Discussion
Well, as of yesterday I’m not just an ‘ordinary’ rider like some of you lesser mortals, I’m an ADVANCED rider - it's official 
In all seriousness though, the topic of IAM/ROSPA/Advanced rider schemes does comes up now and again – and even when it doesn’t I guess there are a few considering it and wondering if it’s worth it, and maybe some even who are unaware of the scheme, so here’s my tuppence-worth…
A bit of background – I’ve been riding on the road for 45 years, and started at a time when there was no training; you bought a bike and rode off…and then fell off. And fell off some more until you worked it all out, and then over the years worked out how to stay safe. So I’ve never had any formal training, but always aimed to be a ‘good’ rider and tried to have a good position and ride smoothly. And touch-wood, for the last 40-odd years I’ve managed to keep things the right way up and avoided banging in to stuff.
Unusually perhaps then, I didn’t actually join the RoadSmart thingy to ‘get better’ (since I actually thought I was OK), but I was doing a fair bit of riding/touring in the company of a buddy who is an IAM observer…who doesn’t hang about when not on ‘official business’. To his credit he's never commented once on my riding, nor did he suggest I join up. But I did always feel that he might sitting there thinking ‘jeez, what a dumb line he’s taken there’ or similar so I just wanted to ‘be on the same page’ I guess…plus the challenge of passing.
Up front then – was it worth it? I’d have to say, overall…’yes’. Am I a ‘better’ rider? Difficult to measure; what is ‘better’?...but there are a few situations where I’d say I’m now slightly safer than I might have been before. Am I riding slower then before? Not really (when not under scrutiny); maybe in a few circumstances where I’d be more aware of possible danger, but I’d offset that by saying I’m possibly going in to some corners faster as well.
To be clear though, there is no instruction on how to control the bike – the assumption is you can ride; it’s primarily down to riding more safely. Given that the outcome is then to achieve a particular ‘safe’ level of making progress, then different riders will benefit to a greater or lesser extent. Folks who have been riding safely for years will probably just pick up some hints and tips round the periphery; newer (or wilder) riders may have to do a lot of re-learning.
For the government at least, it seems safety usually goes hand in hand with going slower, and in fairness during all the observed rides and the test itself exceeding the speed limit is strictly verboten. And that’s understandable – like it or not, speed limits are part of the law and any organisation promoting law-breaking wouldn’t get very far. But it doesn’t mean, say, riding 20% slower everywhere. In a 60 limit at a point where you’d normally be doing 80…sadly you’re stuck at 60. But maybe there’s a series of bends where you might drop to 50, they might encourage a better line so you could get through them at 60. But for sure on the ‘official’ rides you won’t be riding as fast as you might otherwise do, but what you then do in your own time is up to you.
A lot of the things you might consider would be frowned upon aren’t – such as filtering, getting to the head of a traffic queue, taking bends/roundabouts straight, overtaking etc…only they are encouraged to be done safely.
Despite my initial quip, I certainly saw no ‘we’re better than you’ type of attitude, but like any organisation run essentially by volunteers and on a one-to-one basis you’re going to get good guys and not so good guys. The chap I had as an observer was good and not at all preachy, but I can understand you might get some others who aren’t so great. And with my observer he was happy to discuss points of view, and in a couple of cases I did get him to agree my positioning/actions were actually correct despite his initial assessment; I’d seen/anticipated stuff he hadn’t from behind.
However, the bike cop I had on the test was absolutely superb. And if I’m honest I got as much really good advice from him (as well as the make/colour of the unmarked bike in the area
) in a ½ hour de-brief as I got from all of the observed runs. I’ve a whole new respect for the competence of these guys – they’re not just regular riders on a white bike with blue lights. It was also interesting that he disagreed with some of the advice the IAM give; and interestingly enough the same stuff I disagreed with. I’d love to have spent more time riding with the police rider, but these guys are giving up their time too and so not surprisingly the scheme relies on volunteer IAM Observers.
I’d certainly recommend it as something to do. Experienced riders aren’t going to learn a huge amount, but there’s enough new stuff to think about to make it worthwhile I think; and maybe that is indeed the benefit – to actually stop to think about things that have long since been consigned to auto-pilot. I think those that would benefit most though will be for the intermediates who might just avoid learning through the school of hard knocks.
In all seriousness though, the topic of IAM/ROSPA/Advanced rider schemes does comes up now and again – and even when it doesn’t I guess there are a few considering it and wondering if it’s worth it, and maybe some even who are unaware of the scheme, so here’s my tuppence-worth…
A bit of background – I’ve been riding on the road for 45 years, and started at a time when there was no training; you bought a bike and rode off…and then fell off. And fell off some more until you worked it all out, and then over the years worked out how to stay safe. So I’ve never had any formal training, but always aimed to be a ‘good’ rider and tried to have a good position and ride smoothly. And touch-wood, for the last 40-odd years I’ve managed to keep things the right way up and avoided banging in to stuff.
Unusually perhaps then, I didn’t actually join the RoadSmart thingy to ‘get better’ (since I actually thought I was OK), but I was doing a fair bit of riding/touring in the company of a buddy who is an IAM observer…who doesn’t hang about when not on ‘official business’. To his credit he's never commented once on my riding, nor did he suggest I join up. But I did always feel that he might sitting there thinking ‘jeez, what a dumb line he’s taken there’ or similar so I just wanted to ‘be on the same page’ I guess…plus the challenge of passing.
Up front then – was it worth it? I’d have to say, overall…’yes’. Am I a ‘better’ rider? Difficult to measure; what is ‘better’?...but there are a few situations where I’d say I’m now slightly safer than I might have been before. Am I riding slower then before? Not really (when not under scrutiny); maybe in a few circumstances where I’d be more aware of possible danger, but I’d offset that by saying I’m possibly going in to some corners faster as well.
To be clear though, there is no instruction on how to control the bike – the assumption is you can ride; it’s primarily down to riding more safely. Given that the outcome is then to achieve a particular ‘safe’ level of making progress, then different riders will benefit to a greater or lesser extent. Folks who have been riding safely for years will probably just pick up some hints and tips round the periphery; newer (or wilder) riders may have to do a lot of re-learning.
For the government at least, it seems safety usually goes hand in hand with going slower, and in fairness during all the observed rides and the test itself exceeding the speed limit is strictly verboten. And that’s understandable – like it or not, speed limits are part of the law and any organisation promoting law-breaking wouldn’t get very far. But it doesn’t mean, say, riding 20% slower everywhere. In a 60 limit at a point where you’d normally be doing 80…sadly you’re stuck at 60. But maybe there’s a series of bends where you might drop to 50, they might encourage a better line so you could get through them at 60. But for sure on the ‘official’ rides you won’t be riding as fast as you might otherwise do, but what you then do in your own time is up to you.
A lot of the things you might consider would be frowned upon aren’t – such as filtering, getting to the head of a traffic queue, taking bends/roundabouts straight, overtaking etc…only they are encouraged to be done safely.
Despite my initial quip, I certainly saw no ‘we’re better than you’ type of attitude, but like any organisation run essentially by volunteers and on a one-to-one basis you’re going to get good guys and not so good guys. The chap I had as an observer was good and not at all preachy, but I can understand you might get some others who aren’t so great. And with my observer he was happy to discuss points of view, and in a couple of cases I did get him to agree my positioning/actions were actually correct despite his initial assessment; I’d seen/anticipated stuff he hadn’t from behind.
However, the bike cop I had on the test was absolutely superb. And if I’m honest I got as much really good advice from him (as well as the make/colour of the unmarked bike in the area
) in a ½ hour de-brief as I got from all of the observed runs. I’ve a whole new respect for the competence of these guys – they’re not just regular riders on a white bike with blue lights. It was also interesting that he disagreed with some of the advice the IAM give; and interestingly enough the same stuff I disagreed with. I’d love to have spent more time riding with the police rider, but these guys are giving up their time too and so not surprisingly the scheme relies on volunteer IAM Observers.I’d certainly recommend it as something to do. Experienced riders aren’t going to learn a huge amount, but there’s enough new stuff to think about to make it worthwhile I think; and maybe that is indeed the benefit – to actually stop to think about things that have long since been consigned to auto-pilot. I think those that would benefit most though will be for the intermediates who might just avoid learning through the school of hard knocks.
Congratulations and great write up.
I've done about half a dozen observed rides so far. The only bit I don't like is the strict speed limit adherence but you're absolutely right in what you write. It's not like you get told what to do or b
ked or anything like that, it's just pointed out that you'll not pass your test doing an overtake that culminated in an 80 mph corner entry speed at the end of the straight. I am finding that I'm riding overall more quickly, certainly more confidently and I'm not exposing myself to as much risk at the same time.
The track skills day was an unexpected bonus. A chance to find out what happens to your bike at the extremes which makes, for example, an emergency stop a piece of piss. I'm not sure where building up more and more speed through church helps me on my commute but there's logic in there somewhere was it was a lot of fun.
I've done about half a dozen observed rides so far. The only bit I don't like is the strict speed limit adherence but you're absolutely right in what you write. It's not like you get told what to do or b
ked or anything like that, it's just pointed out that you'll not pass your test doing an overtake that culminated in an 80 mph corner entry speed at the end of the straight. I am finding that I'm riding overall more quickly, certainly more confidently and I'm not exposing myself to as much risk at the same time.The track skills day was an unexpected bonus. A chance to find out what happens to your bike at the extremes which makes, for example, an emergency stop a piece of piss. I'm not sure where building up more and more speed through church helps me on my commute but there's logic in there somewhere was it was a lot of fun.
Congratulations on the pass and thanks for the excellent write up. Does that mean you're now going to observe all the Old Gits in Italy next year?
I've always found that riding with plod (and ex-plod) bikers is a real education, ever time. They can cover the ground quickly, smoothly and safely in a way the rest of us can only dream about.
I've always found that riding with plod (and ex-plod) bikers is a real education, ever time. They can cover the ground quickly, smoothly and safely in a way the rest of us can only dream about.
Having said the police rider's comments were useful, let me put this one on the table. This is something the IAM Observers hadn’t picked me up on, and that’s going to be a hard habit for me to break, but when he explained it, it actually made perfect sense.
Coming up to a roundabout with clear(ish) traffic I’d look to the right to make sure it was clear, look again as I got closer, and then again just as I crossed the while line. What he said was that I had to learn to trust my eyes and judgement – I shouldn’t need that second and third look! He must have seen my jaw drop at that point, but his explanation was to imagine the first glance right is a snapshot photograph. Imagine the second glance right is another snapshot photograph. Now, looking at 2 separate 'still' photographs how are you going to be able to accurately judge speed, direction and intention?
OK. Point taken…
Instead take ONE longer look to allow you to fully read the situation and on that basis determine if you are going to enter the roundabout or slow or stop.
So I’m with it so far…
But his next point was if you’ve properly evaluated the situation with the ‘longer’ look, then what’s the point taking your eyes off where you’re going as you cross the line to look again. Don’t you trust your eyes and judgement of the situation? If you read it right it ‘must’ be safe so a second look serves no purpose apart from taking your eyes off where you're going. And if you have badly judged it, at the point you enter the roundabout is too late to do much about being t-boned anyway; you're looking but you can't now change the outcome. Fair point. Of course the timing of that one long look is important (for me, probably about the time of my second glance), but it will be challenging to stop doing all these little glances.
So, an interesting perspective - and no doubt correct (as he was also a police bike trainer and an accident investigator). But in line with quite a lot of the IAM’s advice not to do things that might seem ‘right’ or safe but actually have no value (like indicating when there’s no one to see it).
Coming up to a roundabout with clear(ish) traffic I’d look to the right to make sure it was clear, look again as I got closer, and then again just as I crossed the while line. What he said was that I had to learn to trust my eyes and judgement – I shouldn’t need that second and third look! He must have seen my jaw drop at that point, but his explanation was to imagine the first glance right is a snapshot photograph. Imagine the second glance right is another snapshot photograph. Now, looking at 2 separate 'still' photographs how are you going to be able to accurately judge speed, direction and intention?
OK. Point taken…
Instead take ONE longer look to allow you to fully read the situation and on that basis determine if you are going to enter the roundabout or slow or stop.
So I’m with it so far…
But his next point was if you’ve properly evaluated the situation with the ‘longer’ look, then what’s the point taking your eyes off where you’re going as you cross the line to look again. Don’t you trust your eyes and judgement of the situation? If you read it right it ‘must’ be safe so a second look serves no purpose apart from taking your eyes off where you're going. And if you have badly judged it, at the point you enter the roundabout is too late to do much about being t-boned anyway; you're looking but you can't now change the outcome. Fair point. Of course the timing of that one long look is important (for me, probably about the time of my second glance), but it will be challenging to stop doing all these little glances.
So, an interesting perspective - and no doubt correct (as he was also a police bike trainer and an accident investigator). But in line with quite a lot of the IAM’s advice not to do things that might seem ‘right’ or safe but actually have no value (like indicating when there’s no one to see it).
I started IAM but never completed it as I couldn't dedicate the Saturday mornings that often.
I did have two issues with the course:
The fact they always like you to progress. I do like to pootle around from time to time. If a car in front of me is going slower I don't feel the need to always overtake.
The cost. The upfront cost and "contribution to instructor petrol" . £10 is not a contribution it is almost 2/3 tank of fuel on a lot of bikes. This makes is a very expensive course.
I would have like to complete it but hours need to be more flexible.
I did have two issues with the course:
The fact they always like you to progress. I do like to pootle around from time to time. If a car in front of me is going slower I don't feel the need to always overtake.
The cost. The upfront cost and "contribution to instructor petrol" . £10 is not a contribution it is almost 2/3 tank of fuel on a lot of bikes. This makes is a very expensive course.
I would have like to complete it but hours need to be more flexible.
Good on you OP.
Massively underrated and unappreciated organisation.
Passed both my car and also motorcycle IAM and RoSPA at 18.
Never display badges nor am I part on any local group - as do not want to bring the organisations into disrepute ie do not hang about in NSLs or on motorways but am a stickler in 20/30/40/50/etc. In fact after I had completed the official part of my IAM Motorcycle test the examiner wanted me to demonstrate how I rode in NSLs by saying, assume the acronym means No Speed Limit zones. This comment is one that has always stayed with me and demonstrated that they are not all fuddy-duddys.
They taught me life and observational skills that without a doubt have helped me over the last 30 years of riding/driving. Ironically, I cover 25-30K miles/annum and have never had an accident with another roaduser or points. ( May
have fallen off a motorcycle, a couple of times, due to my own incompetency 
)
Some sports bike riders would be shocked how quick, but more importantly smooth, IAM/ROSPA boys are on their tourers.
Massively underrated and unappreciated organisation.
Passed both my car and also motorcycle IAM and RoSPA at 18.
Never display badges nor am I part on any local group - as do not want to bring the organisations into disrepute ie do not hang about in NSLs or on motorways but am a stickler in 20/30/40/50/etc. In fact after I had completed the official part of my IAM Motorcycle test the examiner wanted me to demonstrate how I rode in NSLs by saying, assume the acronym means No Speed Limit zones. This comment is one that has always stayed with me and demonstrated that they are not all fuddy-duddys.
They taught me life and observational skills that without a doubt have helped me over the last 30 years of riding/driving. Ironically, I cover 25-30K miles/annum and have never had an accident with another roaduser or points. ( May
have fallen off a motorcycle, a couple of times, due to my own incompetency )Some sports bike riders would be shocked how quick, but more importantly smooth, IAM/ROSPA boys are on their tourers.
kennydies said:
I started IAM but never completed it as I couldn't dedicate the Saturday mornings that often.
I did have two issues with the course:
The fact they always like you to progress. I do like to pootle around from time to time. If a car in front of me is going slower I don't feel the need to always overtake.
The cost. The upfront cost and "contribution to instructor petrol" . £10 is not a contribution it is almost 2/3 tank of fuel on a lot of bikes. This makes is a very expensive course.
I would have like to complete it but hours need to be more flexible.
Really? You think it's expensive? It's not just the petrol but the tyres (often more expensive per mile than petrol) the chain & sprockets, the servicing and the general depreciation due to mileage. (Who wants to buy a high mileage ie over 10,000 miles, second hand bike??) Remember to include the miles from the observers home to you, and then back again. If (s)he wasn't observing you they wouldn't have done that journey. It will be extremely likely that £10 gets no where near covering the observers cost so (s)he is already subsidising you, and you want more?I did have two issues with the course:
The fact they always like you to progress. I do like to pootle around from time to time. If a car in front of me is going slower I don't feel the need to always overtake.
The cost. The upfront cost and "contribution to instructor petrol" . £10 is not a contribution it is almost 2/3 tank of fuel on a lot of bikes. This makes is a very expensive course.
I would have like to complete it but hours need to be more flexible.
tvrolet said:
Instead take ONE longer look to allow you to fully read the situation and on that basis determine if you are going to enter the roundabout or slow or stop.
So I’m with it so far…
But his next point was if you’ve properly evaluated the situation with the ‘longer’ look, then what’s the point taking your eyes off where you’re going as you cross the line to look again. Don’t you trust your eyes and judgement of the situation? If you read it right it ‘must’ be safe so a second look serves no purpose apart from taking your eyes off where you're going. And if you have badly judged it, at the point you enter the roundabout is too late to do much about being t-boned anyway; you're looking but you can't now change the outcome. Fair point. Of course the timing of that one long look is important (for me, probably about the time of my second glance), but it will be challenging to stop doing all these little glances.
As a new rider altogether, when I started IAM Training, one night I asked my observer if we could do roundabouts - I was like a nearly headless chicken with far too many looks and life savers etc...So I’m with it so far…
But his next point was if you’ve properly evaluated the situation with the ‘longer’ look, then what’s the point taking your eyes off where you’re going as you cross the line to look again. Don’t you trust your eyes and judgement of the situation? If you read it right it ‘must’ be safe so a second look serves no purpose apart from taking your eyes off where you're going. And if you have badly judged it, at the point you enter the roundabout is too late to do much about being t-boned anyway; you're looking but you can't now change the outcome. Fair point. Of course the timing of that one long look is important (for me, probably about the time of my second glance), but it will be challenging to stop doing all these little glances.
One full night and working on almost exactly this method, had totally transformed how I negotiate roundabouts. As you/he said - if you've judged it safe as you are about to cross the line, no point looking again - focus on a brisk entry and what's ahead. There is nothing to be gained by looking as you cross the line. It was unnerving at first but it really made me focus on making observations count rather than doing multiple.
Funnily enough, the Observer that night was ex-police...!
The other tip was where visibility is restricted or it's busy at a roundabout, slow RIGHT down on entry, slow enough to let other cars clear before you get to the white line if you can - if it's a roundabout where you don't have the visibility across it, keep slow until you are ready to commit. Avoids any rapid and undignified stops as something appears but you're going a bit too fast.
kennydies said:
The cost. The upfront cost and "contribution to instructor petrol" . £10 is not a contribution it is almost 2/3 tank of fuel on a lot of bikes. This makes is a very expensive course.
'Very expensive' - having a highly trained observer with you for 3 hours for a tenner? We must have a different view on expensive. They are doing it for nothing. I'm doing it to help keep me safer and by extension, alive. As far as I'm concerned cost barely factors into it.
I did my IAM test probably 15 years ago. It is worth doing, but some of the groups can be full of BMW riding beardos. I and others left the Manchester group as a result and wouldn't go back near them.
On my test, I was encouraged to treat NSL limits as derestricted so you could go as fast as you wished. I've also done a couple of days with the police who have had the same relaxed attitude to speed which is refreshing. If the police in your area offer observed rides/days out, do that rather than the IAM would be my advice. You'll learn so much more. I understand ROSPA is better than the IAM.
On my test, I was encouraged to treat NSL limits as derestricted so you could go as fast as you wished. I've also done a couple of days with the police who have had the same relaxed attitude to speed which is refreshing. If the police in your area offer observed rides/days out, do that rather than the IAM would be my advice. You'll learn so much more. I understand ROSPA is better than the IAM.
Excellent post
I've just had my 2nd observed ride today. I feel safer, more confident and I think its brilliant that a volunteer would take time to help me improve how I ride. Without this organisation I would be expected just to find my way...My observer gets £12 each time he takes me out (and I buy him a coffee and a nice cake).
I paid £135 to join IAM (discount codes online which save £15) and on passing the course Cumbria county council will refund me £100. To me it appears to be a bargain......
Was surprised when I was told to go quicker, and the 30 minute review after each ride is brilliant.
I get scored in my book each session and this week I need to be quicker out of junctions and respect 20mph limits.......
If you get chance definitely do it, it will make a difference....Lancashire County Council are also giving money....
I've just had my 2nd observed ride today. I feel safer, more confident and I think its brilliant that a volunteer would take time to help me improve how I ride. Without this organisation I would be expected just to find my way...My observer gets £12 each time he takes me out (and I buy him a coffee and a nice cake).
I paid £135 to join IAM (discount codes online which save £15) and on passing the course Cumbria county council will refund me £100. To me it appears to be a bargain......
Was surprised when I was told to go quicker, and the 30 minute review after each ride is brilliant.
I get scored in my book each session and this week I need to be quicker out of junctions and respect 20mph limits.......
If you get chance definitely do it, it will make a difference....Lancashire County Council are also giving money....
SMar said:
If you live in the Thames Valley area (TVAM), the observers don't expect anything for petrol.
+1 - I struggle to get my Observer to accept a brew when we stop off at loomies!Three observed rides in, Mrs also doing the same. She's had a mixed experience with Observers so far, but we'd both agree it's made us a little more aware and a bit more focussed on maintaining progress rather than bungee-ing from one corner exit to the next entry via the straights . . .
Certainly worth it from a financial perspective, and I'm taking off the rough edges with every ride. Less convinved on the the "group" get togethers, but we'll see as time goes by.
Dr Jekyll said:
black-k1 said:
(Who wants to buy a high mileage ie over 10,000 miles, second hand bike??)
10,000 miles? high mileage? really?Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff