Is A Supermoto The Answer ?
Discussion
I've ridden dirt bikes across fields when I was 13-17 and held a bike licence for 25 years but thought I'd wait until I calmed down to get one, I now realise that isn't going to happen so I thought I'd try off road riding.
I bought a KTM 450 last year and went to a couple of enduro practise tracks - it was fun but a bit scary due to my relative lack of skill / experience and I didn't really get a buzz like I do when driving fast.
I thought I'd try green laning - and joined the TRF - I've done a couple of 6hr runs and whilst I like being in a group, I find I hardly see the scenery because I have to concentrate on the ground conditions so much and again I'm not getting a buzz. Also falling off - mostly due to deep ruts, meaning aching for days which somewhat spoils the experience
Whilst I'm sure I'd like Sports bikes I know it's not a good idea, so to keep speeds down would a supermoto be the answer ?
Having spent the afternoon googling, the 390 Duke seems to be highly recommended although it isn't what I think of as a supermoto. I have wondered about getting some road wheels for my KTM 450 but it's been so unreliable, I fancy a change.
Thoughts ?
I bought a KTM 450 last year and went to a couple of enduro practise tracks - it was fun but a bit scary due to my relative lack of skill / experience and I didn't really get a buzz like I do when driving fast.
I thought I'd try green laning - and joined the TRF - I've done a couple of 6hr runs and whilst I like being in a group, I find I hardly see the scenery because I have to concentrate on the ground conditions so much and again I'm not getting a buzz. Also falling off - mostly due to deep ruts, meaning aching for days which somewhat spoils the experience
Whilst I'm sure I'd like Sports bikes I know it's not a good idea, so to keep speeds down would a supermoto be the answer ?
Having spent the afternoon googling, the 390 Duke seems to be highly recommended although it isn't what I think of as a supermoto. I have wondered about getting some road wheels for my KTM 450 but it's been so unreliable, I fancy a change.
Thoughts ?
The 390 is probably a bit too slow, I would think, to be thrilling.
A proper supermoto is an enduro bike with road wheels and I gather they are a blast, especially on c and B roads or around town.
So your KTM would be a good candidate or a Yamaha WR450F, the 450 enduro Honda or a KTM500.
A proper supermoto is an enduro bike with road wheels and I gather they are a blast, especially on c and B roads or around town.
So your KTM would be a good candidate or a Yamaha WR450F, the 450 enduro Honda or a KTM500.
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
The 390 is probably a bit too slow, I would think, to be thrilling.
A proper supermoto is an enduro bike with road wheels and I gather they are a blast, especially on c and B roads or around town.
So your KTM would be a good candidate or a Yamaha WR450F, the 450 enduro Honda or a KTM500.
I agree, I have a KTM 450 EXC on supermoto wheels and it's great fun to ride, it's got enough torque to just pull and pull through the gears without running into licence losing figures like my GSXR 750 or R1 does. I have never got off of my KTM without a smile on my face, it's great fun to ride. I need to get it properly off road though, I tried it once and crashed twice within half a mile, it was very muddy!A proper supermoto is an enduro bike with road wheels and I gather they are a blast, especially on c and B roads or around town.
So your KTM would be a good candidate or a Yamaha WR450F, the 450 enduro Honda or a KTM500.
I hadn't heard of the scrambler - a bit too stylised for me but it seems there is far more choice in this category than I thought.
I'm not sure if the 390 will be enough - although it's only a smidge slower than the 450, as I'm still very new to biking I don't want to be upgrading after a month or two although the reviews are very good, particularly for the 2017 model which is available for less than £3k
In cars I like thrashing them and throwing them around rather than point and squirt although I'm aware than thrashing bikes around twisty lanes probably isn't the recipe for a long life so I'm wondering if I can take it slower and enjoy the ride but so far, it seems not.
I'm not sure if the 390 will be enough - although it's only a smidge slower than the 450, as I'm still very new to biking I don't want to be upgrading after a month or two although the reviews are very good, particularly for the 2017 model which is available for less than £3k
In cars I like thrashing them and throwing them around rather than point and squirt although I'm aware than thrashing bikes around twisty lanes probably isn't the recipe for a long life so I'm wondering if I can take it slower and enjoy the ride but so far, it seems not.
I once had a Mk2 TDM 850. They weren't fashionable, but after fitting a taller Hagon shock, lowering the fork yokes, stiffer springs andd heavier fork oil it handled really well on bumpy, tight, twisty hill back roads. The long travel makes a big difference.
It was far better on roads like that (my favourite type) than subsequent more powerful bikes.
(I even removed the fairing, fitted round lamps, re-located the ECU and made a "streetfighter")
I have urges to get a Kawasaki Versys 650 and to tweak the handling for a similar effect.
It was far better on roads like that (my favourite type) than subsequent more powerful bikes.
(I even removed the fairing, fitted round lamps, re-located the ECU and made a "streetfighter")
I have urges to get a Kawasaki Versys 650 and to tweak the handling for a similar effect.
Supermoto does sound like it would fit the bill.
I used to have more fun on mine than I do on my current R6 and a lot lower speeds.
I used to have a CCM R30 644cc which uses the Suzuki 650 big single...exactly the same as the one below
It was classed as a sort of 'fat' supermoto by my mates that were on Husky 510's, CRF450's, SXV450/550's...and it was a bit lardy compared to them, but used to be a proper good laugh on the proper roads!
I used to have more fun on mine than I do on my current R6 and a lot lower speeds.
I used to have a CCM R30 644cc which uses the Suzuki 650 big single...exactly the same as the one below
It was classed as a sort of 'fat' supermoto by my mates that were on Husky 510's, CRF450's, SXV450/550's...and it was a bit lardy compared to them, but used to be a proper good laugh on the proper roads!
get a trials bike and get good on teh dirt .. then get a two stroke ktm and ride local enduros ...
or get a pit bike with supermoto wheels and come to swindon karting monday nights ... excellent fun and real knee down fun
road going supermotos are likely to get you lots of points as they are TOOOO much fun
or get a pit bike with supermoto wheels and come to swindon karting monday nights ... excellent fun and real knee down fun
road going supermotos are likely to get you lots of points as they are TOOOO much fun
I’ve ridden on the road for ages and started off road summer 2018. I’ve done about 80 hours on the off road bike now. Still rubbish compared to those who have been doing it years but I am getting there. I’d say don’t give up too quickly and I think your experience may be tainted by all the faff with your bike. Are you wearing body armour? I didn’t for my first few months, but it’s made a difference since I’ve started. Enduro practice days are also very tough if you haven’t got comfortable on that type of surface and confident with the ruts. Ruts still do have me off, but it’s mainly when I end up in one that I didn’t see early enough to enter it properly,
I’ve always loved bikes and have ridden big bikes continuously since the 90s, but the simplicity of the enduro bikes, and the challenge of learning to deal with all the issues off road throws at you has really got me totally hooked. Final thought is that these bikes encourage iffy behaviour (albeit at fairly low speed), they take s lot of restraint to ride sensibly on the road.
I’ve always loved bikes and have ridden big bikes continuously since the 90s, but the simplicity of the enduro bikes, and the challenge of learning to deal with all the issues off road throws at you has really got me totally hooked. Final thought is that these bikes encourage iffy behaviour (albeit at fairly low speed), they take s lot of restraint to ride sensibly on the road.
God yes - I'm ready for mortal combat !
On my first enduro day it was so dry we were riding in 12" of "coco powder" in the corners, I came off on a few and wasn't sure whether to be pleased of not when I found my knee protectors had split - I hadn't felt anything.
I think it may be that because I keep falling off (only 2 trips where I haven't) I'm very aware of the possibility of injury hence not going fast enough to enjoy myself, or I'm getting frustrated that progress is so slow.
I will add that I have seen worse riders and have overtaken 3 - yes 3 people !
I'm going to book in for an enduro training day and take it from there
On my first enduro day it was so dry we were riding in 12" of "coco powder" in the corners, I came off on a few and wasn't sure whether to be pleased of not when I found my knee protectors had split - I hadn't felt anything.
I think it may be that because I keep falling off (only 2 trips where I haven't) I'm very aware of the possibility of injury hence not going fast enough to enjoy myself, or I'm getting frustrated that progress is so slow.
I will add that I have seen worse riders and have overtaken 3 - yes 3 people !
I'm going to book in for an enduro training day and take it from there
I didn’t realised you were basically a new rider mate. In which case perhaps you should get something fun and naked like a speed triple. Then buy loads of protective kit and get some advanced training. Assuming you aren’t retarded you will probably be able to refrain from going full banzai and putting it through a hedge :-)
Also you could do track days.
Also you could do track days.
I had a Husky SM610 and loved everything about it except the worry of whether it would start/get to destination.
My twice weekly commute to gf extended to 150km so it had to go as my eyes were watering from the seat at that distance.
I bought a Duc Hypermotard 1100S and it was perfectly capable but nowhere near the fun.
I have recently bought a 2018 KTM 690SMCR and its the most fun I've had with my clothes on.
It keeps me to sensible speeds on highway, is awesome fun in the twisty bits, great visibility in traffic and it feels well made.
I've only done 2000km so far but nothing has fallen off and it hasn't missed a beat - I'm v happy.
My twice weekly commute to gf extended to 150km so it had to go as my eyes were watering from the seat at that distance.
I bought a Duc Hypermotard 1100S and it was perfectly capable but nowhere near the fun.
I have recently bought a 2018 KTM 690SMCR and its the most fun I've had with my clothes on.
It keeps me to sensible speeds on highway, is awesome fun in the twisty bits, great visibility in traffic and it feels well made.
I've only done 2000km so far but nothing has fallen off and it hasn't missed a beat - I'm v happy.
Which area TFR? Ours, Somerset, is amazing.
Loads of guided rides - usually groups of 6, almost always a pub lunch. We stop frequently for views. Sometimes we do 2 days with a pub overnight. 2 or three woodland events each year. PLus an enduro / MX day once a year (where you learn to really jump!)
450 is a big bike for green laning. Big and heavy. Most use 250-350, 2t and 4t. Easier to pick up off the floor the better!
Mud rutting is an aquired skill. No one is the master of it but you get good enough to stay on most of the time.
Take Ibprofen before you start, and then at lunch time. You don't ache afterwards!
We do mixed days from moderate,. to extremely challenging (lots of wet bedrock in Devon...)
I've had a Supermoto - was awesome for London commuting. Proper license remover. Wouldn't want one for geneal pleasure riding though, and you might find your 450 gearing all wrong for road use.
Couple of weekends ago...
Loads of guided rides - usually groups of 6, almost always a pub lunch. We stop frequently for views. Sometimes we do 2 days with a pub overnight. 2 or three woodland events each year. PLus an enduro / MX day once a year (where you learn to really jump!)
450 is a big bike for green laning. Big and heavy. Most use 250-350, 2t and 4t. Easier to pick up off the floor the better!
Mud rutting is an aquired skill. No one is the master of it but you get good enough to stay on most of the time.
Take Ibprofen before you start, and then at lunch time. You don't ache afterwards!
We do mixed days from moderate,. to extremely challenging (lots of wet bedrock in Devon...)
I've had a Supermoto - was awesome for London commuting. Proper license remover. Wouldn't want one for geneal pleasure riding though, and you might find your 450 gearing all wrong for road use.
Couple of weekends ago...
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 17th September 12:15
i'm in a similar position. starting my theory this week and thinking about what bike i want, and the answer seems very similar to you. i want a husky svartpilen 401 which is basically a jazzed up ktm duke 390.
from what i see you can add a decat pipe, slip on exhaust and a tune and get 55bhp out of this engine. the decat also drops 10kg, so power to weight is markedly improved. duke forums are great for finding what low cost parts can be swapped on [i.e. r6 rear shock] and the benefits thereof.
my biker friends tell mei should get a ducati scrambler or a monster 797. i sat on both at the weekend and the former felt way too low and the latter too big and heavy. plans for the bike are winter commuting, touring, trails, wadi bashing etc. i want something light and fun and zippy. i've sat on the husky and it seems to fit the bill exactly. hopefully in a couple of months i'll be test riding one plus alternative options.
from what i see you can add a decat pipe, slip on exhaust and a tune and get 55bhp out of this engine. the decat also drops 10kg, so power to weight is markedly improved. duke forums are great for finding what low cost parts can be swapped on [i.e. r6 rear shock] and the benefits thereof.
my biker friends tell mei should get a ducati scrambler or a monster 797. i sat on both at the weekend and the former felt way too low and the latter too big and heavy. plans for the bike are winter commuting, touring, trails, wadi bashing etc. i want something light and fun and zippy. i've sat on the husky and it seems to fit the bill exactly. hopefully in a couple of months i'll be test riding one plus alternative options.
Ran a KTM 690 SMC R a few years ago, and now running a 790 Duke. If you want to go any distance, the 790 is the way to go. If you want a bike that is purely for going out for a laugh, the 690 is everything. If you want to have fun on a commute, the 790 is a brilliant bit of kit.
Neither are chronically unreliable; my 690 never broke and my 790 so far is an indicator and a jubilee clip down, neither anything more than an annoyance.
The 390s are "just passed my test" bikes. Alright, but not really anything entertaining.
Neither are chronically unreliable; my 690 never broke and my 790 so far is an indicator and a jubilee clip down, neither anything more than an annoyance.
The 390s are "just passed my test" bikes. Alright, but not really anything entertaining.
My gen 2 KTM 690 Duke is an amazing bike. Get one, after mid-2016 if you can, when they made many improvements. The second model has a bigger piston, a shorter stroke and revs 1,000 rpm higher, with a fainlty ridiculous 9,000 rpm red line. For a huge single that is territory any of the old mass production singles can only dream about. There is a better dashboard also as well as handling improvements.
Mine has a full Akrapovic exhaust, modified air box and the fuelling has been set up to run as well as possible. It has a tad over 80 bhp. Weighs very little too, a useful chunk of kgs went with the standard exhaust system.
PTW ratio is about the same as the first Fireblade, a sobering thought for a 1 cylinder!
Mine has a full Akrapovic exhaust, modified air box and the fuelling has been set up to run as well as possible. It has a tad over 80 bhp. Weighs very little too, a useful chunk of kgs went with the standard exhaust system.
PTW ratio is about the same as the first Fireblade, a sobering thought for a 1 cylinder!
you are better off getting a days training or so with the enduro bike
these REME guys used to do a training day -> http://www.armymotorsports.co.uk/Disciplines/Endur...
or if you are fit and strong spend a weekend being beasted by Lee
http://www.leewaltersoffroadtrainingschool.co.uk/
He is a welsh enduro guy and we had some mega weekends with him ...
or even trials day with trix in the sticks
these REME guys used to do a training day -> http://www.armymotorsports.co.uk/Disciplines/Endur...
or if you are fit and strong spend a weekend being beasted by Lee
http://www.leewaltersoffroadtrainingschool.co.uk/
He is a welsh enduro guy and we had some mega weekends with him ...
or even trials day with trix in the sticks
Yes...what was the question?
If you're doing green laning and enduro then as a relatively new rider a 450 is massively too big and powerful. Unless you're Jeremy McGrath reborn and already using all the power.
If you're on the road then a 450 is fine but tyres are limiting and yes a supermoto is a royal hoot. I've only ridden one (a YZ400 from memory) but loved it.
As for the TDM850 someone suggested? TeDiuM850 more like! My wife described it as a clown bike when she rode it. Although to be fair she normally rides a RVF400 so just about everything feels wobbly after that.
If you're doing green laning and enduro then as a relatively new rider a 450 is massively too big and powerful. Unless you're Jeremy McGrath reborn and already using all the power.
If you're on the road then a 450 is fine but tyres are limiting and yes a supermoto is a royal hoot. I've only ridden one (a YZ400 from memory) but loved it.
As for the TDM850 someone suggested? TeDiuM850 more like! My wife described it as a clown bike when she rode it. Although to be fair she normally rides a RVF400 so just about everything feels wobbly after that.
3nduro said:
you are better off getting a days training or so with the enduro bike
these REME guys used to do a training day -> http://www.armymotorsports.co.uk/Disciplines/Endur...
or if you are fit and strong spend a weekend being beasted by Lee
http://www.leewaltersoffroadtrainingschool.co.uk/
He is a welsh enduro guy and we had some mega weekends with him ...
or even trials day with trix in the sticks
Thanks, have bookmarked themthese REME guys used to do a training day -> http://www.armymotorsports.co.uk/Disciplines/Endur...
or if you are fit and strong spend a weekend being beasted by Lee
http://www.leewaltersoffroadtrainingschool.co.uk/
He is a welsh enduro guy and we had some mega weekends with him ...
or even trials day with trix in the sticks
TBH whilst I'm in good shape for my age, I'm not fit enough to do a couple of days enduro training
I'm at the stage where I need to spend more time on the bike and just get a few pointers, I spent most of Saturday practising what I was taught in 20 mins and am miles from perfecting it.
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