Motorbike users are around 6,650% more likely to die...
Discussion
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/352401/motor...
What a ridiculously sensationalist headline!
The rest of the article is not much better...
"Don’t go thinking I’m starting a motorist vs biker war here....More proof is in DfT data, which tragically reveals that motorcyclists account for under one per cent of road traffic, yet 20 per cent of road deaths. Unacceptable. Unfathomable. Unsustainable. It’s got to stop."
What a ridiculously sensationalist headline!
The rest of the article is not much better...
"Don’t go thinking I’m starting a motorist vs biker war here....More proof is in DfT data, which tragically reveals that motorcyclists account for under one per cent of road traffic, yet 20 per cent of road deaths. Unacceptable. Unfathomable. Unsustainable. It’s got to stop."
Edited by NITO on Monday 1st June 15:58
The data is objectively correct from the DfT, unless you go about in a helicopter it's a pretty f
king dangerous way to travel around, but there's no data presented in that article to support the author's claim that bikers are an excessive ,or even significant burden on the NHS.
Lifestyle choices caused by poor diet, excessive drinking, smoking, and lack of exercise are far bigger burdens to our crumbling healthcare system. I'd probably try and make some effort to reduce those larger problems first before going after the most persecuted road users in the UK... But then again, I don't need the revenue from car advertising to keep my lights on, and here we are linking to his article.
king dangerous way to travel around, but there's no data presented in that article to support the author's claim that bikers are an excessive ,or even significant burden on the NHS. Lifestyle choices caused by poor diet, excessive drinking, smoking, and lack of exercise are far bigger burdens to our crumbling healthcare system. I'd probably try and make some effort to reduce those larger problems first before going after the most persecuted road users in the UK... But then again, I don't need the revenue from car advertising to keep my lights on, and here we are linking to his article.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Monday 1st June 16:13
"66.5 times more likely to die" is easier to understand but doesn't make such good click bait (in the article)
IME the biggest risk to bikers is car drivers so my solution to the problem would be :
Make everyone ride a bike / scooter for a year before they can apply for a car license
Retests every 5-10 years for both car and bike licences
IME the biggest risk to bikers is car drivers so my solution to the problem would be :
Make everyone ride a bike / scooter for a year before they can apply for a car license
Retests every 5-10 years for both car and bike licences
Edited by V8RX7 on Monday 1st June 16:32
Prof Prolapse said:
The data is objectively correct from the DfT, unless you go about in a helicopter it's a pretty fking dangerous way to travel around, but there's no data presented in that article to support the author's claim that bikers are an excessive ,or even significant burden on the NHS.
Lifestyle choices caused by poor diet, excessive drinking, smoking, and lack of exercise are far bigger burdens to our crumbling healthcare system. I'd probably try and make some effort to reduce those larger problems first before going after the most persecuted road users in the UK... But then again, I don't need the revenue from car advertising to keep my lights on, and here we are linking to his article.
In addition, how many of the motorcycle deaths are single vehicle accidents? If the majority of M/C accidnets and deaths are caused by other road uses (4+ wheeled vehicles) then consider their removal to save the MC's king dangerous way to travel around, but there's no data presented in that article to support the author's claim that bikers are an excessive ,or even significant burden on the NHS. Lifestyle choices caused by poor diet, excessive drinking, smoking, and lack of exercise are far bigger burdens to our crumbling healthcare system. I'd probably try and make some effort to reduce those larger problems first before going after the most persecuted road users in the UK... But then again, I don't need the revenue from car advertising to keep my lights on, and here we are linking to his article.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Monday 1st June 16:13
And while the article is somewhat sensationalist, the comment at the end is hanging... What must stop? M/C use or the high death rate?
And as PP says above, far more peole shuffle off for far more manageable reasons.
Finally, car safety systems have transformed passenger car safety. back in the day, what safety features existed in a 1971 Ford Escort? Today, with auto braking, airbags, lane asist etc, the car is a survivial cell. As for bikes, what's changed? Upside down forks and water cooling multivalve heads. Not so great for accident survival.... Great for wheelies however which cars can't do.
There's always an upside.
Good point Prof, I instantly regret linking it!
It's click bait at its best.
"It's got to stop" - What, motorcycling? the deaths?
There are so many ways to present statistics, so we're 60 times more likely to cop it, but by comparing it per billion road miles and relating it back to demonstrating it as such a high percentage. Statistically, the 120 fatalities per billion miles is about 8,500,000 miles per death. Apparently there were 354 deaths last year, does that mean we did 25.5 billion miles in the UK on bikes then!?!
Compared to the 40,000+ Corona deaths,motorcyclist fatalities represent less than 0.00885% of those deaths. Think I'll take my chances on the bike! Adding the NHS stuff in and featuring the most powerful road bike in the pic then has the gall to say he's not having a pop and then adds "as a 2 wheeler myself", wonder if he means the powered kind!?!
It's exactly this sort of nonsense that will have the media in a frenzy over trying to ban stuff. Always there are people trying to tell people how to live their lives. It's the constant interference which will result in the regulation of free will because it becomes 'socially unacceptable'.
Frankly Auto Express has always been the lowest rung of the car editorials anyway, sloppy reporting this imho, seems to be the media all over!
It's click bait at its best.
"It's got to stop" - What, motorcycling? the deaths?
There are so many ways to present statistics, so we're 60 times more likely to cop it, but by comparing it per billion road miles and relating it back to demonstrating it as such a high percentage. Statistically, the 120 fatalities per billion miles is about 8,500,000 miles per death. Apparently there were 354 deaths last year, does that mean we did 25.5 billion miles in the UK on bikes then!?!
Compared to the 40,000+ Corona deaths,motorcyclist fatalities represent less than 0.00885% of those deaths. Think I'll take my chances on the bike! Adding the NHS stuff in and featuring the most powerful road bike in the pic then has the gall to say he's not having a pop and then adds "as a 2 wheeler myself", wonder if he means the powered kind!?!
It's exactly this sort of nonsense that will have the media in a frenzy over trying to ban stuff. Always there are people trying to tell people how to live their lives. It's the constant interference which will result in the regulation of free will because it becomes 'socially unacceptable'.
Frankly Auto Express has always been the lowest rung of the car editorials anyway, sloppy reporting this imho, seems to be the media all over!
NITO said:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/352401/motor...
What a ridiculously sensationalist headline!
The rest of the article is not much better...
"Don’t go thinking I’m starting a motorist vs biker war here....More proof is in DfT data, which tragically reveals that motorcyclists account for under one per cent of road traffic, yet 20 per cent of road deaths. Unacceptable. Unfathomable. Unsustainable. It’s got to stop."
When did 'unsustainable' start to mean 'bad'? What word do we use for something which genuinely can't be sustained as opposed to sustaining itself all too well?What a ridiculously sensationalist headline!
The rest of the article is not much better...
"Don’t go thinking I’m starting a motorist vs biker war here....More proof is in DfT data, which tragically reveals that motorcyclists account for under one per cent of road traffic, yet 20 per cent of road deaths. Unacceptable. Unfathomable. Unsustainable. It’s got to stop."
Steve Bass said:
Finally, car safety systems have transformed passenger car safety. back in the day, what safety features existed in a 1971 Ford Escort? Today, with auto braking, airbags, lane asist etc, the car is a survivial cell. As for bikes, what's changed? Upside down forks and water cooling multivalve heads. Not so great for accident survival.... Great for wheelies however which cars can't do.
There's always an upside.
Modern bikers have access to anti-lock brakes. anti-wheel systems, traction control, better rubber/grip, improved stability, life-saving body-armour, modern crash-tolerant garments, neck-braces, and even airbags.There's always an upside.
I’d feel safer on a 200bhp modern superbike with armour, sticky rubber, and airbag suit versus a 35 year LC wearing jeans, Doc martens and a simple leather jacket.
I read a BBC article few years back that compared the risk of serious injury whilst riding a motorbike v's riding a horse (my ex-wife objected to the bike but wanted our daughter to go riding) and the horse was multiples of the bike (lots of broken necks and backs). Also, the risk of injury skiing v's riding a bike is much much higher for a given period of time participating.
I imagine base jumping is pretty risky, as is flying in a helicopter. It would be safer to stay inside and have Sainsburys deliver my fruit and veg and not go in a car.
My point is that if you class motorbikes as a mode of transport they really don't stack up in any practical sense, but that isn't why people ride them. It's a lifestyle choice, a hobby, an adventure and thought of in that respect then we have to allow people their liberty to choose, or simply ban all dangerous activities. I know riding is good for my mental health and there's always many facets to a story
I imagine base jumping is pretty risky, as is flying in a helicopter. It would be safer to stay inside and have Sainsburys deliver my fruit and veg and not go in a car.
My point is that if you class motorbikes as a mode of transport they really don't stack up in any practical sense, but that isn't why people ride them. It's a lifestyle choice, a hobby, an adventure and thought of in that respect then we have to allow people their liberty to choose, or simply ban all dangerous activities. I know riding is good for my mental health and there's always many facets to a story
Dr Jekyll said:
When did 'unsustainable' start to mean 'bad'? What word do we use for something which genuinely can't be sustained as opposed to sustaining itself all too well?
I guess it depends on how you perceive his comment, "it has to stop". Considering there is absolutely no suggestions from his part on how things might be improved, for me the entire piece is written from a dubious perspective to show bikers in a bad light, as something that can't continue, or is a menace on the roads. It doesn't sound to me like he's be introspective about the role drivers might play, such as checking their facebook accounts while driving, or in Harry Dunn's case, driving on the wrong side of the road! I'm sure a large proportion of bike accidents involve inattentive drivers, there is no mention of drivers at all, the article is talking about risk assessing transport modes, and in that context I read his comments about unsustainable, unfathomable and it has to stop. It's H&S save them from themselves mentality, motorcycling is too risky from a risk assessment perspective and should therefore be stopped, is how I read his comments, bolstered by the sensationalist reporting.
Anyway, twice as many people die annually in cars as on motorcycles, that is all
Edited by NITO on Monday 1st June 16:56
Ridiculous article!!
I suspect that many bikers, me included, do it precisely because it IS risky. I love motorcycling, the adrenaline rush of doing some proper cornering & being able to out-accelerate pretty much everything else.
So either the Grim Reaper will have me whilst I'm thoroughly enjoying myself, or I could hide behind the sofa & live a long, utterly boring life.
I suspect that many bikers, me included, do it precisely because it IS risky. I love motorcycling, the adrenaline rush of doing some proper cornering & being able to out-accelerate pretty much everything else.
So either the Grim Reaper will have me whilst I'm thoroughly enjoying myself, or I could hide behind the sofa & live a long, utterly boring life.
I have two former bikers in my family that both gave it up due to impending fatherhood.
One quit when he realised that 150 mph up the M5 would ultimately lead to his demise.
The other when he became a Pathologist and realised how many ex-Bikers kept turning up at work.
The less sensationalist figures of the time were:
Bikers were 24 times more likely to be killed than other road users, despite bikes only making up half one percent of all traffic.
One quit when he realised that 150 mph up the M5 would ultimately lead to his demise.
The other when he became a Pathologist and realised how many ex-Bikers kept turning up at work.
The less sensationalist figures of the time were:
Bikers were 24 times more likely to be killed than other road users, despite bikes only making up half one percent of all traffic.
cologne2792 said:
The less sensationalist figures of the time were:
Bikers were 24 times more likely to be killed than other road users, despite bikes only making up half one percent of all traffic.
Probably a reflection of how many more drivers used to die before they totally soundproofed themselves away from other road users in super safety cells with widescreen infotainment!Bikers were 24 times more likely to be killed than other road users, despite bikes only making up half one percent of all traffic.
Everyone who rides knows the risks and the potential outcomes, the article is just sensationalist drivel to be honest.
Just a curious aside, how many people would die because of the lack of organ donors from motorcycle casualties? Tongue in cheek, but I bet the net burden of motorcyclists is negligible when this is considered!
Just a curious aside, how many people would die because of the lack of organ donors from motorcycle casualties? Tongue in cheek, but I bet the net burden of motorcyclists is negligible when this is considered!
My first job post-uni was with a medical company with products used in trauma and orthopaedics. Macabre as it now sounds I had to research motorcycle accident stats to understand trends. Accident survivors consumed a lot of our products particularly if surgery was required. All I remember of the findings (it was 40 years ago) was that peaks were in the summer months. Good road surfaces and better weather/light conditions created a false sense of security and riders took greater risks.
PartOfTheProblem said:
Everyone who rides knows the risks and the potential outcomes, the article is just sensationalist drivel to be honest.
Just a curious aside, how many people would die because of the lack of organ donors from motorcycle casualties? Tongue in cheek, but I bet the net burden of motorcyclists is negligible when this is considered!
If we said that 100% of motorcycle riders are organ donors then quite a high percentage, say with 300 motorcycle deaths per year.Just a curious aside, how many people would die because of the lack of organ donors from motorcycle casualties? Tongue in cheek, but I bet the net burden of motorcyclists is negligible when this is considered!
In 2018 just 1,600 people in the UK donated their organs after they died; saving or improving the lives of 3,941 transplant recipients.
I think organ donation should be default ON and you have to opt out instead of the current situation where you need to go out of your way to setup being an donor
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