130i to Z4C 3.0

[Heathwood]

Hi folks

Currently run a 130i M Sport, which I like very much. However, I'm considering a change to a Z4 Coupe 3.0. I just love the shape and it's a bit more special than the 1 series.

Has anyone any experience of running / owning both? Is it really worth a cost to change of, say, £5k?

Thanks

[Gruber]

They're both brilliant cars, but very very similar in many respects.

Is your 130 the earlier 230-ish bhp engine or the later 265-ish version? The Z4C will have the latter and it really is a peach of an engine. But is an extra 30bhp really worth £5k?

The drive and feel and handling of the two cars is very similar (certainly in most everday driving situations) and to my mind the added versatility of the 1 series, better visibility, much better seats, etc probably gives it the edge. Personally, I wouldn't be able to justify the £5k extra to make that change.

If you can stretch to the Z4MC, well then that's a whole different matter...

[snorkel sucker]

I was under the impression that all 130i's have the 260bhp engine?

I love the coupe, and often wonder whether to change to one. I don't need 5 doors, or seats that the 130i gives.

Evo I think, rated the coupe as 5 stars, and commented on its lower CoG and weight as giving a slightly better driving experience than the 130i. The review s worth a read. Its also one of the best looking cars BMW make IMO.

Of course, the Z4M would be an even better choice, but, as per my comments in my garage section, I think the engine in the 130i and the coupe provides as near as dammit as many thrills as the Z4M would, but with manageable running costs.

I still wouldn't say no to a Z4M though...!

[Vroomer]

The Z4C is a superb car. The Z4MC isn't worth the extra running costs (great car that it is!).

[Pulse]

Vroomer said:

The Z4C is a superb car. The Z4MC isn't worth the extra running costs (great car that it is!).

Totally agree. The Z4MC just isn't worth the extra.

Make the change! It's so much more special than a 1er!

[Gruber]

Pulse said:

Vroomer said:

The Z4C is a superb car. The Z4MC isn't worth the extra running costs (great car that it is!).

Totally agree. The Z4MC just isn't worth the extra.

I think you're both wrong. I've owned both. The M is a bit better in every single way, adding up to a much better car overall. And I didn't find the slightly increased running costs came anywhere near negating the benefits. But that's probably getting us off topic...

Snorkel - I'm sure Evo is right that at 10/10s the Z4 is the better steer, but I'd still question whether that makes it worth the OP's while spending £5k to upgrade.

Edited by Gruber on Wednesday 27th April 12:41

[Pulse]

Gruber said:

I think you're both wrong. I've owned both. The M is a bit better in every single way, adding up to a much better car overall. And I didn't find the slightly increased running costs came anywhere near negating the benefits.

I guess it all comes down to expectations of a car, and your VfM thresholds. The M was barely different to me, and in fact worse in the noise department. That's not to say it's a bad car, but I still think overall, pound for pound, the 3.0si is the better car.

[volvos60s60]

Well I have a Z4C & keep considering a 3 dr 1 series. Yes, it would be more practical & cheaper to run, but I just love the sense of occaision with the Z4C. Every journey is something to look forward to, it looks great,, is fast enough as a road car & is, perhaps, a future classic. Also, in truth, it does not cost that much to run. I will end up keeping mine as I don't think anything else in the price bracket will make me think 'what a damn good looking car' every time I walk up to it. Also, as mine is black, what other car would have my kids saying 'can we go in the Batmobile Dad?'......

[Gruber]

Pulse said:

Gruber said:

I think you're both wrong. I've owned both. The M is a bit better in every single way, adding up to a much better car overall. And I didn't find the slightly increased running costs came anywhere near negating the benefits.

I guess it all comes down to expectations of a car, and your VfM thresholds. The M was barely different to me, and in fact worse in the noise department. That's not to say it's a bad car, but I still think overall, pound for pound, the 3.0si is the better car.

Each to their own! It would be boring if we all liked the same things.

Out of interest, did you spend much time driving the M? I certainly found it took a little time to get the most out of it, and I suspect if I'd driven both side-by-side for 30 mins each I would probably have reached the same conclusion as you. The 3.0 is certainly easier to drive (lighter clutch and easier gear change), so probably creates a better first impression.

[Heathwood]

Thanks for the input so far folks.

Had a look at a Z4C this morning. Not really with a view to buy; just wanted to have a look around it, sit in it and compare to my 130.

Well, I've got to say, apart from the looks, I'm not sure its worth paying a fairly sizeable chunk extra to replace the 130.

Wasn't overly keen on the interior, less toys and slightly poorer build (IMO). Also, most come with the same wheels as facelift E46 3 series, which actually make the car look a little dated in some ways.

Same drivetrain, so despite being about 50kg lighter and having a lower COG, I can't imagine they drive that much different. Actually, in saying that, I couldn't help noticing that the engine was a lot further forward than I expected. Not hung out the front like an Audi, but certainly not tucked up half under the bulkhead like the 130. I've heard the Z4C's can understeer a little; perhaps this is a clue why.

So, initial impressions have left me a bit luke warm. I'm thinking that it would have to be a Z4MC or Boxster S to feel like a worthwhile step.

Edited by Heathwood on Wednesday 27th April 13:09

[snorkel sucker]

Interesting report OP. I have never actually been to look at one to compare to my 130i. Would be interesting to see how they drive though, noting your comments about the engine; the one in the 130i is, as you say, noticeably far back (relatively speaking).

Its the aesthetics of the coupe which make it desireable. In rational terms, I don't think I could justify paying more just for that fact though.

As a suggestion, you could perhaps look at tweaking your 130i in the handling department. I have ditched the run flats and got rid of the staggered setup and the car understeers less. I hear that changing some of the suspension components has a noticeable effect.

[Heathwood]

snorkel sucker said:

Its the aesthetics of the coupe which make it desireable. In rational terms, I don't think I could justify paying more just for that fact though.

Yep, hit the nail on the head.

However, another thing to consider I reckon is depreciation. Few people want a big engine in a small hatchback, especially nowadays, so most people would just go out a buy a 118d. As a result, 130's are depreciating quite heavily still. However, I reckon the Z4C is a potential future (minor) classic and attracts a different sort of buyer. So, that extra expense now may be largely recovered in a few years time, perhaps.

[navier_stokes]

snorkel sucker said:

I was under the impression that all 130i's have the 260bhp engine?

Correct, the 3.0l, 262hp engine is unique to all 130i's and the E85/6 Z4 3.0si.

[snorkel sucker]

Heathwood said:

snorkel sucker said:

Its the aesthetics of the coupe which make it desireable. In rational terms, I don't think I could justify paying more just for that fact though.

Yep, hit the nail on the head.

However, another thing to consider I reckon is depreciation. Few people want a big engine in a small hatchback, especially nowadays, so most people would just go out a buy a 118d. As a result, 130's are depreciating quite heavily still. However, I reckon the Z4C is a potential future (minor) classic and attracts a different sort of buyer. So, that extra expense now may be largely recovered in a few years time, perhaps.

Yup, you have, unfortunately, reinforced my ongoing worry about the 130i with regards depreciation! As good a car as it is, if someone is in the market to buy a 5 door "family" car, then they are more likely to opt for the diesel versions.

Still, the fact that the engine is one of BMW's last masterpieces of the N/A variety may count for something....I hope!

I do agree though that the coupé will be every bit as desirable as the Z4M version. Still, its only likely to settle a couple of grand more than the 130i, perhaps!

[billzeebub]

do it..although your current car is great, it could be seen as a sporty shopping trolley by some..the Z4 is a seriously cool car..even if the driving experience is not so different, it is in my opinion well worth £5k premium

[custardkid]

1) I don’t see how anyone can say they feel the same to drive?!?!!?
- one has you sat at the end of long bonnet over the rear wheels like you are bare backing a cruise missile
- the other you are sat further forward, higher up, more bent legged and have the kids in the back....

2) the Z4MC vs Z4 3.0si has been done to death here... I’ve driven both, hard, and know which I'd go for. yes the M is more expensive than the si, but it is better ... just like a M3 > 330i, GT3>carrera, 458 > punto

I challenge any one to drive an s54 on a challenging road all the way to 8000rpm and not want one!



Custard

[Patrick Bateman]

navier_stokes said:

Correct, the 3.0l, 262hp engine is unique to all 130i's and the E85/6 Z4 3.0si.

Is this still one of the slightly older, more reliable engines?

I've seen a few people post on here that any x30i car post 2005 can have real issues with the engine.

[clabcon]

Patrick Bateman said:

navier_stokes said:

Correct, the 3.0l, 262hp engine is unique to all 130i's and the E85/6 Z4 3.0si.

Is this still one of the slightly older, more reliable engines?

I've seen a few people post on here that any x30i car post 2005 can have real issues with the engine.

snorkel sucker said:

Heathwood said:

snorkel sucker said:

Its the aesthetics of the coupe which make it desireable. In rational terms, I don't think I could justify paying more just for that fact though.

Yep, hit the nail on the head.

However, another thing to consider I reckon is depreciation. Few people want a big engine in a small hatchback, especially nowadays, so most people would just go out a buy a 118d. As a result, 130's are depreciating quite heavily still. However, I reckon the Z4C is a potential future (minor) classic and attracts a different sort of buyer. So, that extra expense now may be largely recovered in a few years time, perhaps.

Snorkel Sucker said:

Still, the fact that the engine is one of BMW's last masterpieces of the N/A variety may count for something....I hope!

Sure its a masterpiece for a non-S developed engine, but the reality is that the early 90's S50B30 3.0 litre M3 E36 unit is still a much better engine IMHO vs. any of the modern NA 3.0 litre lumps (N54 excluded). I had a friend a black e36 m3 3.0 and it went very well

[Pulse]

Patrick Bateman said:

I've seen a few people post on here that any x30i car post 2005 can have real issues with the engine.

Correct! Hydraulic Valve Adjusters have problems on the N52 engine featured in the Z4 3.0si, 2.5si, 130i, 330i, 530i, etc etc.

I had new lifters put in mine, which didn't solve the problem. I then had an entire new cylinder head assembly, which once replaced sorted the problem, but seemed down on power.

[Patrick Bateman]

Pulse said:

Correct! Hydraulic Valve Adjusters have problems on the N52 engine featured in the Z4 3.0si, 2.5si, 130i, 330i, 530i, etc etc.

I had new lifters put in mine, which didn't solve the problem. I then had an entire new cylinder head assembly, which once replaced sorted the problem, but seemed down on power.

I'm guessing this doesn't apply to the early 130i's though despite the increased power?

Having looked on parkers, the power stays the same with the later cars but the mpg and emissions decrease so I'd guess the early ones are indeed different.