Bikes satnav/wireless communications
Discussion
Hi all,
Hoping for some free advice from the experts on here.
I'm planning to do a bit of a tour through Europe in May and decided that I probably need to kit myself up with satnav and bike to bike communications as the wife is also coming on the trip on her own bike.
This is something I've never bothered with before as most of my biking has been day trips in the UK and I have either memorised the route or stuck a piece of paper with a few road numbers onto my petrol tank as a reminder.
For satnav, is a proper motorcycle designed unit really useful? I have a modern satnav built into my fairly new car but often find we are using maps on our phone instead of the car satnav.
Also, I'd quite like to be able to use my phone whilst travelling for listening to music/podcasts/audiobooks, as well as taking the occasional phone call.
So I'm wondering if I could do everything through the phone, including navigation?
But I also need to be able to communicate with my wife who will be following on her own bike.
I did buy some communications kit a few years ago for the two of us. But we gave up on it because it was so complicated to fix speakers and microphone into the helmets and then run wires around the bike, including switches on the handlebars. We installed it all once and found that at any reasonable speed it was really difficult to hear what the other person was saying so we gave up. I'm guessing things have moved on since then and the advent of Bluetooth should have made things much better.
For the satnav I'm quite keen to be able to plot a number of routes on my laptop that I can simply download to the satnav - or my phone if using phone maps is a better option.
Any recommendations or suggestions gratefully received.
Marc
Hoping for some free advice from the experts on here.
I'm planning to do a bit of a tour through Europe in May and decided that I probably need to kit myself up with satnav and bike to bike communications as the wife is also coming on the trip on her own bike.
This is something I've never bothered with before as most of my biking has been day trips in the UK and I have either memorised the route or stuck a piece of paper with a few road numbers onto my petrol tank as a reminder.
For satnav, is a proper motorcycle designed unit really useful? I have a modern satnav built into my fairly new car but often find we are using maps on our phone instead of the car satnav.
Also, I'd quite like to be able to use my phone whilst travelling for listening to music/podcasts/audiobooks, as well as taking the occasional phone call.
So I'm wondering if I could do everything through the phone, including navigation?
But I also need to be able to communicate with my wife who will be following on her own bike.
I did buy some communications kit a few years ago for the two of us. But we gave up on it because it was so complicated to fix speakers and microphone into the helmets and then run wires around the bike, including switches on the handlebars. We installed it all once and found that at any reasonable speed it was really difficult to hear what the other person was saying so we gave up. I'm guessing things have moved on since then and the advent of Bluetooth should have made things much better.
For the satnav I'm quite keen to be able to plot a number of routes on my laptop that I can simply download to the satnav - or my phone if using phone maps is a better option.
Any recommendations or suggestions gratefully received.
Marc
I use Cellularline Interphone Sports which are the best I have used, you can yack away all day on them. Press a button on the side for your phone, works with Siri etc so you can get it to send and receive texts for example. Has radio and music functions. Battery charge seems to last forever. Even on loud sports bikes theyre good for 100 and a spoken conversation.
I've spent a fortune over the years on intercoms and it's only lately they've got any good (I think the Blueant interphone really started the trend in intercoms that weren't cumbersome). I remember all the autocom stuff I had with two way radios - cost a fortune and really was a pain in the arse.
ETA: for satnav I now use my phone in my pocket (with Tom Tom app) and just let it talk to me. This works very well and I don't really miss the screen, although you can sometimes end up taking the wrong turn at complex junctions.
I've spent a fortune over the years on intercoms and it's only lately they've got any good (I think the Blueant interphone really started the trend in intercoms that weren't cumbersome). I remember all the autocom stuff I had with two way radios - cost a fortune and really was a pain in the arse.
ETA: for satnav I now use my phone in my pocket (with Tom Tom app) and just let it talk to me. This works very well and I don't really miss the screen, although you can sometimes end up taking the wrong turn at complex junctions.
Edited by Dog Star on Thursday 22 February 10:07
You don't get much better than the Senna SMH series. 2 options - speakers in the helmets, or earphones. I have a helmet with each, and both have their pros and cons, easiest bring speakers with noise reducing earbuds.
As for phone as the Nav, it's fine. I prefer mounted GPSes so use one on my tourer but have a phone mount for my supermoto etc. Google maps is still the best for navigation. Patience is wearing thin with Garmin and the silly priced map updates, and google maps has better traffic etc. The only issue is finding a decent mount that is waterproof and sits at a good angle.
As for phone as the Nav, it's fine. I prefer mounted GPSes so use one on my tourer but have a phone mount for my supermoto etc. Google maps is still the best for navigation. Patience is wearing thin with Garmin and the silly priced map updates, and google maps has better traffic etc. The only issue is finding a decent mount that is waterproof and sits at a good angle.
I am pleased with the mount and case from these folk:
http://shop.twistyride.com/motorcycle-phone-mounts...
I mount it on the mirror stem of my Tiger Sport, to be perfect it could do with being a little further forward, you can buy a mounting bar to go above the instruments but for my occasional use, and to avoid drilling the body work, I'm happy with what I've got.
http://shop.twistyride.com/motorcycle-phone-mounts...
I mount it on the mirror stem of my Tiger Sport, to be perfect it could do with being a little further forward, you can buy a mounting bar to go above the instruments but for my occasional use, and to avoid drilling the body work, I'm happy with what I've got.
The main difference between car sat navs and bike sat navs is the feature set (and weight).
Bike sat navs, especially TomTom, have a specific bike feature for randomising routes based on requirements - i.e. curvy roads, hills, stay away from motorways etc. randomised route of 100 miles based on the above.
They are designed to pick a route for you so you can follow it. It's for people like us that just can not simply get on a bike and ride + get lost.
If you do not want these features, then download tom go onto your mobile phone - about 50-60£. Just get the right one with the maps of europe etc. and just plan the route yourself. Power from the battery via various cables.
No comment on bike to bike comms.
Bike sat navs, especially TomTom, have a specific bike feature for randomising routes based on requirements - i.e. curvy roads, hills, stay away from motorways etc. randomised route of 100 miles based on the above.
They are designed to pick a route for you so you can follow it. It's for people like us that just can not simply get on a bike and ride + get lost.
If you do not want these features, then download tom go onto your mobile phone - about 50-60£. Just get the right one with the maps of europe etc. and just plan the route yourself. Power from the battery via various cables.
No comment on bike to bike comms.
I use the Scala Rider g9X both for every day commuting and on the Old Gits euro trips. The bike to bike Bluetooth is good for between half a mile and a mile dependent upon terrain etc. (There's nothing quite like the fun of being in front and trying to ride at pace that causes the message "Rider 2 Disconnected" to be said through your speakers!) 
I manage me phone through my GPS but hard wire my music (from a cheap MP3 player in my pocket). The set up silences the music if there is any input from the GPS so that includes phone calls. The rider to rider comms also overrides the music.
It's a good set up and I'm happy with it. We've had as many as 9 riders connected on the Old Gits trip through the relaying option. This was good as we were all in different groups but going the same direction so would link up and drop connection to the other groups as they came into and out of range.
I originally used a car sat nav on the bike (no intercom connection) but purchased a Garmin 660. That lasted almost 5 years (of hard use) before dying and being replaced with a Tomtom Rider 450. Both were excessively expensive compared to the car alternatives but not having to worry about waterproofing and having bike specific powered mounts does make life a whole lot easier. When the Tomtom dies I'll probably end up paying over the odds again for another bike specific unit.
I manage me phone through my GPS but hard wire my music (from a cheap MP3 player in my pocket). The set up silences the music if there is any input from the GPS so that includes phone calls. The rider to rider comms also overrides the music.
It's a good set up and I'm happy with it. We've had as many as 9 riders connected on the Old Gits trip through the relaying option. This was good as we were all in different groups but going the same direction so would link up and drop connection to the other groups as they came into and out of range.
I originally used a car sat nav on the bike (no intercom connection) but purchased a Garmin 660. That lasted almost 5 years (of hard use) before dying and being replaced with a Tomtom Rider 450. Both were excessively expensive compared to the car alternatives but not having to worry about waterproofing and having bike specific powered mounts does make life a whole lot easier. When the Tomtom dies I'll probably end up paying over the odds again for another bike specific unit.
BobSaunders said:
The main difference between car sat navs and bike sat navs is the feature set (and weight).
Bike sat navs, especially TomTom, have a specific bike feature for randomising routes based on requirements - i.e. curvy roads, hills, stay away from motorways etc. randomised route of 100 miles based on the above.
They are designed to pick a route for you so you can follow it. It's for people like us that just can not simply get on a bike and ride + get lost.
If you do not want these features, then download tom go onto your mobile phone - about 50-60£. Just get the right one with the maps of europe etc. and just plan the route yourself. Power from the battery via various cables.
No comment on bike to bike comms.
You also need to check the Tomtom car satnav will both accept input from a bluetooth mic and output to a set of bluetooth speakers. Many of the car models won't!Bike sat navs, especially TomTom, have a specific bike feature for randomising routes based on requirements - i.e. curvy roads, hills, stay away from motorways etc. randomised route of 100 miles based on the above.
They are designed to pick a route for you so you can follow it. It's for people like us that just can not simply get on a bike and ride + get lost.
If you do not want these features, then download tom go onto your mobile phone - about 50-60£. Just get the right one with the maps of europe etc. and just plan the route yourself. Power from the battery via various cables.
No comment on bike to bike comms.
BobSaunders said:
The main difference between car sat navs and bike sat navs is the feature set (and weight).
They are weather proof and work with bike gloves too. I used my car GPS too for a while, and carried a ziplock bag to put over in case of rain. But it was also impossible to operate with gloves while you riding.Still doesn't justify the price differences however.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 February 11:24
I can’t assist with any specific satmav advice but as you also need 1:1 comms this RevZilla video may be of assistance and very timely. It was only posted yesterday and some good advice on 2018 Bluetooth products;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=st-UTq6LvYo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=st-UTq6LvYo
Killboy said:
You don't get much better than the Senna SMH series. 2 options - speakers in the helmets, or earphones. I have a helmet with each, and both have their pros and cons, easiest bring speakers with noise reducing earbuds.
As for phone as the Nav, it's fine. I prefer mounted GPSes so use one on my tourer but have a phone mount for my supermoto etc. Google maps is still the best for navigation. Patience is wearing thin with Garmin and the silly priced map updates, and google maps has better traffic etc. The only issue is finding a decent mount that is waterproof and sits at a good angle.
This is my exact setup and I couldn't rate it enough. My sena is excellent and will last all day easyAs for phone as the Nav, it's fine. I prefer mounted GPSes so use one on my tourer but have a phone mount for my supermoto etc. Google maps is still the best for navigation. Patience is wearing thin with Garmin and the silly priced map updates, and google maps has better traffic etc. The only issue is finding a decent mount that is waterproof and sits at a good angle.
I run a USB on my bike that charges my phone no problem even while running the Google maps nav
Data now being in Europe plus free map offline downloads means win win
As for a phone holder I've tried 3 types. My favourite is a velcro wrap round that goes on the centre of my bars. It's big enough for my phone a simple helmet lock and some loose change... It cost £19.99
I have a garmin and one of our main riders uses a built in garmin on his Duke pikes peak boat... I still think Google is better
I started messing about with iPhone nav apps, but it wasn't great, and other guys with the 'proper' bike sat navs were just planning routes offline and uploading them. I couldn't see the real value in a bike specific unit over a car unit, but when a newish Tom Tom Rider came up second hand I bought it. I'm not going to argue the case of 'worth the extra new' for everyone, but it is certainly a better choice for a bike - waterproof, robust mount but easy to take off when parked, better route planning, route choices etc. In truth most of the time I know where I going so it's not necessary as a sat nav as such, but I keep it on now as it's useful for the GPS speed, speed cameras, reminders of dropping speed limits etc. If I had to buy another, I'm now convinced enough that I'd certainly buy a bike-specific unit, and no problems with my Tom Tom.
But it's the headset that ties it all together - so you need one with 2 bluetooth channels (phone and sat nav) PLUS 2 other comms channels. With just 1 comms channel you can connect to just 1 other bike; with 2 you connect to 2 bikes, but then these bikes connect their second channel to another and so on, so a 2-channel comms gives you whole-group connectivity. If the headset is doing all the clever stuff routing channels, calls and voice then the sat nav just needs to be a sat nav with bluetooth, and the phone just needs to be a phone with bluetooth.
I use a Cardo SHO-1 that I'm astonished with the phone quality (folks wouldn't know you're on a bike - absolutely no background noise), good enough for what the Sat Nav has to say, and playing music is OK...but the radio isn't worth it. I've had it connected to other guys with cardo/scala sets and on the newer models the range is pretty good - feels like over half a mile and beyond line of sight. Only criticism would be the voice recognition can be frustrating sometimes - you say 'call home; and the nice electronic lady is just as likely to repeat 'radio on'. Although the SHO-1 is pitched as 'compatible with Shoei helmets' it's just a marketing scam. There's nothing Shoei specific about it - it just mounts to the base of the helmet and splits the battery pack from the electronics unit on either site so it's pretty discrete and you don't have this big blob on the side of your helmet.
Other makes/models are of course available, but I'd make sure whatever I got was compatible with most cardo/scala systems - other systems are out there too. You never know who you might end up riding with/touring with in the future, and if you subscribe to the 'its good to talk' mantra, then the likelihood (in my experience) is most other folks will be Cardo/Scala based.
But it's the headset that ties it all together - so you need one with 2 bluetooth channels (phone and sat nav) PLUS 2 other comms channels. With just 1 comms channel you can connect to just 1 other bike; with 2 you connect to 2 bikes, but then these bikes connect their second channel to another and so on, so a 2-channel comms gives you whole-group connectivity. If the headset is doing all the clever stuff routing channels, calls and voice then the sat nav just needs to be a sat nav with bluetooth, and the phone just needs to be a phone with bluetooth.
I use a Cardo SHO-1 that I'm astonished with the phone quality (folks wouldn't know you're on a bike - absolutely no background noise), good enough for what the Sat Nav has to say, and playing music is OK...but the radio isn't worth it. I've had it connected to other guys with cardo/scala sets and on the newer models the range is pretty good - feels like over half a mile and beyond line of sight. Only criticism would be the voice recognition can be frustrating sometimes - you say 'call home; and the nice electronic lady is just as likely to repeat 'radio on'. Although the SHO-1 is pitched as 'compatible with Shoei helmets' it's just a marketing scam. There's nothing Shoei specific about it - it just mounts to the base of the helmet and splits the battery pack from the electronics unit on either site so it's pretty discrete and you don't have this big blob on the side of your helmet.
Other makes/models are of course available, but I'd make sure whatever I got was compatible with most cardo/scala systems - other systems are out there too. You never know who you might end up riding with/touring with in the future, and if you subscribe to the 'its good to talk' mantra, then the likelihood (in my experience) is most other folks will be Cardo/Scala based.
Edited by tvrolet on Thursday 22 February 16:46
Sena 10s and a TomTom rider 400. Phone also connected for music/calls etc.
Wouldn't be without it for long trips, you can plan out thousands of miles of routes in advance, listen the radio or endless Spotify playlists, communicate with other riders via intercom, ask Google for directions to a certain place if you've not got the sat nav connected, send text/WhatsApp messages, the list goes on...
Wouldn't be without it for long trips, you can plan out thousands of miles of routes in advance, listen the radio or endless Spotify playlists, communicate with other riders via intercom, ask Google for directions to a certain place if you've not got the sat nav connected, send text/WhatsApp messages, the list goes on...
Dog Star said:
Killboy said:
. The only issue is finding a decent mount that is waterproof and sits at a good angle.
Ultimate addons.
I fitted this for power supply.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MICTUNING-Disconnect-Wate...
I’ve posted this before about the bike specific TomTom Rider units, they had potential but are not without their drawbacks:
I’ve got a car Garmin unit and that has been pretty good, so their bike units might be worth a look
- The glove friendly touchscreen is also rain friendly which is a right pain
- Condensation on the inside of the screen is common
- Many people have Bluetooth audio issues
- It’s slow
- The warnings are generally much poorer than Waze - police cars and cameras are often on Waze but not TomTom.
I’ve got a car Garmin unit and that has been pretty good, so their bike units might be worth a look
Thanks everyone for the replies which are much appreciated.
Latest update is that based on the feedback here I have placed an order for two Sena10S units and a phone holder from ultimate add-ons.
A European trip is scheduled for mid May so we will have a few months to play around with this kit and see how it works. I'll try using my phone mounted to the bike as satnav and see how I get on.
I see that the Sena units come with speakers that fit into a helmet. I'm curious to know how effective these are when wearing earplugs to kill the wind noise.
Is it possible to buy earplugs with speakers in them? Or can you hear the audio from the helmet mounted speakers even with earplugs in?
Latest update is that based on the feedback here I have placed an order for two Sena10S units and a phone holder from ultimate add-ons.
A European trip is scheduled for mid May so we will have a few months to play around with this kit and see how it works. I'll try using my phone mounted to the bike as satnav and see how I get on.
I see that the Sena units come with speakers that fit into a helmet. I'm curious to know how effective these are when wearing earplugs to kill the wind noise.
Is it possible to buy earplugs with speakers in them? Or can you hear the audio from the helmet mounted speakers even with earplugs in?
A993LAD said:
I see that the Sena units come with speakers that fit into a helmet. I'm curious to know how effective these are when wearing earplugs to kill the wind noise.
Is it possible to buy earplugs with speakers in them? Or can you hear the audio from the helmet mounted speakers even with earplugs in?
Any decent intercom system has a volume "boost" that will come in over the top of your earplugs. You can have a conversation on a loud sportsbike on the motorway and it's just like talking in a quiet room. Is it possible to buy earplugs with speakers in them? Or can you hear the audio from the helmet mounted speakers even with earplugs in?
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