Honda RC166

[crankedup]

What are the chances of marques demonstrating a few laps aboard the Honda RC166.
I would love to see this machine being risen around the track, would/could Honda possibly bring it out of retirement again.

[treehack]

I'm fairly sure that Team Obsolete have one and it's demo'd at some of the big classic festivals. I've seen and heard one running a few times, I was stood directly behind it when they fired it up in the pits a t Mallory a few years ago, fk me it's one loud mother.

[Bernd Tost]

Had the good fortune to have seen one twice, the 1st time in 2004 sat on the bank at Rhencullen, that incredible din echoing through Kirkmichael before howling past us - that was when things were a bit more lax at the TT, Charlie Williams was on the same "parade" lap & did something like a 110 on a 350 TZ.. The second occasion we were stood at The Bungalow & almost didn't recognise it, a misfire slowed it's progress up Hailwoods.

Utterly wonderful thing but so much respect for the guys that coaxed the best out of it back in the day.

[AdamIndy]

I saw guy Martin ride one at castle Combe last year. As above, it’s BLOODY loud! The 6 cylinder does sound great!

[tdm34]

The Greatest racing motorcycle ever made in my opinion, but for the FIM changing the rules in 1968 then Honda would have
fielded a 50cc Triple, 125cc Six and 250cc, 350cc and 500cc V8's! for the '68 Season,

The current Honda 1000cc MotoGP bikes are reputed to make 260bhp, The RC166 made around 65BHP with works out to be
the same BHP/Litre! but this was 50 years ago.

All the Japanese teams pushed the boundaries of what was possible at the time, get a copy of Mick Walkers Book
"Japanese Grand Prix Racing Motorcycles" and some of the bikes were utterly astonishing, it Makes Formula Ones much vaunted
"Turbo era" seem tame by comparison.

|https://thumbsnap.com/uat30mkb[/url]



There's the George Beale replica's Here's a few snippets from a very interesting article about how they where done

Then there was the word of god, otherwise known as Stanley Michael Bailey Hailwood. Many years ago Hailwood told Beale that Honda's six-cylinder machines, in particular the RC174, were the best, most dominant bikes he'd ever raced. The RC174 was so fast, Hailwood declared, "I could have won on it with one arm tied behind my back." If re-creating great machines is what turns you on, then no other project could be so challenging.

The Six's crankshaft is pressed up from 13 components, each no bigger than a domino. Unsupported, it is so flimsy it can be deformed by hand, yet it would have to spin without deflecting at more than 17,000 rpm. Pressing it together with the necessary accuracy--0.01 degree--would require an elaborate set of jigs weighing more than the complete bike; if even one part became slightly misaligned, the entire assembly would be scrap. Ludovic Surcin, designer of the jigs, likened the task to balancing 13 billiard balls on top of each other--and persuading them to stay put.

Here's the full article, it's an amazing read, and shows just how advanced Honda where at the time it's worth a read

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/honda-rc174-rc-...

And here's another interesting article about Guy Martin riding one of the Beale Replica RC174's (this is the enlarged 250 built to
compete and dominate the 350cc class interestingly it was only 297cc)

https://www.handh.co.uk/news-videos/hh-classics-gi...

And here's George Beale Warming up one of the Replicas!

http://www.andykershaw.co.uk/ak-and-the-honda-6-it...

Edited by tdm34 on Saturday 18th August 21:49

[chunder27]

Most of the runners are replicas for obvious reasons, I think there is one in Japan that gets used at the Motegoi moving engine days, not sure there are any geniune bikes here. Obselete is the best shot. THey make a ton of noise, but are hard to ride apparently and dont look very fast!!

[tdm34]

chunder27 said:

Most of the runners are replicas for obvious reasons, I think there is one in Japan that gets used at the Motegoi moving engine days, not sure there are any geniune bikes here. Obselete is the best shot. THey make a ton of noise, but are hard to ride apparently and dont look very fast!!

Hailwood hit over 150mph on the IOM TT apparently.

[Fastdruid]

tdm34 said:

And here's another interesting article about Guy Martin riding one of the Beale Replica RC174's (this is the enlarged 250 built to
compete and dominate the 350cc class interestingly it was only 297cc)

https://www.handh.co.uk/news-videos/hh-classics-gi...

Thanks for those.

It's bks that 18k+ wasn't repeated until the 1990's F1s though. In some ways it's *more* astounding because Honda brought out a *production* bike that revved that high. 1986 brought the CBR250 MC14, a jewel of a 16 valve, DOHC inline-4 250 with gear driven cams that revved to 17k, then 1987 brought the MC17, an updated version that revved to 18k, then the '88 CBR250R MC19 and finally the '90-96 CBR250RR that revved to 19k...before being restricted back down to 18k again post '94.

It is why frankly I regard the "modern" CBR250R with such scorn, when the 80's version was making 45ps and had a glorious engine the modern one makes just over half that. Even the very latest CBR250RR doesn't manage to make what it's predecessor made 28 years ago!

[srob]

tdm34 said:

The Greatest racing motorcycle ever made in my opinion, but for the FIM changing the rules in 1968 then Honda would have
fielded a 50cc Triple, 125cc Six and 250cc, 350cc and 500cc V8's! for the '68 Season,

The current Honda 1000cc MotoGP bikes are reputed to make 260bhp, The RC166 made around 65BHP with works out to be
the same BHP/Litre! but this was 50 years ago.

All the Japanese teams pushed the boundaries of what was possible at the time, get a copy of Mick Walkers Book
"Japanese Grand Prix Racing Motorcycles" and some of the bikes were utterly astonishing, it Makes Formula Ones much vaunted
"Turbo era" seem tame by comparison.

|https://thumbsnap.com/uat30mkb[/url]



There's the George Beale replica's Here's a few snippets from a very interesting article about how they where done

Then there was the word of god, otherwise known as Stanley Michael Bailey Hailwood. Many years ago Hailwood told Beale that Honda's six-cylinder machines, in particular the RC174, were the best, most dominant bikes he'd ever raced. The RC174 was so fast, Hailwood declared, "I could have won on it with one arm tied behind my back." If re-creating great machines is what turns you on, then no other project could be so challenging.

The Six's crankshaft is pressed up from 13 components, each no bigger than a domino. Unsupported, it is so flimsy it can be deformed by hand, yet it would have to spin without deflecting at more than 17,000 rpm. Pressing it together with the necessary accuracy--0.01 degree--would require an elaborate set of jigs weighing more than the complete bike; if even one part became slightly misaligned, the entire assembly would be scrap. Ludovic Surcin, designer of the jigs, likened the task to balancing 13 billiard balls on top of each other--and persuading them to stay put.

Here's the full article, it's an amazing read, and shows just how advanced Honda where at the time it's worth a read

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/honda-rc174-rc-...

And here's another interesting article about Guy Martin riding one of the Beale Replica RC174's (this is the enlarged 250 built to
compete and dominate the 350cc class interestingly it was only 297cc)

https://www.handh.co.uk/news-videos/hh-classics-gi...

And here's George Beale Warming up one of the Replicas!

http://www.andykershaw.co.uk/ak-and-the-honda-6-it...

Edited by tdm34 on Saturday 18th August 21:49

And all those Hondas were so massively complicated because they refused to admit defeat and field a two stroke. The only way they could compete was to throw endless money at adding more and more cylinders and gears to keep up with the MZs (yes, before they became joke bikes they pioneered the GP two strokes and were the first to 1000bhp/litre and winning everything until the biggest espionage operation in motorsport history saw Suzuki steal their design!) - and then Suzuki!

If we’re worshipping at the font of over-complicated GP bikes you have to have a look at Guzzi’s V8. If you’ve never had a close up look head to Sammy Miller’s Museum and marvel at the jewel like carburettors

[Tango13]

I read somewhere that one of the Japanese engineers had an inner ear problem that was incompatable with the exhaust note of the RC166, when the bike was being warmed up in the pits at certain revs he lost his balance.

I can't for the life of me remember where I read it so it may not be gospel, it may just be a load of bks but the sight/sound of one engineer blipping the throttle causing another to fall over would be funny to watch

[smifffymoto]

The Hondas really were something special,that said ,I have a soft spot for the MV 500 3.

[tdm34]

srob said:

And all those Hondas were so massively complicated because they refused to admit defeat and field a two stroke. The only way they could compete was to throw endless money at adding more and more cylinders and gears to keep up with the MZs (yes, before they became joke bikes they pioneered the GP two strokes and were the first to 1000bhp/litre and winning everything until the biggest espionage operation in motorsport history saw Suzuki steal their design!) - and then Suzuki!

If we’re worshipping at the font of over-complicated GP bikes you have to have a look at Guzzi’s V8. If you’ve never had a close up look head to Sammy Miller’s Museum and marvel at the jewel like carburettors

I'm aware that Suzuki encouraged Ernst Degner to defect with the designs, but didn't realise that they'd managed 1000bhp/Litre i'd be intrigued to know which one.. Their 125cc race bikes developed 200bhp/litre so about 25bhp, Honda's RC149 125cc 5 cylinder bike developed 30bhp so 240bhp/litre.. And Honda stuck with their 4 Stroke mantra, and basically had to push the boundaries of 4 stroke design to keep ahead of the 2 strokes, it was only when the FIM decided to limit the cylinders/gears in each class that they basically threw in the towel, only to come back in 1979 with the ill fated NR500 which was the subject of much misunderstood derision, its engineering was unbelievable, Honda should have used conventional frame technology instead of trying to push the frame technology at the time as well, they actually produced similar power to the 500cc 2 stroke racers of the time (circa 120-130 bhp) with a conventional frame/wheel size combo they could've been more competitive.

When they realised they had to go to 2 stroke technology then they had tons of experience from their motocross racing and where able to develop the V3 NS500 and ultimately the NSR500, which where so dominant for the next decade.

[crankedup]

Thanks for all the inputs to the thread, I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and knowledge about the bike(s). it’s refreshing to understand that the passage of time has not damaged the machine that is now an icon. Indeed as time passes the Honda(s) take on an almost mystical element, certainly will be admired from any engineering perspective.
My son and myself were at Brands when we heard the almighty exhaust of the Honda six being paraded. Up until that moment my lad always said modern race bikes sounded awesome, his not wrong in that but the Honda sounded dropped his jaw

[crankedup]

tdm34 said:

The Greatest racing motorcycle ever made in my opinion, but for the FIM changing the rules in 1968 then Honda would have
fielded a 50cc Triple, 125cc Six and 250cc, 350cc and 500cc V8's! for the '68 Season,

The current Honda 1000cc MotoGP bikes are reputed to make 260bhp, The RC166 made around 65BHP with works out to be
the same BHP/Litre! but this was 50 years ago.

All the Japanese teams pushed the boundaries of what was possible at the time, get a copy of Mick Walkers Book
"Japanese Grand Prix Racing Motorcycles" and some of the bikes were utterly astonishing, it Makes Formula Ones much vaunted
"Turbo era" seem tame by comparison.

|https://thumbsnap.com/uat30mkb[/url]



There's the George Beale replica's Here's a few snippets from a very interesting article about how they where done

Then there was the word of god, otherwise known as Stanley Michael Bailey Hailwood. Many years ago Hailwood told Beale that Honda's six-cylinder machines, in particular the RC174, were the best, most dominant bikes he'd ever raced. The RC174 was so fast, Hailwood declared, "I could have won on it with one arm tied behind my back." If re-creating great machines is what turns you on, then no other project could be so challenging.

The Six's crankshaft is pressed up from 13 components, each no bigger than a domino. Unsupported, it is so flimsy it can be deformed by hand, yet it would have to spin without deflecting at more than 17,000 rpm. Pressing it together with the necessary accuracy--0.01 degree--would require an elaborate set of jigs weighing more than the complete bike; if even one part became slightly misaligned, the entire assembly would be scrap. Ludovic Surcin, designer of the jigs, likened the task to balancing 13 billiard balls on top of each other--and persuading them to stay put.

Here's the full article, it's an amazing read, and shows just how advanced Honda where at the time it's worth a read

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/honda-rc174-rc-...

And here's another interesting article about Guy Martin riding one of the Beale Replica RC174's (this is the enlarged 250 built to
compete and dominate the 350cc class interestingly it was only 297cc)

https://www.handh.co.uk/news-videos/hh-classics-gi...

And here's George Beale Warming up one of the Replicas!

http://www.andykershaw.co.uk/ak-and-the-honda-6-it...

Edited by tdm34 on Saturday 18th August 21:49

Particular thanks for posting.

[Fastdruid]

crankedup said:

Thanks for all the inputs to the thread, I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and knowledge about the bike(s). it’s refreshing to understand that the passage of time has not damaged the machine that is now an icon. Indeed as time passes the Honda(s) take on an almost mystical element, certainly will be admired from any engineering perspective.
My son and myself were at Brands when we heard the almighty exhaust of the Honda six being paraded. Up until that moment my lad always said modern race bikes sounded awesome, his not wrong in that but the Honda sounded dropped his jaw

Many years ago (2005 IIRC) they had them at the Goodwood festival of speed, I've got some (poor quality) video clips of them but they don't really convey just how great they sound in person.

[pasmith73]

I was standing close to one as it was fired up in the paddock at Goodwood FoS a year or two ago. The noise was immense. A young girl standing close by screamed and ran off in tears, pursued by her parents. I can see remember the look of sheer horror on her face.

[Jazzy Jag]

It broke down right in front of me at the end of Sulby straight last year.

I made an offer for the non runner but I was turned down.

[gareth_r]

Yesrs ago, Honda restored a couple of bikes that had been left exactly as they were when Hailwood last raced them - a six and a four cylinder 500, IIRC.

The bikes had dents hammered in the tanks to clear the clip-ons, leaks fixed with Araldite, marks from where they'd been thrown up the road, all the little mods that had been made during the Grand Prix season... and they removed all that history and turned them into perfectly restored, but sterile, museum pieces. I always thought that was a real shame, and probably (hopefully!) something they wouldn't do today.

[Tango13]

crankedup said:

Thanks for all the inputs to the thread, I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and knowledge about the bike(s). it’s refreshing to understand that the passage of time has not damaged the machine that is now an icon. Indeed as time passes the Honda(s) take on an almost mystical element, certainly will be admired from any engineering perspective.
My son and myself were at Brands when we heard the almighty exhaust of the Honda six being paraded. Up until that moment my lad always said modern race bikes sounded awesome, his not wrong in that but the Honda sounded dropped his jaw

What made it so impressive was that the bike was being paraded on the Isle of Man at the time...

[crankedup]

Tango13 said:

crankedup said:

Thanks for all the inputs to the thread, I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and knowledge about the bike(s). it’s refreshing to understand that the passage of time has not damaged the machine that is now an icon. Indeed as time passes the Honda(s) take on an almost mystical element, certainly will be admired from any engineering perspective.
My son and myself were at Brands when we heard the almighty exhaust of the Honda six being paraded. Up until that moment my lad always said modern race bikes sounded awesome, his not wrong in that but the Honda sounded dropped his jaw

What made it so impressive was that the bike was being paraded on the Isle of Man at the time...

Excellent.
It’s certainly refreshing to read the posts on this thread and realise that this machine is held in such respect and awe, rightly. TBH it’s a tragedy that the British manufacturers had sat back on the laurels of yesteryear whilst the Japanese and Italian manufactures passed and waved us goodbye. Having said that it’s brilliant to see Triumph will be suppling the engines for Moto2.