Newb assistance - dare I ask!
Discussion
Newb alert so apologies in advance.
Summertime has come around once again and for the umteenth year in a row my gut has been telling me to get a bike.
I'm 31 and have been a car guy for most of my life, having a period of off road use on a semi auto honda CRF xhongxching thing way back in my teens.
A selection of friends have bikes, ranging from a GSXR 600, a Ninja to another with a BMW R1200R and I just long for the sense of freedom you just don't seem to get in a metal box with windows.
I bit the bullet and completed my CBT (which I thoroughly enjoyed bar the figure of 8...) and have theory booked for the end of the month (July)
I'm not looking to commute on it as I need my car for my job. I've never been a speed demon or a track racer and I'm not looking at challenging myself on how fast I can hit a corner. Im looking to enjoy ride outs after work or weekends and meeting new people.
I've fallen in love with the 2018 CB650R Neo Cafe.
But here is my dilemma. It's the age old question.
Most of my friends are saying to do the DAS, get an old SV650 or Hornet and progress to a newer bike in time.
Others are saying get a 125 for a few months, DAS then get a bigger bike.
To me, buying a 125 for a few months seems financially pointless, but I'd gain on road experience.
On the other hand, I rent a unit on an industrial estate and some friends have said buy an SV/etc and practise on the estate. They even offered to stick some cones out to practice for my mod manuvures.
Is an SV or Hornet going to be the pole to my human flag with my legs waving in the wind?
Am I doing it the right way having come from absolutely sod all experience?
Suggestions for other bikes I can think about without ripping my legs from my torso on the slightest twitch of throttle.
Im genuinely intrigued by what way the more seasoned bikers have to say about it.
Thanks
Summertime has come around once again and for the umteenth year in a row my gut has been telling me to get a bike.
I'm 31 and have been a car guy for most of my life, having a period of off road use on a semi auto honda CRF xhongxching thing way back in my teens.
A selection of friends have bikes, ranging from a GSXR 600, a Ninja to another with a BMW R1200R and I just long for the sense of freedom you just don't seem to get in a metal box with windows.
I bit the bullet and completed my CBT (which I thoroughly enjoyed bar the figure of 8...) and have theory booked for the end of the month (July)
I'm not looking to commute on it as I need my car for my job. I've never been a speed demon or a track racer and I'm not looking at challenging myself on how fast I can hit a corner. Im looking to enjoy ride outs after work or weekends and meeting new people.
I've fallen in love with the 2018 CB650R Neo Cafe.
But here is my dilemma. It's the age old question.
Most of my friends are saying to do the DAS, get an old SV650 or Hornet and progress to a newer bike in time.
Others are saying get a 125 for a few months, DAS then get a bigger bike.
To me, buying a 125 for a few months seems financially pointless, but I'd gain on road experience.
On the other hand, I rent a unit on an industrial estate and some friends have said buy an SV/etc and practise on the estate. They even offered to stick some cones out to practice for my mod manuvures.
Is an SV or Hornet going to be the pole to my human flag with my legs waving in the wind?
Am I doing it the right way having come from absolutely sod all experience?
Suggestions for other bikes I can think about without ripping my legs from my torso on the slightest twitch of throttle.
Im genuinely intrigued by what way the more seasoned bikers have to say about it.
Thanks
Morning
If you are doing Direct Access and straight onto an unrestricted licence, skip the 125 thing completely and get on something with some go that isn't too raw, the SV / Fazer / Hornet / Monster all good bikes and you can easily run one for 12-18 months, look after it and get a decent amount of your money back, then when more confident move onto something more powerful if you want and that could be a sportsbike, motard or tourer, that would be my route ...
I personally went:
Year 1 - VFR400
Years 2 & 3 - CBR600FX
Year 4 - Bought a 996 I still have and then owned a mixture of Monsters and Multistradas for day to day duties.
If you are doing Direct Access and straight onto an unrestricted licence, skip the 125 thing completely and get on something with some go that isn't too raw, the SV / Fazer / Hornet / Monster all good bikes and you can easily run one for 12-18 months, look after it and get a decent amount of your money back, then when more confident move onto something more powerful if you want and that could be a sportsbike, motard or tourer, that would be my route ...
I personally went:
Year 1 - VFR400
Years 2 & 3 - CBR600FX
Year 4 - Bought a 996 I still have and then owned a mixture of Monsters and Multistradas for day to day duties.
Given your age I would skip the 125 route, do you DAS and then get any sort of 600-ish bike you fancy, ride that for a bit and you will soon get an idea of what bikes you like longer term.
Riding is awesome, just get it done and then enjoy it.
also consider further training once you get your license, IAM, I2I, Rapid Training etc
Riding is awesome, just get it done and then enjoy it.
also consider further training once you get your license, IAM, I2I, Rapid Training etc
Do DAS, skip the 125cc and get whatever bike you fancy. If you're anything like me you'll only ride occasionally (and to a fraction of it's capability) so you may as well have the bike you really want and you'll still own it, as a pristine low mileage example, in 10+ years time. Get the one you've fallen in love with, you'll not be happy with anything else.
I've not ridden the CB650R but I've ridden a multitude of 600's and what is arguably its predecessor, the CB600F Hornet.
I would personally get an SV650 over it as a first bike. It easier to ride slowly, more forgiving and at the same time quicker at slower speeds because it makes its torque low down. It's got plenty enough power to be fun but not so much it is intimidating.
Plus its cheap and with loads sold (for good reasons) the spares (either new or s/h) are cheap and plentiful.
Same tbh goes for the ER6 and even to a lesser extent the old CB500 and similar (which while slow I actually preferred to the Hornet!)
I would personally get an SV650 over it as a first bike. It easier to ride slowly, more forgiving and at the same time quicker at slower speeds because it makes its torque low down. It's got plenty enough power to be fun but not so much it is intimidating.
Plus its cheap and with loads sold (for good reasons) the spares (either new or s/h) are cheap and plentiful.
Same tbh goes for the ER6 and even to a lesser extent the old CB500 and similar (which while slow I actually preferred to the Hornet!)
Phud said:
Your money, your bike.
Do what you want, you control the throttle so if you can trust yourself all's good.
I've had friends go straight from the test to 1000cc sports bike and be fine, I've seen folks damage themselves crashing scooters, its down to you and how you ride.
That's true to an extent, but I remember as a middle-aged newbie to biking after passing my test you start riding and make mistakes - a fluffed gear change or suddenly releasing the clutch at the wrong time can have bigger reaction on a more powerful bike. Hell, i managed to accidentally wheelie a Monster M600 which only has about 40hp when my fingers slipped off the clutch. If I'd been on a full-fat sports bike I'm pretty certain I'd have been off the back.Do what you want, you control the throttle so if you can trust yourself all's good.
I've had friends go straight from the test to 1000cc sports bike and be fine, I've seen folks damage themselves crashing scooters, its down to you and how you ride.
I did my license year and a half ago.. spent 6 months on a CBT and a 125 which I used for commuting and Sunday rides. Don't regret doing that 1 bit as it tought me a lot. You wont lose money on a 125 for a few months unless you buy new. (edit: I'm 29 FYR - not that it makes a difference)
If I was to do it again though, and if I didnt use my bike for commuting I would just do DAS straight away and join an advanced riding group like ROSPA or IAM.
Good "starter bikes":
- SV650
- ER6
- Hornet
- Yamaha XJ6 - my current bike which I got after my 125. Its been brilliant and never missed a beat, have put just over 16k miles on it since I've got it incluiding commuting and longer trips abroad and in the UK.
I would not buy new as a first bike though - you will have little mishaps, even at 0mph. Or maybe you wont! Who knows.. but it will hurt you a lot less if its a used bike.
No reason you can't jump on a 1000cc + bike either. At the end of the day its you that controls the speed with the throttle.
Good luck! And let us know what you go for
PS: don't expect to have any money left over, this biking thing is bloody addictive and you WILL spend most your cash on it
If I was to do it again though, and if I didnt use my bike for commuting I would just do DAS straight away and join an advanced riding group like ROSPA or IAM.
Good "starter bikes":
- SV650
- ER6
- Hornet
- Yamaha XJ6 - my current bike which I got after my 125. Its been brilliant and never missed a beat, have put just over 16k miles on it since I've got it incluiding commuting and longer trips abroad and in the UK.
I would not buy new as a first bike though - you will have little mishaps, even at 0mph. Or maybe you wont! Who knows.. but it will hurt you a lot less if its a used bike.
No reason you can't jump on a 1000cc + bike either. At the end of the day its you that controls the speed with the throttle.
Good luck! And let us know what you go for
PS: don't expect to have any money left over, this biking thing is bloody addictive and you WILL spend most your cash on it
Edited by Byronico on Wednesday 10th July 12:43
I did my DAS at 30 (in 2010) and had no riding experience at the time at all, so similar situation.
Bought myself a brand new Z750, don't regret it. Although I do regret the fact I locked up the front wheel in the rain and I didn't go for the ABS option.
So, whatever bike you get, make sure you actually want it, and that it has ABS. Don't be afraid of dropping it, it will probably happen at slow to zero speed, stick some crash bungs on it.
Bought myself a brand new Z750, don't regret it. Although I do regret the fact I locked up the front wheel in the rain and I didn't go for the ABS option.
So, whatever bike you get, make sure you actually want it, and that it has ABS. Don't be afraid of dropping it, it will probably happen at slow to zero speed, stick some crash bungs on it.
dibblecorse said:
If you are doing Direct Access and straight onto an unrestricted licence, skip the 125 thing completely and get on something with some go that isn't too raw, the SV / Fazer / Hornet / Monster all good bikes and you can easily run one for 12-18 months, look after it and get a decent amount of your money back, then when more confident move onto something more powerful if you want and that could be a sportsbike, motard or tourer, that would be my route
I got a 125, pissed about on it for a bit and then did training and passed my test on a 125. If I did it all again I would not do that because I look like a bloody fool on a 125 and instead do the above. I honestly believe that given suitable training one of the above bike would be a more confidence inspiring learning experience than a 125 for a normal sized person.
I was in a similar position to you just under a year ago, although I'm a few years older. I took the option to go straight to the DAS route and don't regret it at all. I didn't get on with the 125 as much as I hoped and left the CBT happy but not exhilarated. However starting the DAS a couple of weeks later and the first minutes on the 600 had me hooked.
I'm guessing have 10+ years of experience driving a car so don't need to learn roadcraft like those in their teens. You won't go crazy speeds on the 600 but the bigger bike makes a lot of difference.
Regarding the bike Id say buy what you like. You say its just for fun as mine is so buy what makes you smile. I got a versys 650 as I wanted an upright position. Its plenty fast enough for now but very easy to control. One thing I will say is check insurance costs. As a new rider I found different bikes have a huge variation in price. Every litre+ bike I checked was over £1000 so it narrowed my choices a lot. This is also living in a small town, garaged etc. By comparison the versys was £170.
Good luck whatever you choose!
I'm guessing have 10+ years of experience driving a car so don't need to learn roadcraft like those in their teens. You won't go crazy speeds on the 600 but the bigger bike makes a lot of difference.
Regarding the bike Id say buy what you like. You say its just for fun as mine is so buy what makes you smile. I got a versys 650 as I wanted an upright position. Its plenty fast enough for now but very easy to control. One thing I will say is check insurance costs. As a new rider I found different bikes have a huge variation in price. Every litre+ bike I checked was over £1000 so it narrowed my choices a lot. This is also living in a small town, garaged etc. By comparison the versys was £170.
Good luck whatever you choose!
I passed way before DAS - but I still believe that 6 months commuting on a 125cc had a big impact on my riding during my test. Not sure that DAS can give you enough real world experience before giving you a licence.
Buying a used Japanese 125cc for under a grand will be a depreciation proofed way of gaining experience.
Buying a used Japanese 125cc for under a grand will be a depreciation proofed way of gaining experience.
I did DAS, and if I had my time over again would have got a 600 or similar for a year or two instead of the VFR800 I bought.
I reckoned it made more financial sense to buy the bike for my ultimate requirements (sports tourer for long weekend commutes into Scottish Highlands) first off rather than working my way up to it.
In practice, with a heavier and much more powerful bike than I had ever ridden before I pussyfooted around and never relaxed, thereby not developing key skills early on - took me ages to actually "enjoy" riding.
Something smaller initially would have allowed me to progress more effectively - and my slow speed and urban riding skills are still abysmal!
I reckoned it made more financial sense to buy the bike for my ultimate requirements (sports tourer for long weekend commutes into Scottish Highlands) first off rather than working my way up to it.
In practice, with a heavier and much more powerful bike than I had ever ridden before I pussyfooted around and never relaxed, thereby not developing key skills early on - took me ages to actually "enjoy" riding.
Something smaller initially would have allowed me to progress more effectively - and my slow speed and urban riding skills are still abysmal!
Thanks for the replies so far. Interesting to read plus it's good that there are a few that have been in a similar situation.
Seems the general consensus is DAS and up. I'll get my theory out of the way then book in.
Going gear buying at the weekend (well, enough to get onto the DAS without wearing someone else's sweat) and also have a wish list of items I want to plan for (the alpinestars air jacket looks like a fantastic investment)
The CB650R at the moment is the dream, if all goes to plan it'll be next season. (I say season as I already know I'm a fair weather rider) and there is no way on this earth I would fire down £7k on my first bike. That's asking for tears, from both my face and my wallet.
I've not actually sat on an SV as yet, will go have a butch at a couple.
I did the CBT on a 2016 CB125F and to be fair to it, bar it's dodgy throttle response, was a good little bike. Even managed to lean it and engine brake without too much bother, much to the instructors amazement (considering I have nil experience)
Plus if anyone knows Oxford, the instructor took me up the Cowley road at 5:30pm on the Saturday, the night before the carnival...so I definitely took a lot from that!
Will keep you all updated on progress!
Very excited
Seems the general consensus is DAS and up. I'll get my theory out of the way then book in.
Going gear buying at the weekend (well, enough to get onto the DAS without wearing someone else's sweat) and also have a wish list of items I want to plan for (the alpinestars air jacket looks like a fantastic investment)
The CB650R at the moment is the dream, if all goes to plan it'll be next season. (I say season as I already know I'm a fair weather rider) and there is no way on this earth I would fire down £7k on my first bike. That's asking for tears, from both my face and my wallet.
I've not actually sat on an SV as yet, will go have a butch at a couple.
I did the CBT on a 2016 CB125F and to be fair to it, bar it's dodgy throttle response, was a good little bike. Even managed to lean it and engine brake without too much bother, much to the instructors amazement (considering I have nil experience)
Plus if anyone knows Oxford, the instructor took me up the Cowley road at 5:30pm on the Saturday, the night before the carnival...so I definitely took a lot from that!
Will keep you all updated on progress!
Very excited
Did DAS last May (was a 50th birthday present). Never ridden before, other than twist and go scooters in circuit paddocks. Did it with BMW (Rookie to Rider scheme, albeit I did an internal BMW version of it - all the same training but didn't get the kit or bike included).
I thought the training was fabulous and I loved doing it in one go. When you have years of road craft from driving a car and you are an old git, you have more of a sense of self preservation that a younger version of you - so you are focused on the bike skills. Emphasis on safety was huge on the BMW course - the bikes and gear were all top notch and properly laundered between courses (the gear, not the bikes).
Following the course I had an R NineT for a month which was great - low CoG, lots of torque and easy to ride, then an F800R for 6 months. Learned a lot on that as it was smaller and lighter than what came next - 1250GS. I'm glad I had the time on the 800 before the GS.
I know I am biased but i think the Rookie to Rider scheme is really good - you don't have to take the 310, you can do the scheme with any bike - its a 2-3 year lease, £1200 of kit and the DAS course for a one off contribution of around £500.
I thought the training was fabulous and I loved doing it in one go. When you have years of road craft from driving a car and you are an old git, you have more of a sense of self preservation that a younger version of you - so you are focused on the bike skills. Emphasis on safety was huge on the BMW course - the bikes and gear were all top notch and properly laundered between courses (the gear, not the bikes).
Following the course I had an R NineT for a month which was great - low CoG, lots of torque and easy to ride, then an F800R for 6 months. Learned a lot on that as it was smaller and lighter than what came next - 1250GS. I'm glad I had the time on the 800 before the GS.
I know I am biased but i think the Rookie to Rider scheme is really good - you don't have to take the 310, you can do the scheme with any bike - its a 2-3 year lease, £1200 of kit and the DAS course for a one off contribution of around £500.
Your friends are right imo. An old 600 hornet has 95bhp and trust me, it will feel like a rocket ship.
I dont get this go straight for a 1000cc or whatever. The reason being is that if you plan to ride for years and experience as many of these great machines as possible then why go in at the top ?
The pleasure is in the journey. You will probably change bikes at least once a year to start with. This is no problem as they dont tend to lose a lot of value and by starting on an old 600 you will so much more appreciate the newer and more powerful machinery.
I started on an old 600, then a 750 vtwin and now I have an old 954 fireblade all with 1 1/2 years of riding. I would not have appreciated the power and handling of the fireblade without having the experience of lower power/quality bikes.
The reason I'm on a relatively old fireblade now is because I wanted to try what an old school 1000cc sportsbike was like before abs and traction control kicked in. Then when I ride a newer superbike I'll have the old blade to compare it against.
I love the blade but it will be changed next year for triumph 1050 speed triple as I've always wanted one. Point being you'll have so many years riding ahead of you and you can ride all great bikes of the past and present, but all in good time.
Also my insurance on the old hornet was £225 just after passing my test but I do have 10 years on you...
I dont get this go straight for a 1000cc or whatever. The reason being is that if you plan to ride for years and experience as many of these great machines as possible then why go in at the top ?
The pleasure is in the journey. You will probably change bikes at least once a year to start with. This is no problem as they dont tend to lose a lot of value and by starting on an old 600 you will so much more appreciate the newer and more powerful machinery.
I started on an old 600, then a 750 vtwin and now I have an old 954 fireblade all with 1 1/2 years of riding. I would not have appreciated the power and handling of the fireblade without having the experience of lower power/quality bikes.
The reason I'm on a relatively old fireblade now is because I wanted to try what an old school 1000cc sportsbike was like before abs and traction control kicked in. Then when I ride a newer superbike I'll have the old blade to compare it against.
I love the blade but it will be changed next year for triumph 1050 speed triple as I've always wanted one. Point being you'll have so many years riding ahead of you and you can ride all great bikes of the past and present, but all in good time.
Also my insurance on the old hornet was £225 just after passing my test but I do have 10 years on you...
Get the bike you want
I did CBT, bought a brand new CBR125R - hated wee bike, did intensive course 4 weeks later and passed then bought an Africa Twin. First bike, had never ridden before my CBT. The nice thing about Adv bikes is that they don't seem to make you ride like a maniac but have a great riding position for all round observation - really important when a new rider.
Whatever you get do enjoy and consider an Advanced training course to get you half way proficient - CBT and DAS give bare bones of how to actually ride!
I did CBT, bought a brand new CBR125R - hated wee bike, did intensive course 4 weeks later and passed then bought an Africa Twin. First bike, had never ridden before my CBT. The nice thing about Adv bikes is that they don't seem to make you ride like a maniac but have a great riding position for all round observation - really important when a new rider.
Whatever you get do enjoy and consider an Advanced training course to get you half way proficient - CBT and DAS give bare bones of how to actually ride!
I did the CBT and grabbed a 125, quickly found myself really enjoying things and then did the DAS and immediatly swapped the 125 for a 600.
IMO, it's pointless buying a 125 if you're going straight for your DAS - you do the whole DAS course on a 600, get a licence entitling you to ride anything, so do just that - buy anything. A 600 is a sensible start. The 125 will very quickly become boring with a desire for more.
IMO, it's pointless buying a 125 if you're going straight for your DAS - you do the whole DAS course on a 600, get a licence entitling you to ride anything, so do just that - buy anything. A 600 is a sensible start. The 125 will very quickly become boring with a desire for more.
Also check your road tax prices, bikes work on cc rating therefore if you can find a 600cc with the same bhp as a 650cc get the smaller bike as it will save you some money
( i know theres more more important consideration but it still irks me that i fell into that trap for a sunday toy!)
( i know theres more more important consideration but it still irks me that i fell into that trap for a sunday toy!)
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