Discussion
I'm thinking of getting carbon wheels as part of my 'upgrading' of my RC51. Part of the reason being that it's a heavy beast to begin with, and I'm not doing much to save weight elsewhere so might as well do it here.
Couple of questions. Is any brand much better than another, e.g. Dymag vs BST etc.?
And I do have a good bike shop down the road, but they are pretty old school (both a good and a bad thing possibly), so how much care is needed to change tires, and any special equipment?
Also does anyone know if they will fit a 15yr old bike?
Couple of questions. Is any brand much better than another, e.g. Dymag vs BST etc.?
And I do have a good bike shop down the road, but they are pretty old school (both a good and a bad thing possibly), so how much care is needed to change tires, and any special equipment?
Also does anyone know if they will fit a 15yr old bike?
What evidence are all these carbon wheel failures based on or is it just internet hearsay ?
Ive been running them over 5 years on a 300kg cruiser. The OE aluminium front wheel buckled twice from potholes. Imagine 2 up there is nearly 1/2 ton total weight inc bike when it hits a big bump and each time the front had buckled enough for MOT failure and needed straightening.
I decided to upgrade to something stronger i.e. BST carbon and they have been fantastic since. Done about 20k road miles, perhaps 25% of that 2 up. Saved over 10kg in unsprung weight (with 8.5" wide rear theres plenty to save) and made the turn in so much lighter.
There is an FAQ here with weight ratings etc for the wheels. BST offer different wheels for race or street use, the race wheels are even lighter, hence no need to rate them for 400kg heavy road bike use when they are going on a 200kg race bike.
http://blackstonetek.com/bst-best-carbon-fiber-whe...
Ive been running them over 5 years on a 300kg cruiser. The OE aluminium front wheel buckled twice from potholes. Imagine 2 up there is nearly 1/2 ton total weight inc bike when it hits a big bump and each time the front had buckled enough for MOT failure and needed straightening.
I decided to upgrade to something stronger i.e. BST carbon and they have been fantastic since. Done about 20k road miles, perhaps 25% of that 2 up. Saved over 10kg in unsprung weight (with 8.5" wide rear theres plenty to save) and made the turn in so much lighter.
There is an FAQ here with weight ratings etc for the wheels. BST offer different wheels for race or street use, the race wheels are even lighter, hence no need to rate them for 400kg heavy road bike use when they are going on a 200kg race bike.
http://blackstonetek.com/bst-best-carbon-fiber-whe...
I’ve ran BST Carbon wheels on multiple bikes over the last 10 years, used on both road and track without a single issue.
They meet and exceed any required safety standard, it seems like everyone has an opinion on how they are weak as piss and may shatter at any moment, but that is simply not the case.
I’ve never ran Dymag, but have seen two sets that have had quite severe discolouration, perhaps from UV light. That would make me think twice.
Benefits are obvious, but in real terms they improve acceleration, braking,
(very noticeable) and make the bike more agile and easier to turn...every time you ride it, not just at ten tenths on a track day.
Downsides: obviously cost, although I would maintain they are the cost effective modification you can make considering the benefits. also, the far lower mass can make them follow cambers and road imperfections more than standard wheels.
With regard to changing tyres, you would wan’t to take it to someone you trust due to the value of the wheels, in the same way you would with magnesium wheels or similar. I’ve never had one issue.
They meet and exceed any required safety standard, it seems like everyone has an opinion on how they are weak as piss and may shatter at any moment, but that is simply not the case.
I’ve never ran Dymag, but have seen two sets that have had quite severe discolouration, perhaps from UV light. That would make me think twice.
Benefits are obvious, but in real terms they improve acceleration, braking,
(very noticeable) and make the bike more agile and easier to turn...every time you ride it, not just at ten tenths on a track day.
Downsides: obviously cost, although I would maintain they are the cost effective modification you can make considering the benefits. also, the far lower mass can make them follow cambers and road imperfections more than standard wheels.
With regard to changing tyres, you would wan’t to take it to someone you trust due to the value of the wheels, in the same way you would with magnesium wheels or similar. I’ve never had one issue.
graylag said:
Strength and longevity. They are very light, but also not designed to cope with much beyond billiard smooth racetracks. When / if they fail it it’s likely to be fairly spectacular, rather than a dent in the rim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF0v-b9v3xw/\ An OZ Magnesium wheel on a 'billiard smooth racetrack'
Back in 1981 McLaren unveiled their Cosworth powered MP4/1, outwardly a conventional looking race car but the 'tub' was made from carbon fibre up to 0.4" / 10.16mm thick in places.
Some people predicted the 'tub' would shatter to dust in the event of a crash.
McLarens' No2 driver, Andrea de Cesaris managed 18 shunts that season and John Watson had a massive crash at Monza...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZ_eU8rHWU
As an engineer I'd take a carbon wheel over a Magnesium one every time.
Used to work for the UK distributor for Dymag (on the bike side) and occasionally sold BST's to retail customers.
Had remarkably few failures on our new supply wheels, none were catastrophic (i.e wheel collapse) and most had a cause (crash / kerb impact etc) on either magnesium or carbon (or combination of the two - e,g, mag centre with carbon rim).
Dymag often struggled with the final finish as (at the time) they had environmental concerns about their next door neighbours showering them with silicone & other stuff - I had a fair few mates buy heavily discounted 'cloudy finish' wheels! This was more than a dozen years ago and they've since been reborn financially and possibly relocated I think.
The first Dymag carbon wheels had 3 massive box section spokes (ideal for the properties of carbon fibre) but now they have to design them with skinny spokes similar to the metal ones so they look prettier - oh the irony.
Our main competition in the UK was Graham Harwood importing the BST wheels and selling them through HPS (Harwood Performance Services). In the early days at trade shows he would carry a wheel around and bounce it off floor (carpet tiles over concrete) and catch it when it rebounded up 2 feet for the doubters - always made me smile and their finish was always lovely, although I'd obviously not see their 'seconds'.
As mentioned above people seem quick to have kittens about using carbon wheels away from a racetrack (ironically a million tyre changes) but when they fail they crack and split like a piece of wood wheras mag wheels break more like a china cup. I go to watch my mate race in the CRMC championship and twice now I've seen dejected racers wander back from the tyre fitters clutching a foot of rim in one hand the rest of the wheel in the other - eeek!
Incidentally, Steve, who was the voice of Dymag for many years, now has his own company refurbing and X-raying the older mag wheels.
http://tpcs-magnesium-refurbs.co.uk/
Not sure what you about really old carbon ones? Check carefully and if it holds pressure off we go?? Ancient GP bikes with mag frames hello the x-ray & use carefully, the early ones using carbon fibre frames are display only I think.
Had remarkably few failures on our new supply wheels, none were catastrophic (i.e wheel collapse) and most had a cause (crash / kerb impact etc) on either magnesium or carbon (or combination of the two - e,g, mag centre with carbon rim).
Dymag often struggled with the final finish as (at the time) they had environmental concerns about their next door neighbours showering them with silicone & other stuff - I had a fair few mates buy heavily discounted 'cloudy finish' wheels! This was more than a dozen years ago and they've since been reborn financially and possibly relocated I think.
The first Dymag carbon wheels had 3 massive box section spokes (ideal for the properties of carbon fibre) but now they have to design them with skinny spokes similar to the metal ones so they look prettier - oh the irony.
Our main competition in the UK was Graham Harwood importing the BST wheels and selling them through HPS (Harwood Performance Services). In the early days at trade shows he would carry a wheel around and bounce it off floor (carpet tiles over concrete) and catch it when it rebounded up 2 feet for the doubters - always made me smile and their finish was always lovely, although I'd obviously not see their 'seconds'.
As mentioned above people seem quick to have kittens about using carbon wheels away from a racetrack (ironically a million tyre changes) but when they fail they crack and split like a piece of wood wheras mag wheels break more like a china cup. I go to watch my mate race in the CRMC championship and twice now I've seen dejected racers wander back from the tyre fitters clutching a foot of rim in one hand the rest of the wheel in the other - eeek!
Incidentally, Steve, who was the voice of Dymag for many years, now has his own company refurbing and X-raying the older mag wheels.
http://tpcs-magnesium-refurbs.co.uk/
Not sure what you about really old carbon ones? Check carefully and if it holds pressure off we go?? Ancient GP bikes with mag frames hello the x-ray & use carefully, the early ones using carbon fibre frames are display only I think.
So even after a ton of googling, I can't find much to split BST, Dymag, and Rotobox.
I think the Rotobox look the best made, but I don't like the super thick spokes. It looks like Dymag had a lot of production issues a few years ago, but 44Teeth recommended them pretty strongly because of the size/width of the rim edge for tire changes.
And BST seem to be the middle ground, but the inside of the rim looks a mess (unlike Rotobox), not that it matters once a tire is on.
I think the Rotobox look the best made, but I don't like the super thick spokes. It looks like Dymag had a lot of production issues a few years ago, but 44Teeth recommended them pretty strongly because of the size/width of the rim edge for tire changes.
And BST seem to be the middle ground, but the inside of the rim looks a mess (unlike Rotobox), not that it matters once a tire is on.
Don't have carbon wheels myself but know of several who do without any bother but I would say you need to be extra careful on tyre changing.
From what I've heard, if I was going that way I'd be looking at BST.
Interesting read on a Ducati forum regarding the structure/integrity of a BST wheel here; https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/bst-wheel-au...
From what I've heard, if I was going that way I'd be looking at BST.
Interesting read on a Ducati forum regarding the structure/integrity of a BST wheel here; https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/bst-wheel-au...
catso said:
Don't have carbon wheels myself but know of several who do without any bother but I would say you need to be extra careful on tyre changing.
From what I've heard, if I was going that way I'd be looking at BST.
Interesting read on a Ducati forum regarding the structure/integrity of a BST wheel here; https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/bst-wheel-au...
Wow, that guy really knows his stuff! OK, BST it is.From what I've heard, if I was going that way I'd be looking at BST.
Interesting read on a Ducati forum regarding the structure/integrity of a BST wheel here; https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/bst-wheel-au...
graylag said:
Strength and longevity. They are very light, but also not designed to cope with much beyond billiard smooth racetracks. When / if they fail it it’s likely to be fairly spectacular, rather than a dent in the rim.
I think your sources need updating sir.... I could have said "complete bo!!ocks" but you get the gist
r1flyguy1 said:
Bob_Defly said:
So even after a ton of googling, I can't find much to split BST, Dymag, and Rotobox..
Rotobox look completely s
t aesthetically in my honest opinion, but thats just me each to their own. I have BST’s on mine and love them 
Absolutely no help to you i know
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff