Is now a good or bad time to start a new business?
Discussion
I was going to post this in the business section but as it is more bike related I figured I would be best asking here?
Being on furlough for 10 weeks has given me time to think and do some planning and for various reasons I am now looking to move away from what I have worked as for the last 20+ years (mechanical engineer) and set up on my own doing something I love and have a passion for.
Given the current shift away from using public transport and more people starting to consider or taking up biking it feels like now would be a good time to put my big boy leather pants on and stride out on my own. And after speaking to a number of bike shops as well as a couple of bike trainers in the area it would appear as though biking in general is pretty alive and healthy at the moment.
In very general and simple terms, what I am looking to do is open up a space where people can bring their bikes and have use of a fully equipped workshop to maintain/bugger about with their own road / race / pit bikes and socialise.
The plan is to have, say 6 bike ramps that can be booked and hired out for day / hour as well as have access to the tools that a typical well set up home mechanic would have too. This would be free for members and charged per hour / day for non members.
I plan to offer memberships for a nominal fee which would give access to various levels of tools and machinery. So basic membership would give you full access to those basic tools plus parts washers etc .., mid level membership would include access to additional things like weld sets, guillotines & benders. With top level adding lathes, milling machines, English wheel etc ...
Of course inductions and training would be given before anyone was allowed to use any machinery or power tools.
In addition to that I would like to offer (possibly) free classes to riders who have just passed their CBT or bike tests and cover basic bike maintenance with them.
I'd also run courses on tig / mig welding which would be priced sensibly.
I am lucky that I also have good ties with close friend who runs his own detailing business as well as decent contacts with guys in the vinyl wrapping, bodyshop and powder coating businesses and I could offer their services.
There are many of these `maker place' type things that sort of service this area, but they are generally just glue and glitter type hotch potch type places rather than something more dedicated to bikers. The only place that I am currently aware of that does the same thing is based down country from me and from what I can gather from speaking to them, is doing pretty well.
Thoughts?
Being on furlough for 10 weeks has given me time to think and do some planning and for various reasons I am now looking to move away from what I have worked as for the last 20+ years (mechanical engineer) and set up on my own doing something I love and have a passion for.
Given the current shift away from using public transport and more people starting to consider or taking up biking it feels like now would be a good time to put my big boy leather pants on and stride out on my own. And after speaking to a number of bike shops as well as a couple of bike trainers in the area it would appear as though biking in general is pretty alive and healthy at the moment.
In very general and simple terms, what I am looking to do is open up a space where people can bring their bikes and have use of a fully equipped workshop to maintain/bugger about with their own road / race / pit bikes and socialise.
The plan is to have, say 6 bike ramps that can be booked and hired out for day / hour as well as have access to the tools that a typical well set up home mechanic would have too. This would be free for members and charged per hour / day for non members.
I plan to offer memberships for a nominal fee which would give access to various levels of tools and machinery. So basic membership would give you full access to those basic tools plus parts washers etc .., mid level membership would include access to additional things like weld sets, guillotines & benders. With top level adding lathes, milling machines, English wheel etc ...
Of course inductions and training would be given before anyone was allowed to use any machinery or power tools.
In addition to that I would like to offer (possibly) free classes to riders who have just passed their CBT or bike tests and cover basic bike maintenance with them.
I'd also run courses on tig / mig welding which would be priced sensibly.
I am lucky that I also have good ties with close friend who runs his own detailing business as well as decent contacts with guys in the vinyl wrapping, bodyshop and powder coating businesses and I could offer their services.
There are many of these `maker place' type things that sort of service this area, but they are generally just glue and glitter type hotch potch type places rather than something more dedicated to bikers. The only place that I am currently aware of that does the same thing is based down country from me and from what I can gather from speaking to them, is doing pretty well.
Thoughts?
Be very very sure of your numbers before you do it. It sounds like a great idea, but how much money can you realistically regularly pull in against the costs?
Another poster has pointed out it's been very difficult for people to do with cars, and bikes are more likely to be worked on at home as they take up less space.
Might work better as an idea if you had a full time garage business to pay the bills, then a few evenings/weekend do a "Tea and a tinker" session where the income from users only really needs to cover the overheads for a couple of hours.
Not trying to s
t on your idea, I really, really would like to see something like this work and would be delighted for you to prove me wrong, but I'm struggling to see how it could make ends meet.
Another poster has pointed out it's been very difficult for people to do with cars, and bikes are more likely to be worked on at home as they take up less space.
Might work better as an idea if you had a full time garage business to pay the bills, then a few evenings/weekend do a "Tea and a tinker" session where the income from users only really needs to cover the overheads for a couple of hours.
Not trying to s
t on your idea, I really, really would like to see something like this work and would be delighted for you to prove me wrong, but I'm struggling to see how it could make ends meet.I've thought about doing similar for cars as I already have ramps etc
The problems I found were:
Insurance - if anyone hurts themselves
Theft - of tools etc
It needs someone on site 9-5 (or whatever hours)
When you compare all that to simply £55/hr as a mechanic it doesn't stack up unless you have a lot of customers
I'd love it to work but there are very few car places renting a ramp and I'm unaware of any bike places - I joined the TRF and members share tools / help each other, I suspect it's the same with many other groups too.
I'd look long and hard as even with free premises it doesn't work IMO
The problems I found were:
Insurance - if anyone hurts themselves
Theft - of tools etc
It needs someone on site 9-5 (or whatever hours)
When you compare all that to simply £55/hr as a mechanic it doesn't stack up unless you have a lot of customers
I'd love it to work but there are very few car places renting a ramp and I'm unaware of any bike places - I joined the TRF and members share tools / help each other, I suspect it's the same with many other groups too.
I'd look long and hard as even with free premises it doesn't work IMO
lukeyman said:
Have you seen the place near Hinckley by any chance?
I spoke to them the other day as I'm tempted... but I'm nearly an hour away. However, they said someone travels from Essex to use their facilities!
I've just taken VR so also mulling things over!
I have, and I have spoken to them and discussed quite a few things with them too which is why I have started to look at things a lot more seriously rather than just think 'I'd love to do that' but never end up doing it.I spoke to them the other day as I'm tempted... but I'm nearly an hour away. However, they said someone travels from Essex to use their facilities!
I've just taken VR so also mulling things over!
I havent got right down to firm numbers, but from the business plan I'm putting together and the figures I have drafted up it appears to work on paper.
I know my one big hurdle will be with the insurance seeing as though members of the public will be coming in to a workshop environment, but if I structure things correctly I can hopefully overcome that hurdle. I'm well used to creating SOP's and such like already so that part doesnt scare me.
I too have seen these car ramp places come and go, but what I plan to do will be structured a little differently.
I'm quite lucky in that I know a couple of lads who race at a good level and from speaking to them they said that they and other lads they have raced with struggles to find somewhere decent to work out of and even at the level they race at now they would still use somewhere like what I am planning and what is already down in Hinkley, intact the place down south already has a decent customer base of lads prepping race bikes of different types.
As far as funding goes, I have family links with a company that provides start up funding so that base is covered too.
Before I make any big commitments I am going to go over and over the figures to make sure that what I think will work. Will actually work.
V8RX7 said:
lukeyman said:
Have you seen the place near Hinckley by any chance?
Link or name ?https://the-machine-shop.co.uk/
Would you consider offering storage too? Could be an attractive option.
Are you qualified to teach? Or have contacts that are?
FWIW, I think it's a great idea. And, from a facebook post I saw, it looks like the above might be considering another site. Is that with you?
lukeyman said:
At the risk of offending the OP...
https://the-machine-shop.co.uk/
Would you consider offering storage too? Could be an attractive option.
Are you qualified to teach? Or have contacts that are?
FWIW, I think it's a great idea. And, from a facebook post I saw, it looks like the above might be considering another site. Is that with you?
No offence taken. Im well aware of them and what they do is what i will be striving to achieve. It was Bob from the machine shop that I spoke to.https://the-machine-shop.co.uk/
Would you consider offering storage too? Could be an attractive option.
Are you qualified to teach? Or have contacts that are?
FWIW, I think it's a great idea. And, from a facebook post I saw, it looks like the above might be considering another site. Is that with you?
I'm not qualified to teach no, but I am tig welding certified and experienced mig welder too. I also have good contacts with welding engineers too.
Depending on the size of the unit I end up in (I have my eye on a couole) if there is space to fit a mezzanine, storage may be an option.
You'd probably have to have an annual membership fee, deposit to cover tool "losses" and breakages, lockable and aasily accountable tool supplies, a small store to sell consumables such as clips, wiring, sprays, fasteners, etc, internet access (wifi) to look up "how to" guides, and a booking system. Even with a well-organised setup and daily use fees + storage, you'd likely often run into problems where bikes are left for months, or never repaired, thefts, accidents, etc. With so many factors that would add running costs to your business, it could be difficult to make a profit after covering rent and staffing costs.
It's a nice idea, but from having seen how U.S. military auto maintenance workshops are run and the problems they face, even with well -disciplined military personel, the reality with average Joes, would likely be that most of your club members or users wouldn't easily afford to pay the going rates for bike shops to do the work for them, so you could end up being the lowest possible denominator.
Targeting that area of the market tends to bring the most troublesome customers.
Being an enthusiast who similarly tries to help others, what I have most often found myself challenged by is inexperience leading to compounding problems, lost tools and people losing interest, after their initial enthusiasm. There's no substitute for experience.
You'd be facing an uphill struggle if you'd need to make an income to live off, I think...
Maybe consider buying, doing up and selling bikes - even that is a hard way to make a living. There's more money in doing this with cars, since the market is bigger, but now is probably the worst time to set up as such... You might have more success in teaching courses in motorcycle maintenance online, if you can get a large enough audience.
Good luck.
It's a nice idea, but from having seen how U.S. military auto maintenance workshops are run and the problems they face, even with well -disciplined military personel, the reality with average Joes, would likely be that most of your club members or users wouldn't easily afford to pay the going rates for bike shops to do the work for them, so you could end up being the lowest possible denominator.
Targeting that area of the market tends to bring the most troublesome customers.
Being an enthusiast who similarly tries to help others, what I have most often found myself challenged by is inexperience leading to compounding problems, lost tools and people losing interest, after their initial enthusiasm. There's no substitute for experience.
You'd be facing an uphill struggle if you'd need to make an income to live off, I think...
Maybe consider buying, doing up and selling bikes - even that is a hard way to make a living. There's more money in doing this with cars, since the market is bigger, but now is probably the worst time to set up as such... You might have more success in teaching courses in motorcycle maintenance online, if you can get a large enough audience.
Good luck.
Edited by Petrolism on Wednesday 17th June 03:30
There's this mob in Sydney who do exactly what you are proposing: https://www.risingsunworkshop.com (although they also have the cafe/restaurant now which seems to be a large focus of the business). It seems to go quite well. It is located in the inner city in an area where people would be lacking in off street parking and would be trying to work on their bikes in a back lane or on the footpath. On the face of it very hipster-cafe-racer-scrambler scene but there always seemed to be a fairly wide range of bikes parked about and up on the lifts whenever I was going by. Looked into using them a while ago and they usually seemed to be reasonably well booked out, particularly the various courses they run. I didn't end up joining myself as I was only looking into as I was sick of having to do stuff in my apartment car space, but wasn't really doing enough work on my bike myself to justify the membership cost.
Now is a good time to start an online business, but your idea? I'm not sure.
It sounds like a great idea, but once you work out the foot traffic and membership fee, you might reconsider your business plan.
It's tough. I started a business last November, and haven't made a profit yet, but we're doing well sales wise. We'll be in our 2nd year before we make a profit for sure, but we prepared for that.
As everyone said above, stuff will go missing, even friends of mine that work at dealerships have their tools go missing all the time, from staff thieving. So you will need a busy area, lots of people willing to pay, and something to add value like edumacation or courses etc.
But. No risk no reward. Good luck.
It sounds like a great idea, but once you work out the foot traffic and membership fee, you might reconsider your business plan.
It's tough. I started a business last November, and haven't made a profit yet, but we're doing well sales wise. We'll be in our 2nd year before we make a profit for sure, but we prepared for that.
As everyone said above, stuff will go missing, even friends of mine that work at dealerships have their tools go missing all the time, from staff thieving. So you will need a busy area, lots of people willing to pay, and something to add value like edumacation or courses etc.
But. No risk no reward. Good luck.
The Oval Motorcycle Centre in London had 6 bays. Self service with 1 trained mechanic on site.
The theory’s was good but in practice wasn’t so good.
We had to wait ages for the mechanic to do a round and get back to us that a simple job took ages.
Cost £25/hr which was fine. I did valve clearances and fork seals. Something I wouldn’t try myself.
It took a whole day where a qualified mechanic would take half that so you didn’t save money. It was just the experience of it all.
Summer was busy. Winter was DEAD.
They had to store bikes to have a back up income but eventually failed.
It lasted around 4-6 years.
The other issue was that people would see the mechanic as a friend and regularly pop in for sts and giggles. This slowed down the process even further.
I eventually just paid a mobile mechanic to service my bikes at home. Soooooo much better and I didn’t waste a day doing it myself.
The theory’s was good but in practice wasn’t so good.
We had to wait ages for the mechanic to do a round and get back to us that a simple job took ages.
Cost £25/hr which was fine. I did valve clearances and fork seals. Something I wouldn’t try myself.
It took a whole day where a qualified mechanic would take half that so you didn’t save money. It was just the experience of it all.
Summer was busy. Winter was DEAD.
They had to store bikes to have a back up income but eventually failed.
It lasted around 4-6 years.
The other issue was that people would see the mechanic as a friend and regularly pop in for s
ts and giggles. This slowed down the process even further. I eventually just paid a mobile mechanic to service my bikes at home. Soooooo much better and I didn’t waste a day doing it myself.
I think that the thing that would make this work is the cafe/community part of this. If you can make it a destination for rideouts as well as the other options then I think you have a shot. Making sure that you have multiple income streams would be key IMHO - courses, training, workshop etc. But the cafe piece will give people who just want to nose around a reason to spend money. Maybe some basic clothing..?
The issues as mentioned above will be labour and theft. Running a cafe needs people.
For theft the tools could probably be dealt with by a fairly simple colour coded tool rack that needs to be full when they start and full when they leave or something along those lines.
But when vans are targeted for their tools, a unit with lots of tools and potentially bikes in will need to be pretty damn secure.
The other aspect is the seasonality.
I used to work in a dealership a very long time ago and one day our sum total sale was a spark plug and that was in a multi-brand dealership in the depths of winter. That's when you need to be running the courses etc though I supposet he hope would be that the racers would be busy fettling their bikes for the new season..?
The issues as mentioned above will be labour and theft. Running a cafe needs people.
For theft the tools could probably be dealt with by a fairly simple colour coded tool rack that needs to be full when they start and full when they leave or something along those lines.
But when vans are targeted for their tools, a unit with lots of tools and potentially bikes in will need to be pretty damn secure.
The other aspect is the seasonality.
I used to work in a dealership a very long time ago and one day our sum total sale was a spark plug and that was in a multi-brand dealership in the depths of winter. That's when you need to be running the courses etc though I supposet he hope would be that the racers would be busy fettling their bikes for the new season..?
2ndclasscitizen said:
There's this mob in Sydney who do exactly what you are proposing: https://www.risingsunworkshop.com (although they also have the cafe/restaurant now which seems to be a large focus of the business).
The Cafe part usually makes the most money IME !Near me Caffine & Machine set up - helped by it's location but it's very busy even in winter (at least on the dry days that I've been past)
lukeyman said:
Interesting... I suspect all the members are very local, I'm 30 mins away, have been in the car industry for 30 years, go to many shows and on many forums and I've never heard of them.I note their very long opening hours - great for customers, not so much for staff costs.
I hope they do well but I suspect margins are tight
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