K1600B - Can I reject it?

[keasden]

Long story short, bought a used K1600 Bagger in Feb, just over 12 months old and 2000 miles from a BMW dealer (not local to me). Bike was great for 600 miles until April when it started misfiring and running like a bag o crap. Took it to local BMW dealer who took a week to diagnose and fix a faulty ignition coil. All under warranty so not the end of the world. Not long after getting it back however I was checking the oil and the dipstick was dry! I added 1/2 litre and checked again next day, still barely registered on the dipstick. This kept occurring and i topped it up prior to a tour round Scotland last week. During the trip I got the oil warning light and it was dry once again. During that trip I added a further 1.75 litres over 1000 miles and booked it in to my local dealer on return.

Took it in yesterday and they tell me its low on oil. No st sherlock! They also say can't find a leak and no issues on diagnostics. They are keeping the bike and contacting BMW for advice. I've added 4.75 litres of oil in the past 2 months / 1600 miles. My concern is where is this oil going (My riding mates say definitely not blowing smoke) and what damage is it causing the engine, if not immediately then long term. I've had the bike 4 months and done 2600 miles, and when its working well I love it. I emailed the supplying dealer to inform him of all this and that I am rejecting the bike. Any advice?

[Rubin215]

Well, you have already rejected it so, as long as the email is worded correctly, you should be fine.

The issue now will be what is a reasonable deduction for how long you have had the bike and how much use you have had.

You stand more chance of getting a reasonable amount back if you transfer the value to another bike from the same dealer than if you ask for a straight refund.

Make sure all your issues have been documented with a timeline of what happened when and how much it has cost you, the inconvenience caused etc. just in case it gets ugly.

[keasden]

Rubin215 said:

Well, you have already rejected it so, as long as the email is worded correctly, you should be fine.

The issue now will be what is a reasonable deduction for how long you have had the bike and how much use you have had.

You stand more chance of getting a reasonable amount back if you transfer the value to another bike from the same dealer than if you ask for a straight refund.

Make sure all your issues have been documented with a timeline of what happened when and how much it has cost you, the inconvenience caused etc. just in case it gets ugly.

Yes I thought getting another bike from them may be the best answer but to be honest its totally put me off BMW's and thats all they stock. The bike is not back with them, its at my local dealer as I bought it from one 200 miles away. I won't be doing that again either!

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

I think that you need to return the bike to the selling dealer in order to reject it properly, not just another BMW franchise.

If the oil isn't leaking then it can only be burning it.

[keasden]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

I think that you need to return the bike to the selling dealer in order to reject it properly, not just another BMW franchise.

If the oil isn't leaking then it can only be burning it.

Yes I appreciate that, but at the moment its at the local dealer and I'm not using it, Ive got to figure out how to get it to the supplying dealer and whether it is safe to ride there.

[Esceptico]

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...

I think you have to reject it within 30 days and that is long gone.

It is under warranty so they have to fix it.

If they can’t fix it they should reimburse you but can deduct money for the use you have had and drop in value.

[Krikkit]

keasden said:

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

I think that you need to return the bike to the selling dealer in order to reject it properly, not just another BMW franchise.

If the oil isn't leaking then it can only be burning it.

Yes I appreciate that, but at the moment its at the local dealer and I'm not using it, Ive got to figure out how to get it to the supplying dealer and whether it is safe to ride there.

Why wouldn't it be safe? Top the oil off and ride it

[ChocolateFrog]

Don't they have to be given the opportunity to fix it before you can go down the rejection route.

That much oil consumption is hugely excessive, if it's not leaking out and it's not smokey on start up then it must be getting passed the rings.

Would be interesting to know why the previous owner traded it in.

[NNH]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The catalytic converter may be stopping it for now, but that much oil won't be doing it any good.

[itcaptainslow]

There should be a guideline from BMW what an acceptable usage level is, either in the handbook or at least in a technical publication accessible by the dealer. You need to find out what that level is (usually something like 1 litre every 1000 miles) and then ask the dealer how they’d like to measure this, and what they will do when/if the bike falls below the acceptable tolerance.

[keasden]

Just to update this, the supplying dealer have been good so far about my request to reject the bike and we are in discussions but I have agreed that my local dealer can carry out the tests requested by BMW which is 500 miles road test to measure the oil consumption over that period. I won't be letting them forget however that its just somehow used 4.5 litres over the last 1600 miles.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

I'd be concerned by the fact of how many times its been run almost dry of oil. That can't have done the engine any good at all.

[keasden]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've bloody loved every minute of it apart from the oil issue and the worry about the subsequent effect on the engine. I toured Scotland last week with some pals. 350 miles on the first day and when I got off I felt as though I could turn around and ride straight back home again, no aches or pains and super comfortable. It also gets loads of attention wherever its parked which may not be every ones cup of tea but I like to talk about my bikes so it suits me.

Biggest problem I have now that I'm looking to return it is what to replace it with as I can't think of anything that I'd rather have but the reliability and potential out of warranty costs scares me to death.

[itcaptainslow]

Would you be happy with another K1600...?

[keasden]

itcaptainslow said:

Would you be happy with another K1600...?

To be honest, no not after this experience, nor any other BMW for that matter.

[itcaptainslow]

Worth looking at something like a new Goldwing?

To be fair I think BMW would be well within their rights to e.g. replace the engine under warranty or offer you an exchange bike, so you might have to brace yourself for that.

[keasden]

itcaptainslow said:

Worth looking at something like a new Goldwing?

To be fair I think BMW would be well within their rights to e.g. replace the engine under warranty or offer you an exchange bike, so you might have to brace yourself for that.

The new Goldwing (not the Tourer) would be ideal but no used ones on the market yet and so well out of my price league.

I wouldn't accept a new engine. In doing that it proves it was not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality, both grounds for rejection under Sales of Goods Act. Its not like I've been unreasonable either, Ive already had one repair to the engine that kept it off the road a week and I am allowing them to do a 500 mile road test on it now, so hopefully it will all remain amicable. Whatever happens I will never own a BMW bike outside of warranty!

[Unbusy]

Maybe a parrot for me, I thought you were going to use it for the 500 mile test. But it’s them doing those miles? Are you not irked at them using your bike for that sort of distance? I would be.

[keasden]

Unbusy said:

Maybe a parrot for me, I thought you were going to use it for the 500 mile test. But it’s them doing those miles? Are you not irked at them using your bike for that sort of distance? I would be.

Well I guess they have to do it to satisfy BMW that there is an issue. I already provided details of the amount of oil I've put in over the past 1600 miles, 4.75 litres. They are not just accepting that and BMW want a lengthy oil consumption test so I guess I have no choice in the matter. If for any reason they determine there is no problem (!) a discussion will have to be had about the form of compensation for the 500 miles added to my low mileage bike!

[itcaptainslow]

keasden said:

itcaptainslow said:

Worth looking at something like a new Goldwing?

To be fair I think BMW would be well within their rights to e.g. replace the engine under warranty or offer you an exchange bike, so you might have to brace yourself for that.

The new Goldwing (not the Tourer) would be ideal but no used ones on the market yet and so well out of my price league.

I wouldn't accept a new engine. In doing that it proves it was not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality, both grounds for rejection under Sales of Goods Act. Its not like I've been unreasonable either, Ive already had one repair to the engine that kept it off the road a week and I am allowing them to do a 500 mile road test on it now, so hopefully it will all remain amicable. Whatever happens I will never own a BMW bike outside of warranty!

Sure-but that’s also what a warranty is for. If you were here on a second engine which was also having problems, maybe-but I think you might be in for a struggle being the first time around, unfortunately.

Not saying I agree or disagree, just trying to be realistic and give my view bearing in mind my experience in the motor trade.

Re the method of oil consumption test-sounds pretty standard practise and similar to the method I’ve seen other manufacturers and dealers deploy, although we used to tell the customer to drive the car and come back after 250 then 500 miles. Didn’t want the liability of them running the engine dry of oil then blaming us!