Recommend me a track tyre that doesn't need tyre warmers
Discussion
Evening all.
I've bought a second set of wheels with discs for my Fireblade, but cannot really commit to a full track day season next year.
The last 2 trackdays I've done have been on M7RRs that I love as a fast road tyre, but on track I seem to be losing out to other fast group riders in the mid corner and especially corner exit areas. At Brands hatch this is especially bad at Paddock Hill, Clearways and massively at Clark curve where short shifting to 4th is the only way not to slide the whole way and still loses a tonne of time to guys you've caught up on slicks/track tyres.
The question is - the bike is staying a road bike for next year, but will do more track days. Which tyre is best for track use but can get away without tyre warmers? i.e. It won't spit you off cold first lap, and won't fall apart with cold tear. For reference, my best lap is 55 secs dead and from video playback I can see slicks would gain me a second or two from McLaren to Start/finish alone.
I've bought a second set of wheels with discs for my Fireblade, but cannot really commit to a full track day season next year.
The last 2 trackdays I've done have been on M7RRs that I love as a fast road tyre, but on track I seem to be losing out to other fast group riders in the mid corner and especially corner exit areas. At Brands hatch this is especially bad at Paddock Hill, Clearways and massively at Clark curve where short shifting to 4th is the only way not to slide the whole way and still loses a tonne of time to guys you've caught up on slicks/track tyres.
The question is - the bike is staying a road bike for next year, but will do more track days. Which tyre is best for track use but can get away without tyre warmers? i.e. It won't spit you off cold first lap, and won't fall apart with cold tear. For reference, my best lap is 55 secs dead and from video playback I can see slicks would gain me a second or two from McLaren to Start/finish alone.
obscene said:
Have you thought about trying a sport touring tyre? Won't have the grip of the M7RR but they are getting better and they work from cold. Metzeler Roadtec 01 worth a look? I'm sure someone can offer more ideas and have more experience than myself.
I'm looking to go the other way - I want the stickiest, most track orientated tyre I can run without needing to use tyre warmers. M7RRs are great from cold, but lack the outright grip and the slight traction issues they have on road when on their side are a real issue on track.Tyres like supercorsas are probably the only real option if you want a grippier tyre.
Honestly though I don’t think you are losing seconds a lap between M7RR’s and Supercorsas. I ran them at a decent fast group pace and never felt the tyres holding me back from days starting at 0 degrees right up to days in the mid 20’s.
Honestly though I don’t think you are losing seconds a lap between M7RR’s and Supercorsas. I ran them at a decent fast group pace and never felt the tyres holding me back from days starting at 0 degrees right up to days in the mid 20’s.
WaferThinHam said:
Supercorsa/Racetec/R11 and go steady for the first lap or two. (more if it's the first session/session after lunch). That said warmers are best to increase tyre life and utilise the maximum number of laps.
This. I've used race compound Supercorsas etc on the road and on trackdays without warmers (I run them at a higher pressure). You need to be wary of the left hand side on lap 2 ish as it typically takes longer to warm up.I've also run a Diablo Rosso Corsa front with an SC2 Supercorsa rear for 'ride to' trackdays which is a nice combo.
Two sets of wheels already though - begs the question why don't put a £400 chinese bodykit on it and send the missus ahead with the stands, warmers and wheels with the silly tyres on them.
I have a trailer and stands and the wheels - I guess it's just not wanting to go for track bodywork as then it'll become a full time track bike and Brands is local to me - I can leg it home early from work and hit a track evening quickly by riding straight there.
I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
3DP said:
I have a trailer and stands and the wheels - I guess it's just not wanting to go for track bodywork as then it'll become a full time track bike and Brands is local to me - I can leg it home early from work and hit a track evening quickly by riding straight there.
I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
It's why I suggested a Chinese replica road kit rather than a GRP race kit as they allow to run head and tail lights and run the standard seat. You look about a million percent less nickable tootling through town than white fibreglass while practicing your 'it only needs a horn and a reflector' speech.I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
Most of your problem M7RR vs track tyres is the rear, you have to have extreme patience getting on the throttle. The sticky road tyres are suprisingly effective on the front for a UK trackday.
Edit - Do a mix and match?. One set of wheels with SC2 type Supercorsas and the other with M7RR or DRC and vary what you use depending on road use / ride to track day or sketchy weather / full sunny track use with time to do the trailer thing.
Edited by moto_traxport on Sunday 29th October 19:51
moto_traxport said:
3DP said:
I have a trailer and stands and the wheels - I guess it's just not wanting to go for track bodywork as then it'll become a full time track bike and Brands is local to me - I can leg it home early from work and hit a track evening quickly by riding straight there.
I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
It's why I suggested a Chinese replica road kit rather than a GRP race kit as they allow to run head and tail lights and run the standard seat. You look about a million percent less nickable tootling through town than white fibreglass while practicing your 'it only needs a horn and a reflector' speech.I'll have a look at the supercorsas - I hate them on the road, but maybe the way forward. The M7RR could not keep up with a slick/supercorsa shod R6s without spinning and had a lower apex speed in clearways and onto straight, so it was most obvious there as the bike is on it's side for about 10 seconds. The 1000's were just romping away so it was left to braking zones to make up time, where tyres don't seem to matter. Probably at a track with more defined straights and corners it wouldn't matter so much.
Most of your problem M7RR vs track tyres is the rear, you have to have extreme patience getting on the throttle. The sticky road tyres are suprisingly effective on the front for a UK trackday.
Front is good as gold to be fair. It's the rear on the power and a general looseness once on its ear and part throttle from apex.
3DP said:
Do the R10s work ok without warmers John?
I have used them in the past without warmers but you have to be careful like you would with the Supercorsa's.I think they warm quickly but again I can't stress enough about getting heat into any tyre before getting on it.
I have found that the Bridgestones suffer less with cold tear than Supercorsa's
Mr_gangrel said:
Supercorsa SP V2 work with just a lap to warm them up, they aren't going to give SC2 grip but you can use them on the road as well in the summer without falling off.
Think you got the answer reading through the comments. I'd also go with this Supercorsa sp range are very good as the next step up from m7rr's
I ran some conti race attack endurance (Google them and read the blurb)
They are similar to supercorsa sp but alot more tread so last much longer on road or track. I think the supercorsa gives the edge on grip and the feel/flex better but the conti endurance never tear and as long as on track you run a low pressure you don't get any naughty slides right upto top end of fast group on most tracks
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