Worst depreciating bike I've owned - CB1100RS
Discussion
Back in the mists of time I seem to recall depreciation on new bikes wasn't a major issue.
Even as recently as 2014 I traded in my 2011 S1000RR for a new 1199 and got virtually what I paid for it. But the Panigale was the first new bike I've had where I experienced car like levels of depreciation - almost £6 grand in nearly three years and I thought that was bad until...…
Last week tried to trade in the lightly used 2017 CB1100RS for a new Fireblade SP. CB1100RS was about £11,300 list when new in July 2017.
Trade in price £6,250. So the bike has dropped over £5 grand in a year and a half !! I'm really shocked by that and of course I wont sell it now (and I wont buy a new CBR1000RR SP).
More generally, could this increase in depreciation be as a result of the recent craze for PCP's, meaning there are lots more bikes around now, and its often cheaper for people to buy new rather than a one, two or three year old bike?
Interested to hear what other people think. It seems to me that the sensible money is in buying something 5 - 10 years old where the depreciation seems negligible.
Even as recently as 2014 I traded in my 2011 S1000RR for a new 1199 and got virtually what I paid for it. But the Panigale was the first new bike I've had where I experienced car like levels of depreciation - almost £6 grand in nearly three years and I thought that was bad until...…
Last week tried to trade in the lightly used 2017 CB1100RS for a new Fireblade SP. CB1100RS was about £11,300 list when new in July 2017.
Trade in price £6,250. So the bike has dropped over £5 grand in a year and a half !! I'm really shocked by that and of course I wont sell it now (and I wont buy a new CBR1000RR SP).
More generally, could this increase in depreciation be as a result of the recent craze for PCP's, meaning there are lots more bikes around now, and its often cheaper for people to buy new rather than a one, two or three year old bike?
Interested to hear what other people think. It seems to me that the sensible money is in buying something 5 - 10 years old where the depreciation seems negligible.
Depreciation has been hidden by the rising prices from the recession. Things seem to have levelled off over the last couple of years.
Though £6.5k for your bike sounds like a piss take. Unless the list price was nowhere close to what it was worth new.
Though £6.5k for your bike sounds like a piss take. Unless the list price was nowhere close to what it was worth new.
Edited by Donbot on Monday 14th January 10:42
£6.5k is a piss take. Might be because there are quite a few RS's on the market just now, albeit around the £9k mark. This is where PCP is going to affect the second hand market. Flurries of a particular model coming to the market at the same time. Should be the same when Africa Twins start coming back from PCP owners.
Did you pay list price for it or some discounted figure as the real depreciation figure is is purchase price - offer not list price - offer .... did anyone pay list for these ?
They are also quite a niche bike so unlikley a dealer wants stuck with one in the showroom when a quick google says you can get one for 3k in and 99 a month for a new one with a 10500 RRP ... and thats before they negotiate ...
They are also quite a niche bike so unlikley a dealer wants stuck with one in the showroom when a quick google says you can get one for 3k in and 99 a month for a new one with a 10500 RRP ... and thats before they negotiate ...
I had a 2014 blade from new on 0% PCP. Price was about £11k (£1k or so off list with ABS).
I looked at trading it in against a cross tourer 2 yrs later and 4k miles later, and was offered £7k. So £1 per mile. Gulp
I suspected it would fetch £8k privately. I ran it for another 1k miles to take the sting out of it a little more, then sold it privately for exactly what i thought - £8k.
So £3k over 2 yrs.
Annoyingly if i'd kept it another 2 yrs it would have still been a £7k bike privately.
On the flip side, i just sold my trusty old VFR800 for £1300. Owned it for 3.5 yrs and 12k miles. Paid £1400 for it. 1 set of tyres, 3 oil changes, 1 set of clutch plates. So on balance not too bad overall!!
I looked at trading it in against a cross tourer 2 yrs later and 4k miles later, and was offered £7k. So £1 per mile. Gulp
I suspected it would fetch £8k privately. I ran it for another 1k miles to take the sting out of it a little more, then sold it privately for exactly what i thought - £8k.
So £3k over 2 yrs.
Annoyingly if i'd kept it another 2 yrs it would have still been a £7k bike privately.
On the flip side, i just sold my trusty old VFR800 for £1300. Owned it for 3.5 yrs and 12k miles. Paid £1400 for it. 1 set of tyres, 3 oil changes, 1 set of clutch plates. So on balance not too bad overall!!
There is a 2017 GSX S1000 with 2k miles on for sale at a main dealer near me for £7k.
£10k list price.
Its been for sale since the autumn.
Low £6k does sound like a piss take at first look but the CB1100 is a bit marmite and hasn't had great press reviews so it might not be too far off what the garage thinks it can easily shift it for.
£10k list price.
Its been for sale since the autumn.
Low £6k does sound like a piss take at first look but the CB1100 is a bit marmite and hasn't had great press reviews so it might not be too far off what the garage thinks it can easily shift it for.
I think the bike itself may have some part to play in the hefty depreciation, there has been a lot of movement in the 'retro' space lately that and the fact that large discounts from new often exist (as above) and you can get a new bike on a lower interest rate for £120 (or similar) a month is all going to add up to bikes not holding value like they used to.
I managed to get my bike for £7250, retail was around £8800 because it was pre-registered by the dealer (0 miles)
One thing we are seeing though is that as sport bike prices are getting £20k older versions do seem to hold value as they seem like better value when a new model is so expensive.
I managed to get my bike for £7250, retail was around £8800 because it was pre-registered by the dealer (0 miles)
One thing we are seeing though is that as sport bike prices are getting £20k older versions do seem to hold value as they seem like better value when a new model is so expensive.
Rick1.8t said:
I think the bike itself may have some part to play in the hefty depreciation, there has been a lot of movement in the 'retro' space lately that and the fact that large discounts from new often exist (as above) and you can get a new bike on a lower interest rate for £120 (or similar) a month is all going to add up to bikes not holding value like they used to.
Yes, this is definitely a factor. I don't normally end up taking too much of a hit at trade in time, but a notable exception was when I came to sell my 2006 black Ducati Sport 1000 mono in 2009. These were massively unpopular at the time (a really hideous handling bike with a weird shape swinging arm, and only one rear shock but mounted conventionally on one side) and I let it go for £3500. They are now hugely sought after and people are asking £10k ish for them now! kick buttowski said:
More generally, could this increase in depreciation be as a result of the recent craze for PCP's, meaning there are lots more bikes around now, and its often cheaper for people to buy new rather than a one, two or three year old bike?
I take it you've seen the Africa Twin thread on here? As said, some Honda dealers were offering deals on PCP that led to huge savings you could not have gotten elsewhere. I think I paid about £3,000 less than people who bought the same bike on the same day. If you paid full price for your bike, and jammy
s like me were paying that, then there's a big chunk of your depreciation accounted for.TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Andybow said:
As retail prices get higher so does the dreaded VAT which people tend not to think of.
You loose VAT as soon as you purchase the bike so already that’s a fair amount
Now you’ve gone and done it’s.You loose VAT as soon as you purchase the bike so already that’s a fair amount
ks.The bike is worth what is worth second hand.
Eg. Normal bike
Bike retail new £10000
Bike at retail a year old, £7995
Bike trade in a year old £6500
'Special'
Bike retail new £10000, but is limited edition which sells quickly
Bike retail 2 years later £11995
Bike trade in after 2 years. £10500
Where does VAT come into it at all? It's just supply and demand.
None of us complain when buying new bikes with £2k off list, on interest free deals, but its all built into the price somewhere. If they give big discounts on them (remember the bargain Africa Twin deals) then its never going to be good for used residuals.
Combine the discounting with the proliferation of new bikes being sold on PCP rental deals, few people want to pay higher interest on a few year old bike when they can get a new one low interest and payments...and its always the new one with the deal on, thats what they need to sell.
Thankfully bikes are not quite as bad as new cars......yet
Combine the discounting with the proliferation of new bikes being sold on PCP rental deals, few people want to pay higher interest on a few year old bike when they can get a new one low interest and payments...and its always the new one with the deal on, thats what they need to sell.
Thankfully bikes are not quite as bad as new cars......yet
I’ve got one of the earliest CB1100RS (bought it as soon as they were launched) on PCP so it’ll be interesting to see where I sit when the deal is up in around 18 months time. Advantage of PCP is that if it’s too far the wrong way I can just hand the keys back-I quite fancy a CB1000R next but also like the RS a lot. How the figures stack up will probably dictate whether I stick or twist...
Pwig said:
This VAT thing is a load of bks.
The bike is worth what is worth second hand.
Eg. Normal bike
Bike retail new £10000
Bike at retail a year old, £7995
Bike trade in a year old £6500
'Special'
Bike retail new £10000, but is limited edition which sells quickly
Bike retail 2 years later £11995
Bike trade in after 2 years. £10500
Where does VAT come into it at all? It's just supply and demand.
Eh?ks.The bike is worth what is worth second hand.
Eg. Normal bike
Bike retail new £10000
Bike at retail a year old, £7995
Bike trade in a year old £6500
'Special'
Bike retail new £10000, but is limited edition which sells quickly
Bike retail 2 years later £11995
Bike trade in after 2 years. £10500
Where does VAT come into it at all? It's just supply and demand.
Every single bike has VAT added , the dealer has to pay 20% vat so do we.
If you go and buy a brand new bike and try trading next day you will loose VAT plus any depreciation
To the op a clean 3000 miler should be More like 7200? How many miles service history is it due a service on time alone (annual ) are tyres misshapen or plugged at rear chain well maintained any damage at all, colour?
Finally did you pay list or not and are you at list on the blade sp? remember at the moment there is at least 2k off the blade from Honda ?
what's the deal?
Finally did you pay list or not and are you at list on the blade sp? remember at the moment there is at least 2k off the blade from Honda ?
what's the deal?
Andybow said:
Eh?
Every single bike has VAT added , the dealer has to pay 20% vat so do we.
If you go and buy a brand new bike and try trading next day you will loose VAT plus any depreciation
So explain how some bikes sell for more than their new price?Every single bike has VAT added , the dealer has to pay 20% vat so do we.
If you go and buy a brand new bike and try trading next day you will loose VAT plus any depreciation
VAT has no relevance to the used market. The market decides what is worth. They don't have a fixed devaluation.
You MIGHT lose 20% trading a day old bike. You MIGHT lose even more if its a unpopular model. You MIGHT not lose anything... Limited edition Ducatis etc will not drop by that much. Its not related to VAT.
Andybow said:
Eh?
Every single bike has VAT added , the dealer has to pay 20% vat so do we.
If you go and buy a brand new bike and try trading next day you will loose VAT plus any depreciation
No, the dealer being VAT registered effectively is a tax collector for HMRC. He doesn't pay the VAT on the purchase price, he passes on the VAT you have paid. His profit is a different matter again.Every single bike has VAT added , the dealer has to pay 20% vat so do we.
If you go and buy a brand new bike and try trading next day you will loose VAT plus any depreciation
The used price has nothing to do with VAT, unless we are talking about company vehicles, for which the VAT hasn't been paid.
It's just supply and demand, pure and simple, i.e. what is the market prepared to pay for a used bike, given the availability and demand.
kick buttowski said:
Back in the mists of time I seem to recall depreciation on new bikes wasn't a major issue.
Even as recently as 2014 I traded in my 2011 S1000RR for a new 1199 and got virtually what I paid for it. But the Panigale was the first new bike I've had where I experienced car like levels of depreciation - almost £6 grand in nearly three years and I thought that was bad until...…
Last week tried to trade in the lightly used 2017 CB1100RS for a new Fireblade SP. CB1100RS was about £11,300 list when new in July 2017.
Trade in price £6,250. So the bike has dropped over £5 grand in a year and a half !! I'm really shocked by that and of course I wont sell it now (and I wont buy a new CBR1000RR SP).
More generally, could this increase in depreciation be as a result of the recent craze for PCP's, meaning there are lots more bikes around now, and its often cheaper for people to buy new rather than a one, two or three year old bike?
Interested to hear what other people think. It seems to me that the sensible money is in buying something 5 - 10 years old where the depreciation seems negligible.
I guess you've tried more than one dealer? And what is the cost to trade up? Even as recently as 2014 I traded in my 2011 S1000RR for a new 1199 and got virtually what I paid for it. But the Panigale was the first new bike I've had where I experienced car like levels of depreciation - almost £6 grand in nearly three years and I thought that was bad until...…
Last week tried to trade in the lightly used 2017 CB1100RS for a new Fireblade SP. CB1100RS was about £11,300 list when new in July 2017.
Trade in price £6,250. So the bike has dropped over £5 grand in a year and a half !! I'm really shocked by that and of course I wont sell it now (and I wont buy a new CBR1000RR SP).
More generally, could this increase in depreciation be as a result of the recent craze for PCP's, meaning there are lots more bikes around now, and its often cheaper for people to buy new rather than a one, two or three year old bike?
Interested to hear what other people think. It seems to me that the sensible money is in buying something 5 - 10 years old where the depreciation seems negligible.
I had 3 different dealers offering me a px value, this differed from £11k to £12.2k. The bike I was buying also differed in price, so the lowest PX may not necessary be he worst option.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff