off road dilema

[mel]

I'm toying with changing the XR400R (now 18months old) and the short list is as follows
1.CRF250X Enduro spec with magic button adn road legal (ish)
2. CRF450R Motorcross spec no magic button but with a road kit and then registered

or

3. Wait till sept/oct and go for the expected CRF450X but nothing on this bike is certain or even confirmed yet.

There's nothing wrong with the XR I just fancy a bit more speed for the summer months and am toying with the idea of getting a supermoto kit for whatever I go with for a bit of road fun. My biggest worry is that the 250 just won't satisfy, but it has got the magic button and that really does appeal.

[Stig]

Why not go for a WR450F until the CR comes out Mel?

There's also the WR450F 2Trac!

[fergus]

mel said:

I'm toying with changing the XR400R (now 18months old) and the short list is as follows 1.CRF250X Enduro spec with magic button adn road legal (ish) 2. CRF450R Motorcross spec no magic button but with a road kit and then registered or 3. Wait till sept/oct and go for the expected CRF450X but nothing on this bike is certain or even confirmed yet. There's nothing wrong with the XR I just fancy a bit more speed for the summer months and am toying with the idea of getting a supermoto kit for whatever I go with for a bit of road fun. My biggest worry is that the 250 just won't satisfy, but it has got the magic button and that really does appeal.

Mel,
Depends what you use your XR for. I had a CRF450R and for MX track work it's great (it is a BIG step up from the XR), but for tight stuff and for greenlaning, it's far too much. It has a very close ratio g/box, with a very high first, and with having a flat slide carb, has electric throttle response as soon as you turn the throttle even a few mm. Try and get a ride on one before you buy. The other points to consider are the maintenance. Check out the owners manual BEFORE you part with any cash. New piston every 15-30 hours. (PS check out the piston in the spares kit - it's extremely short-skirted and looks like an F1 piston!). The valves are bucket and shim, not tappets, and so you'll need a shim kit to do the valuves, which need doing every 10 hours. The oil (for the engine anyway) needs changing after every 2nd ride without fail.
If you stand still with no airflow through the rad for more than 30 secs, the coolant starts to p1ss out.

Be under no illusion, these are full on RACE motorcross bikes, not greenlaners or enduros. I had road registered mine (you'll need to buy a seperate lighting stator and a different coil & voltage regulator, etc) and the standard exhaust is feckin' loud. As such, several enduros have banned CRF450Rs (doesn't matter what exhaust you have) as they're so loud.

Needless to say, I swapped mine for a mint KTM450EXC then geared this down to it will happily run at walking pace without trying to stall. I went on one of Ady Smith's days yesterday and rode the KTM400EXC which is a great bike (a bit less to handle than the 450). If you're looking for an SM bike, the CRF450R is mental and is ideal for the job, but you'll have to step up the maintenance even more to stock the crank going bang!)

The X version is apparantly just a revised CDI unit (dropping the power a tad), a close ratio g/box and a full lighting kit. The 250X may be worth a test ride. I think you'll find the 250X a lot quicker than your old XR. Not sure how good it will be in SM trim though?

If you want to do enduros, I'd personally recommend the 250X, as being on a monster for 3 hours will have you on your back at the first stop!

my 2p's worth anyway. feel free to drop me a PM if you want to discuss further.

[mel]

ping good idea.

I hadn't realised that the 2004 WR had a button, but I think the 2trac is a no no £8.5K and only 250 in country, only question mark is that I'm shite at keeping them clean and the indestructable honda build quality is a bonus, Yamaha just dont seem to last as well.

[Andy OH]

Mel,

I sold my 2003 XR400R for a 2004 CRF 450R, I had the CRF for a month and I now have a KTM 450 EXC.....the CRF 250X has to be road registered as it doesn't come with a proper lighting kit, I don't know about the maintenance schedule but the CRF 450 was a complete nightmare that needs to be adhered to to make the engine last, remember the 450R is a full on motocross bike.

It also depends on what you will be using the bike for? a friend of mine had a KTM 250 EXC, it was fine off road but struggled on road, he now has a KTM 450 EXC and loves it.

I echo what Fergus said, the KTM 400 EXC is apparently a cracking bike, I would have bouhgt a 400 if I was buying new but I bought a 2003 450 and saved a few quid!

If you are greenlaning and doing the odd enduro then a KTM would be the bike, the futures bright the futures orange

Andy.

[Stig]

Mel - I should add that I've got a DRZ400S which I run in both off road and Supermoto trim (Talon's and SM tyres etc.).

So far, it's fulfilled both rolls admirably. Not so hard core as the CR or WR, but comes road ready and with a few mods, can easily keep up with the more competition oriented models.

Honda build quality is indeed excellent, but I've given the DRZ a right pasting across the Ridgeway since I've had it and it's as good as the day I bought it.

[fergus]

www.dirtrider.com/tests/offroad/141_0405_honda/[/url]
check it...


>> Edited by fergus on Thursday 20th May 14:53

[mel]

I tried the CRF250X last night for a good blast through the local byways (a friend bought one a few weeks ago) and although I was impressed, it wasn't enough to make me buy one. The bike is light, agile, it's easy to ride fast, and the power deliver is pretty instant. However a small point I forgot to mention is I'm 17stone and 6'3", and I found it just wasn't a big enough step up from the XR400 for me and the top end speed for some of the nicer quicker stretches was a bit laking, I found the XR400 actually still had the legs on it once it got going.

Having taken on board what you've said and what I've read/heard elsewhere I still think I need/want a 450 of some sort and I'm just going to have to accept the extra maintenance in order to get the performance. To equate them to road bikes I'd say the XR400=CBR600, the CRF250=GSXR600, and I want a GSXR1000. I'm going to look into a KTM450EXC a bit more but suspect I might hold on and wait for the mythical CRF450X when it arrives, the bit that scares me about the KTM is how tough and durable they are or rather aren't. TVR's of the off road world???? Not really what you want when miles from anywhere. Oh yes I don't race Enduro but I do get pretty hardcore about locations and will often do 3-4 hours and end up a long way from civilisation, even toying with the idea about an Andorra/Pyranees trip.

[fergus]

Mel

Don't let honda & yam, etc dealers put you off with horror stories about KTMs. Ask owners on various bike forums about their experiences. If your bike is properly maintained, why should it breakdown. Ask the guys at Bracken MW for their advice. www.brackenmw.co.uk. (PS I'm 18 stone and 6'5" and had to resrping my CRF450R. The KTM seems OK as is...)

[mel]

Just had a phone call from the local dealer whos just got in a KTM 525EXC Racing with all the "good bits" on it and only been run for about 12 hours described as "immaculate" in dealer speak and he wants £4395, opinions.

[Incorrigible]

My opinion would be "can I have a go ?"

[fergus]

try riding one off road for more than 15 minutes, and unless your balls have their own panniers, you will just fall off. Those badgers take a lot of hanging onto when they let rip. Would make a mental SM bike though!!

[barefoot]

I got involved with CCM Motorcycles with a friend and used to guide on the Rideouts and help out on the Supermoto track days. I have ridden most enduro bikes in one form or another.

The KTM's are all great bikes but can be tempermental. The CRF 450 is an awesome bike but not for enduro's, it can be a pig to start when hot and stalls quite easily on the tricky bits due to such a light flywheel. I now only use mine on the road after gearing it up, it makes a great stunt bike wheelies are its forte!


I recently sold my WRF 450 leccy start as it was very problematic unlike the usual Japenese bikes. I now have a 400 CCM dualsport which is a great all rounder especially on the road. These are not as well built as the Honda's etc but come with a good warranty and are the best all round bike if you want the best of both worlds.


And as for a road bike I have one of these coming....

[mel]

Went and had a look at the KTM 525EXC Racing and it most certainly is as mad as a box of frogs.........................So I bought it, paid by debit card, in the back of the van big run out tomorrow morning starting at the crack of dawn. Will let you know

[mel]

Sorry, a bit slow posting the outcome, but what an awsome bit of kit, its 2Kg heavier than the XR400 but actually feels lighter, the power is out of this world and with standard gearing it will pull over 100mph, the throttle is lightning quick and it really is one hell of an off road tool, I'm not sure how good it will be come the winter when everything starts bogging down and tracks slow down but for the summer it is THE tool to have. The absolute best bit is the WP suspension I was out with a friend whose got a properly sorted YZ426 in enduro trim whose spent a fair few quid getting the suspension done, the KTM simply wiped the floor over the rough stuff it just holds the bike and rider nice and stable while the suspension does its job in comparison the YZ was all ove the place. In short I couldn't be happier with the choice, it is everything I wanted. Apart from the fact that I smashed my toes on a tree stump that is, but i can't blame the bike for that.

So many thanks to those of you that pointed me down the KTM path and to acho the feelings earlier the future truely is orange.

Oh yes and I'm looking into the SM options.

[fergus]

You know it made sense!!

Try and book a day with Ady Smith and his supermoto school, or alternatively, try www.supermotoschool.co.uk, run by Andy Ibbot of Calfornia superbike school fame.

[keith6666]

hi hope some one can help me make up my mind betwee a crf 250x or a crf450x currantly have a drz 400 and want to change want to use for green laning and road ruse ????????????