Buying a used CRF 450 - is it madness?
Discussion
So I have been contemplating buying a CRF 250 or 450, but being a weirdo I can see the 450 is only a little more than a 250. More is better right?
I have heard these bikes are super high maintenance and require lots of TLC and maybe the odd piston, liner and head replacing every now and then? Whats the reality?
I was looking at 2008 - 2012 bikes, road legal or not it doesn't really bother me.
I have heard these bikes are super high maintenance and require lots of TLC and maybe the odd piston, liner and head replacing every now and then? Whats the reality?
I was looking at 2008 - 2012 bikes, road legal or not it doesn't really bother me.
graham22 said:
Have you done any/much off roading recently?
Had this conversation yesterday actually, carb 400/450s are cheap for a reason - they're not nice to ride for your average/good clubman competitor.
I have done an extensive ride of my Africa Twin across a gravel drive. Yes, I almost lost it but you know the saying when in doubt... all out! So I stuck mug leg into the gravel and saved the front. Felt kinda like marquez. Had this conversation yesterday actually, carb 400/450s are cheap for a reason - they're not nice to ride for your average/good clubman competitor.
I have owned a 690 SM and but never had a off road bike.
I have the Yam 450. It's 11 years old with about 3000 miles on the clock. Maintenance is quite easy, the only thing I have had to outsource is the valve adjusting.
I'm a fat old knacker and not dead yet. If I had my time again I perhaps would have chosen the 250 as its lighter to pick up. I chose the 450 due to the amount of roadwork needed between the green lanes
This is one area I have good knowledge (Check how many CRF's I've had and raced in my profile)
There are some big differences depending on the model you choose in that date range and you need to be specific that its the CRF R not the CRF X (X being enduro)
My 07 which is near on same as 08 except mapping was the last of the 'old school' 450s running carbs. Bullet proof bike, typical carb power. More of a chugger and quite hard hitting. They have a hot start lever by the clutch and you learn a knack to start these. I think 08 got a steering damper. Pre 06 had weak valves but its older than you are looking at
09 was the first of the new ally frame and efi. It doesnt feel as fast but it is. The efi is more manageable, it starts easier requiring no throttle ever and a efi orange light that tells you fault codes. They ran a single pipe until 13 but the 10,11,12 got longer and quieter each year.
My 12 was one of the best bikes I raced. Last of the springs before air forks, a really good powerful engine without hitting you hard like the carb models and well built. They have a garbage clutch basket...It was the first thing I had to change on all of the efi ones as they went from 6 to I think 4 or 5 spring and they would fade and chew up. A billet of any brand fixes this easy
My son now races a '18 CRF250 and I rode a CRF250 quite a bit between 08-12 too. If you like to point and squirt, a bike that punches hard on track stick with the 450. The 250 especially the Honda due to its unicam is a bit flat and you need to rev it hard to get it going well but its still very capable.
For me in my prime id have run a 450 every day of the week. Now being older, fat and broken Id probably go 250. At 30 I was finding to keep race fit I had to ride the 450 every week to keep fit for a 20 min race otherwise I got bad arm pump 12 mins into a moto
There are some big differences depending on the model you choose in that date range and you need to be specific that its the CRF R not the CRF X (X being enduro)
My 07 which is near on same as 08 except mapping was the last of the 'old school' 450s running carbs. Bullet proof bike, typical carb power. More of a chugger and quite hard hitting. They have a hot start lever by the clutch and you learn a knack to start these. I think 08 got a steering damper. Pre 06 had weak valves but its older than you are looking at
09 was the first of the new ally frame and efi. It doesnt feel as fast but it is. The efi is more manageable, it starts easier requiring no throttle ever and a efi orange light that tells you fault codes. They ran a single pipe until 13 but the 10,11,12 got longer and quieter each year.
My 12 was one of the best bikes I raced. Last of the springs before air forks, a really good powerful engine without hitting you hard like the carb models and well built. They have a garbage clutch basket...It was the first thing I had to change on all of the efi ones as they went from 6 to I think 4 or 5 spring and they would fade and chew up. A billet of any brand fixes this easy
My son now races a '18 CRF250 and I rode a CRF250 quite a bit between 08-12 too. If you like to point and squirt, a bike that punches hard on track stick with the 450. The 250 especially the Honda due to its unicam is a bit flat and you need to rev it hard to get it going well but its still very capable.
For me in my prime id have run a 450 every day of the week. Now being older, fat and broken Id probably go 250. At 30 I was finding to keep race fit I had to ride the 450 every week to keep fit for a 20 min race otherwise I got bad arm pump 12 mins into a moto
Better off with a carbed KTM 300 exc (2 stroke) than a carbed 450 honda.
Honda is way too heavy. KTM is able to do proper enduro without the need for you to have super human strength when lifting the bike back up for the 10th time.
250 4 strokes are good bikes but they do lack in power once you get used to them. This is where the KTM 350 exc-f comes into play, but they aren't cheap.
Honda is way too heavy. KTM is able to do proper enduro without the need for you to have super human strength when lifting the bike back up for the 10th time.
250 4 strokes are good bikes but they do lack in power once you get used to them. This is where the KTM 350 exc-f comes into play, but they aren't cheap.
For what they are, ie a competition of road bike, the CRFs are pretty much the best of the bunch maintenance wise, and whilst pistons "should" be changed at stupid hours, no one does!
I raced mine for three seasons and changed a plug, plenty of oil changes. The CRF is good as the gbox oil is separate, so the contaminated engine oil does not get in there, so Gbox oil (same as engine oil grade wise) lasts ages.
They may not be as cutting edge in endure form as some of the competition, but they won Baja year after year and Kawasaki chucked shed loads at their all singing / dancing machine to finallly beat the Honda...a bike unchanged pretty much for 8 years.
If you get the fueling nice with a decent jet kit and comp airbox mods, (per the manual), they have oodles of power, and quite explosive when you need them to be, but off the bottom end, if you are not cack handed, they are pussy cats.
Having said that, the older 5v Yamaha wr450s were much softer and more linear off the bottom, I have one of them and you can do lap after lap after lap and come in refresehed. The Honda is faster, but a could of laps and you know you've done it!
Any off roader is ace, if you ride it off road. Best fun biking IMHO bar none, you get dirty, beaten up, bruised, knackered, dusty, crash a lot, etc, but it is all lowish speed and the bikes are amazingly robust. I've had a year off them (racing) but cannot wait to get back out there in 2018.
Oh, and the CRFs are brilliant value for money too, compared to the European stuff.
I raced mine for three seasons and changed a plug, plenty of oil changes. The CRF is good as the gbox oil is separate, so the contaminated engine oil does not get in there, so Gbox oil (same as engine oil grade wise) lasts ages.
They may not be as cutting edge in endure form as some of the competition, but they won Baja year after year and Kawasaki chucked shed loads at their all singing / dancing machine to finallly beat the Honda...a bike unchanged pretty much for 8 years.
If you get the fueling nice with a decent jet kit and comp airbox mods, (per the manual), they have oodles of power, and quite explosive when you need them to be, but off the bottom end, if you are not cack handed, they are pussy cats.
Having said that, the older 5v Yamaha wr450s were much softer and more linear off the bottom, I have one of them and you can do lap after lap after lap and come in refresehed. The Honda is faster, but a could of laps and you know you've done it!
Any off roader is ace, if you ride it off road. Best fun biking IMHO bar none, you get dirty, beaten up, bruised, knackered, dusty, crash a lot, etc, but it is all lowish speed and the bikes are amazingly robust. I've had a year off them (racing) but cannot wait to get back out there in 2018.
Oh, and the CRFs are brilliant value for money too, compared to the European stuff.
I did a big trip (nine days I think) across the Sahara, on a 450. I often wanted more power.
On the other hand, I used to have a DT175 two-stroke. About 17bhp, I think, which I played out on on slimy lanes and forests in the UK. I never once felt that I needed any more.
So, it depends. Will you be chasing sunsets across a plane in the Maghreb, or will you be cursing the fact that you can’t modulate the power accurately enough when you are trying to turn around a tree in the oissing rain on a steep slope with a ditch full of water just waiting for you if you get it wrong?
On the other hand, I used to have a DT175 two-stroke. About 17bhp, I think, which I played out on on slimy lanes and forests in the UK. I never once felt that I needed any more.
So, it depends. Will you be chasing sunsets across a plane in the Maghreb, or will you be cursing the fact that you can’t modulate the power accurately enough when you are trying to turn around a tree in the oissing rain on a steep slope with a ditch full of water just waiting for you if you get it wrong?
I've had 250's and 450's for green laning and whilst the 250's are the easier /nicer bikes to ride they won't lift the front end off the throttle like a 450.
Horses for courses really but being able to clear that log with a twist of the wrist is quite handy. Grunt matters.
Ultimately though the most important thing is an electric boot. Stalled halfway up some slippery hill trying to kick start a bike is not a great place to be and being able to push a button after spending 10 minutes trying to haul a bike out of a bog sweating like a pig is worth it's weight in gold.
Horses for courses really but being able to clear that log with a twist of the wrist is quite handy. Grunt matters.
Ultimately though the most important thing is an electric boot. Stalled halfway up some slippery hill trying to kick start a bike is not a great place to be and being able to push a button after spending 10 minutes trying to haul a bike out of a bog sweating like a pig is worth it's weight in gold.
Thanks for this guys... to be honest what I am hearing is that a 250 would be sufficient but as Fleegle says a 450 might be handy getting out to the lanes.
@Birky - I never really appreciated the difference between the 450 X vs R, which sounds obvious now you have mentioned it. I am not racing so need the X or enduro model I guess?
When buying is there anything I need to look out for other than the normal used bike buying checks? Frame cracks, damage or engine/box tale tales signs?
Cheers
@Birky - I never really appreciated the difference between the 450 X vs R, which sounds obvious now you have mentioned it. I am not racing so need the X or enduro model I guess?
When buying is there anything I need to look out for other than the normal used bike buying checks? Frame cracks, damage or engine/box tale tales signs?
Cheers
I had an 04/05 CRF 450R, and fitted a slightly heavier flywheel to it, along with a stator to provide some electrickery, then used it for green laning, but to be honest, as Birky has said, the bottom end punch on the early carb models was too strong for what I was doing. I sold it and moved to a KTM 450 EXC which was more managable for what I was using it for.
I'd first sort out exactly what you want to do, then choose a bike that suits if I were in that position again.
I'd first sort out exactly what you want to do, then choose a bike that suits if I were in that position again.
.Renn Sport said:
Been doing research and Birky's ointers have narrowed down I want a injected bike with the softer lower delivery.
Someone mentioned to me the KTM350 Freeride as a great greenlaner novice bike, which I could have lots of fun on.
I want to be able to lots of wheelies...
That'll be quite different to a 450 Enduro bike!Someone mentioned to me the KTM350 Freeride as a great greenlaner novice bike, which I could have lots of fun on.
I want to be able to lots of wheelies...
The Freerides (and the X-Trainer & X-Trail) are great for, and in demand for Road Trials, because of this they are holding good prices. They are also a little too much 'one trick pony', very soft power (for slower trials sections) and you may soon outgrow one.
If you just want something for green laning, you'll get better value with a 'normal' 250'ish Enduro Bike.
If you want a 450 with a softer bottom end, get a 5v WR450 carb model. Cheap, nice handling, (if a bit tall in its day), soft off the bottom end, but very stall resistant, and a good top end because of the 5v head.
Seriously £1500 to £2k will buy you a nice one and as they are popular, use it a few years and it will always be worth £1k or so.
Seriously £1500 to £2k will buy you a nice one and as they are popular, use it a few years and it will always be worth £1k or so.
poo at Paul's said:
If you want a 450 with a softer bottom end, get a 5v WR450 carb model. Cheap, nice handling, (if a bit tall in its day), soft off the bottom end, but very stall resistant, and a good top end because of the 5v head.
Seriously £1500 to £2k will buy you a nice one and as they are popular, use it a few years and it will always be worth £1k or so.
Is that the Yamaha?Seriously £1500 to £2k will buy you a nice one and as they are popular, use it a few years and it will always be worth £1k or so.
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