Very high old-bike values, is it just rarity?
Discussion
I think the bike buying public are three parts barmy these days, to be completely honest.
I'll explain. I had no trouble whatsoever selling a Garelli Tiger Cross moped in May for £5,200, an attractive but hopelessly impractical and slow device and incredibly difficult to complete any kind of journey on for many reasons, not least reliability (crap quality and finish, even when brand new or as new). I also got almost £20,000 for a Honda CB750 from 1970 last year, via E Bay with 150 E Bayers watching.
I saw recently things like a Kawasaki Z1 sell for £23,000 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane for £35,000.
YET, a very well kept Kawasaki ZX-9R, the later and lighter C1 version from 1998 wasn't able to even reach £1,500. Why? That's a great bike in my book and quite rare now too.
IS it just how old or how few left? How few were made? How much people wanted them AT the time they came out but couldn't afford one, or what?
What makes people spend £20,000 on a Honda 750 from 1970 but only £1,500 for a Kawasaki ZX-9, an altogether far better bike and getting rare itself? Or will that Kawasaki be £20,000 in 20 years' time?
I get Brough Superiors fetching crazy money but why an X75? A tarted up Trident FGS! Why on earth is that worth £35,000?
I'll explain. I had no trouble whatsoever selling a Garelli Tiger Cross moped in May for £5,200, an attractive but hopelessly impractical and slow device and incredibly difficult to complete any kind of journey on for many reasons, not least reliability (crap quality and finish, even when brand new or as new). I also got almost £20,000 for a Honda CB750 from 1970 last year, via E Bay with 150 E Bayers watching.
I saw recently things like a Kawasaki Z1 sell for £23,000 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane for £35,000.
YET, a very well kept Kawasaki ZX-9R, the later and lighter C1 version from 1998 wasn't able to even reach £1,500. Why? That's a great bike in my book and quite rare now too.
IS it just how old or how few left? How few were made? How much people wanted them AT the time they came out but couldn't afford one, or what?
What makes people spend £20,000 on a Honda 750 from 1970 but only £1,500 for a Kawasaki ZX-9, an altogether far better bike and getting rare itself? Or will that Kawasaki be £20,000 in 20 years' time?
I get Brough Superiors fetching crazy money but why an X75? A tarted up Trident FGS! Why on earth is that worth £35,000?
Why did Morris Minors and MGBs (and Mk2 Jags which went stupid) make such big money in the late 80s?
Emperor's new clothes? Or was it the latest trend?
Nostalgia always sells. That's the thing. I agree with you, the price of two strokes of my youth at the moment are ridiculous. An RD80LC making £1500 and needing a fair bit of work. A Suzuki X7 making £5k+ all day long. Even an X5 over £3k. I keep looking for a Suzuki GT 125 but just know I'll never be able to afford it in my head. £1k for two tea chests of bits and a frame. And a FS1E making how much?? When a Chinese twist and go will easily see it off.
Sooner or later everything will be worth stupid money.
Emperor's new clothes? Or was it the latest trend?
Nostalgia always sells. That's the thing. I agree with you, the price of two strokes of my youth at the moment are ridiculous. An RD80LC making £1500 and needing a fair bit of work. A Suzuki X7 making £5k+ all day long. Even an X5 over £3k. I keep looking for a Suzuki GT 125 but just know I'll never be able to afford it in my head. £1k for two tea chests of bits and a frame. And a FS1E making how much?? When a Chinese twist and go will easily see it off.
Sooner or later everything will be worth stupid money.
People want to re-live their youth quite simply.
I remember when the CB750 came out in 1969, it sent shockwaves through the bike industry, although personally I think it was (in retrospect) overrated, but I would have loved one at the time, if I could have afforded it.
The classic motorbike scene is booming, but I can see an end to it, as new young bikers are not coming through these days in the same numbers as years ago.
I remember when the CB750 came out in 1969, it sent shockwaves through the bike industry, although personally I think it was (in retrospect) overrated, but I would have loved one at the time, if I could have afforded it.
The classic motorbike scene is booming, but I can see an end to it, as new young bikers are not coming through these days in the same numbers as years ago.
That's interesting about the ZX9R - I'm doing a bit of a restoration of a C2 right now and have found some parts (lower fairing, rear mudguard/tray, stickers for the chain guard) are no longer available. Which, if one was interested in a ZX9R, would make you pay more attention and dollars for a good one knowing the difficulty in getting a duffer up to scratch! I guess the next step is getting people interested in ZX9R's......
Wacky Racer said:
People want to re-live their youth quite simply.
The classic motorbike scene is booming, but I can see an end to it, as new young bikers are not coming through these days in the same numbers as years ago.
Its not as simple as that , classic bikes are almost affordable compared to Vintage bikes.The classic motorbike scene is booming, but I can see an end to it, as new young bikers are not coming through these days in the same numbers as years ago.
The owners of these 90+ year old vintage bikes didnt own them first time around , there owned and maintained by investors / collectors and dedicated enthusiasts, more and more classic car enthusiasts are also building up a bike collection alongside it, bikes are cheap compared to something like a 70s sporting Escort with some heritage.
No , the owner profile may be different and he /she may not even be a biker but a mint RC30 or what have you in 30/50 years time is going to be an increasingly valuable thing.
PS Friend of mine has just bought a mint RD80LC the other week, he paid 3.5K for it , its a lovely thing and he’s dead chuffed with it.
rodericb said:
That's interesting about the ZX9R - I'm doing a bit of a restoration of a C2 right now and have found some parts (lower fairing, rear mudguard/tray, stickers for the chain guard) are no longer available. Which, if one was interested in a ZX9R, would make you pay more attention and dollars for a good one knowing the difficulty in getting a duffer up to scratch! I guess the next step is getting people interested in ZX9R's......
Same with my mk1 blade.Toma500 said:
Soo annoying finally have some spare cash and everything i like is statospheric
Jota , mk 1 guzzi lemans , H1,H2 , kettles , Z1s ,Katanas everythings a fortune .
Which is exactly why bikes for the "wanted one when I was young but couldn't afford it" brigade become expensive. Lots of old gits (like me and I guess you Jota , mk 1 guzzi lemans , H1,H2 , kettles , Z1s ,Katanas everythings a fortune .
) wanting the bike of their yoof, all at roughly the same time.At least the Griffith is appreciating
Toma500 said:
Soo annoying finally have some spare cash and everything i like is statospheric
Jota , mk 1 guzzi lemans , H1,H2 , kettles , Z1s ,Katanas everythings a fortune .
I must have been one of the lucky ones, my first proper bike was a Jota when I was 19 years old, never owned an H1 or a Katana but managed the others on your list plus many others, if only I'd known then what they'd be worth now & kept them.............I'd never have afforded to buy anything else. Jota , mk 1 guzzi lemans , H1,H2 , kettles , Z1s ,Katanas everythings a fortune .
I don't regret selling them at the time, but I do wish they were a bit more affordable today!
V1nce Fox said:
Some stuff comes down to encapsulating the style of the era too. I'd love an original RC30 even though I've never owned one. I could look at one for hours though.
I bought a VFR750R RC30 when they first came out and for unfortunate reasons had to move soon afterwards and the bike sat under a cover in the garden of the temporary residence. Those weeks felt like years as i expected it to be gone any time soon.But the bike itself was amazing, though in truth a 2009 GSXR750 would run rings round it. The very high first gear and heavy clutch were unpleasant in town. But what does a minter fetch now, £30K?
Some older rarities can be good value. I have recently picked up a Cagiva Mito 125, the 916 lookalike, with the 7 speed close ratio gearbox, the nearest thing to a GP 125 bike for just £1,200.
People have actually put nicely set up 500cc 4 stroke singles in these bikes, to give a reliable 50 bhp and about 125 kgs, a handy PTW ratio.
Strangely that's a better PTW ratio than an H1 500 triple widow maker!
People have actually put nicely set up 500cc 4 stroke singles in these bikes, to give a reliable 50 bhp and about 125 kgs, a handy PTW ratio.
Strangely that's a better PTW ratio than an H1 500 triple widow maker!
Grindle said:
V1nce Fox said:
Some stuff comes down to encapsulating the style of the era too. I'd love an original RC30 even though I've never owned one. I could look at one for hours though.
I bought a VFR750R RC30 when they first came out and for unfortunate reasons had to move soon afterwards and the bike sat under a cover in the garden of the temporary residence. Those weeks felt like years as i expected it to be gone any time soon.But the bike itself was amazing, though in truth a 2009 GSXR750 would run rings round it. The very high first gear and heavy clutch were unpleasant in town. But what does a minter fetch now, £30K?
podman said:
Its not as simple as that , classic bikes are almost affordable compared to Vintage bikes.
The owners of these 90+ year old vintage bikes didnt own them first time around , there owned and maintained by investors / collectors and dedicated enthusiasts, more and more classic car enthusiasts are also building up a bike collection alongside it, bikes are cheap compared to something like a 70s sporting Escort with some heritage.
No , the owner profile may be different and he /she may not even be a biker but a mint RC30 or what have you in 30/50 years time is going to be an increasingly valuable thing.
PS Friend of mine has just bought a mint RD80LC the other week, he paid 3.5K for it , its a lovely thing and he’s dead chuffed with it.
Absolutely this. Go to Banbury run which has 600+ vintage (pre-1931) bikes and is oversubscribed every year. None of those people can cite nostalgia!The owners of these 90+ year old vintage bikes didnt own them first time around , there owned and maintained by investors / collectors and dedicated enthusiasts, more and more classic car enthusiasts are also building up a bike collection alongside it, bikes are cheap compared to something like a 70s sporting Escort with some heritage.
No , the owner profile may be different and he /she may not even be a biker but a mint RC30 or what have you in 30/50 years time is going to be an increasingly valuable thing.
PS Friend of mine has just bought a mint RD80LC the other week, he paid 3.5K for it , its a lovely thing and he’s dead chuffed with it.
There’s something massively ‘raw’ about riding a vintage bike. It literally is fuel, air and a mechanically generated spark. For engineer type people the appeal is huge, and from what I’ve seen the path tends to be nostalgia, then buy something a bit older, then older...
And I also agree with Podman about car collectors buying bikes too. If you’ve a few million pounds worth of cars sat there spending 80 grand on a Black Shadow and 100 grand on an SS80 Brough is nothing to have pretty much the best old bikes.
Classic car buyers seem to have moved into the bike market, especially since the car market has softened.
A bike with (or even a tenuous link to) racing heritage usually sells at a premium, likewise ground breaking or technically interesting will bring in speculators.
Does the amount of bodywork and/or high complexity of modern bikes deter enthusiasts?
The thought of removing fragile bodywork to perform routine servicing leaves me cold these days!
A bike with (or even a tenuous link to) racing heritage usually sells at a premium, likewise ground breaking or technically interesting will bring in speculators.
Does the amount of bodywork and/or high complexity of modern bikes deter enthusiasts?
The thought of removing fragile bodywork to perform routine servicing leaves me cold these days!
GSXR1192 said:
Does the amount of bodywork and/or high complexity of modern bikes deter enthusiasts?
The thought of removing fragile bodywork to perform routine servicing leaves me cold these days!
This is partly it for me. There's something really appealing about mechanical things. Once you get involved with electronics and fuel maps etc it leaves me cold, maybe because it's too much like work! The simplicity of vintage bikes is the most appealing thing to me, and riding them is completely 'raw'.The thought of removing fragile bodywork to perform routine servicing leaves me cold these days!
Dalmahoy said:
Money in the bank is doing nothing at all.
Spend some buying either the bike you've always wanted or one takes you back to your youth - whats there not to like?
There's an element of this too. I've just bought a DBD34 Goldstar (although I haven't collected it yet!) as they're as low priced as they've been for a long while, I've always wanted one and may as well have the money in a bike I can enjoy and sell if I need to as have it in the bank doing nothing!Spend some buying either the bike you've always wanted or one takes you back to your youth - whats there not to like?
What sort of condition and spec is the Gold Star you have bought? I reluctantly sold mine (immaculate) last year for £22,000. It was in Clubmans trim with the correct RRT2 gearbox, original Amal GP carb and the proper Goldie silencer.
I saw one at the Ace Cafe last summer, but it had electronic ignition, 600cc, belt primary drive, electric start, slightly wider tyres and a few other mods for reliabilty. I thought that would make for a a far better bike but reduce the value as it was not standard, but i was reliably informed that Goldie buyers LIKE all that stuff now!
I saw one at the Ace Cafe last summer, but it had electronic ignition, 600cc, belt primary drive, electric start, slightly wider tyres and a few other mods for reliabilty. I thought that would make for a a far better bike but reduce the value as it was not standard, but i was reliably informed that Goldie buyers LIKE all that stuff now!
Grindle said:
What sort of condition and spec is the Gold Star you have bought? I reluctantly sold mine (immaculate) last year for £22,000. It was in Clubmans trim with the correct RRT2 gearbox, original Amal GP carb and the proper Goldie silencer.
I saw one at the Ace Cafe last summer, but it had electronic ignition, 600cc, belt primary drive, electric start, slightly wider tyres and a few other mods for reliabilty. I thought that would make for a a far better bike but reduce the value as it was not standard, but i was reliably informed that Goldie buyers LIKE all that stuff now!
Full clubmans spec, matching numbers and all the proper gear on it as yours had. It's come via a px on another bike so a little hard to work out exactly what it's cost, but nearer 15k I think. It's in really good condition but has been standing a couple of years. I wouldn't want to modernise it; if I want something comfy and reliable I'd get something with all that stuff on it. I want something that's a proper occasion to start and ride!I saw one at the Ace Cafe last summer, but it had electronic ignition, 600cc, belt primary drive, electric start, slightly wider tyres and a few other mods for reliabilty. I thought that would make for a a far better bike but reduce the value as it was not standard, but i was reliably informed that Goldie buyers LIKE all that stuff now!
Had a genuine Rocket Goldstar a few years ago which was nice but I've always preferred single cylinder bikes! It'll be interesting to see how the DBD compares to the Venom.
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