list price compared to average selling prices second hand. This is false as most have '000's extra spent on extra's from new (audi/merc are no different).
Witness my '05 E90 330i bought for 22k at 2 years old and 20k miles which was 38.5k new. What did the trade give for it? 19k? That's 50% loss in 2 years and virtually £1/mile. Trade would probably value it at 8-9k today 3 years later, a 30k loss in 5.1/2 yrs and only 52k miles.
Therefore, keep the 130i !
Failing that, if you want to 'save' cash just get a 120d (well specced second hand)as i belive they have higher gearing than the 123d hence better mpg, which is what you get a diesel for anyway.
I've always thought this about BMW's second hand values, to be worth anything you have to spec them up. If you buy 'stock' you'll be crucified at trade in yet all the press will tell you how well they hold money compared to more run of the mill cars. However, this is based on basic list price compared to average selling prices second hand. This is false as most have '000's extra spent on extra's from new (audi/merc are no different).
Witness my '05 E90 330i bought for 22k at 2 years old and 20k miles which was 38.5k new. What did the trade give for it? 19k? That's 50% loss in 2 years and virtually £1/mile. Trade would probably value it at 8-9k today 3 years later, a 30k loss in 5.1/2 yrs and only 52k miles.
Therefore, keep the 130i !
Failing that, if you want to 'save' cash just get a 120d (well specced second hand)as i belive they have higher gearing than the 123d hence better mpg, which is what you get a diesel for anyway.
daveknott5 said:
A 330d or 335d could also be an option (and I'd prefer the six cylinder engines vs the four pot in the 123d), but I've heard realistic mpg for these is more like high thirties - which isn't so far away from the mpg I get in the 130i (29mpg average).....
Don't know about the 335D but my 2009 E91 330D is currently averaging 45mpg over the last 12k miles. That includes alot of short journeys plus a few very long ones across Europe - brilliant engine & car.If the real reason is you want something different then that's fine, I just don't think you'll save money doing the swap. it's an overly used phrase but having driven both, "in the real world" the 123d is easier to drive quickly than the 130, in that in the first half of their respective rev ranges, the 123d is quicker, and you need to be above about 5k in the 130 before you'll see any performance advantage so most of the time I don't think you'd miss the performance of your current car. One of the buying criteria seems to be fun though, and good as it is for a diesel with a power band/delivery as good as most turbo petrols, it's still not got the top end excitement you get in the 130 so certainly try one to see what it's like before you spend too much time working out the economics etc.
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