Newbie Advice Please
Discussion
So I did my CBT just before the lockdown, and have struggled with any sort of practice since. With the current situation, the likelihood of booking the full test anytime soon is unlikely, so I bit the bullet and bought a CB125R to get some mileage under my belt.
I'm enjoying it - 80 miles in - but feel like a complete novice. It also seems L plates are also the proverbial red rag to car drivers, even though I keep pace with traffic, which is a little intimidating when I'm used to driving a big metal box.
I do a fair amount of car track days and racing, so it's quite humbling to have absolutely no idea what I'm doing! One of the things I wanted to ask is whether I can do the equivalent of 'heel and toe' to smooth down changes (i.e. do I blip throttle between gears)? At the moment I'm too scared to try it!
Despite the CB125R having great reviews, corners are also somewhat of a challenge for me - the bike doesn't want to turn. Alas, I realise I am the problem. I am working on maintaining position in the middle of the road no matter the corner radius. Tips please! Do I lean more using my arse? Should I put more pressure through the handles? Should I just trust in the bike more? I'm not sure how much movement I should be expected to do with bodyweight, which is a concern given bikes are only going to get heavier as I progress.
Any newbie tips appreciated!
I'm enjoying it - 80 miles in - but feel like a complete novice. It also seems L plates are also the proverbial red rag to car drivers, even though I keep pace with traffic, which is a little intimidating when I'm used to driving a big metal box.
I do a fair amount of car track days and racing, so it's quite humbling to have absolutely no idea what I'm doing! One of the things I wanted to ask is whether I can do the equivalent of 'heel and toe' to smooth down changes (i.e. do I blip throttle between gears)? At the moment I'm too scared to try it!
Despite the CB125R having great reviews, corners are also somewhat of a challenge for me - the bike doesn't want to turn. Alas, I realise I am the problem. I am working on maintaining position in the middle of the road no matter the corner radius. Tips please! Do I lean more using my arse? Should I put more pressure through the handles? Should I just trust in the bike more? I'm not sure how much movement I should be expected to do with bodyweight, which is a concern given bikes are only going to get heavier as I progress.
Any newbie tips appreciated!
Could I recommend this video on blipping:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DZnZRRHCNc
And also could I also recommend you watch the amazing 'twist of the wrist' which I learned a lot from and number 2 as well. I won't link to it but you can get a copy or find it on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DZnZRRHCNc
And also could I also recommend you watch the amazing 'twist of the wrist' which I learned a lot from and number 2 as well. I won't link to it but you can get a copy or find it on youtube.
Don't worry about being a novice, we've all been there. Most importantly don't ever be made to feel you must ride outside of your comfort zone, no matter what you think other road users might be thinking.
Re blipping, yes you can and many do but it's really just for the sound as you really don't need to. In fact most bikes will change gear without a clutch if you get your timing right. I wouldn't bother with that for a while though!
Re cornering, was it a new bike? The reason I ask is that worn types can make a huge difference to how a bike turns. If the rear is flattened off across the middle (from lots of upright riding) then it'll be a pig to turn and new tyres would make a huge change. Similarly if the tyres are under pressure it'll be slow to turn.
Moving your weight around on the bike will help, but again probably only once you're really building experience. For now, do as you describe and perhaps just try shifting your bum.
More experienced riders often learn to counter-steer. I do when I'm going faster but don't usually bother on my larger bike. Basically when you want to turn left you tweek the bars right as you enter the corner. This will have the effect of pushing the weight of the bike over to the left thereby beginning to lean it in to a bend and at which point you start turning left. Opposite for right turns obviously.
Finally, you need to be relaxed. If you're tense or rigid cornering becomes very difficult. You need to be supple, relaxed and go with the flow.
I recommend reading a book called "A Twist of The Wrist" by Keith Code. A fantastic book of how to build your techniques from novice right through to more experienced riding.
Re blipping, yes you can and many do but it's really just for the sound as you really don't need to. In fact most bikes will change gear without a clutch if you get your timing right. I wouldn't bother with that for a while though!
Re cornering, was it a new bike? The reason I ask is that worn types can make a huge difference to how a bike turns. If the rear is flattened off across the middle (from lots of upright riding) then it'll be a pig to turn and new tyres would make a huge change. Similarly if the tyres are under pressure it'll be slow to turn.
Moving your weight around on the bike will help, but again probably only once you're really building experience. For now, do as you describe and perhaps just try shifting your bum.
More experienced riders often learn to counter-steer. I do when I'm going faster but don't usually bother on my larger bike. Basically when you want to turn left you tweek the bars right as you enter the corner. This will have the effect of pushing the weight of the bike over to the left thereby beginning to lean it in to a bend and at which point you start turning left. Opposite for right turns obviously.
Finally, you need to be relaxed. If you're tense or rigid cornering becomes very difficult. You need to be supple, relaxed and go with the flow.
I recommend reading a book called "A Twist of The Wrist" by Keith Code. A fantastic book of how to build your techniques from novice right through to more experienced riding.
I’d be tempted to take the L plates off.
You are right that they are a red rag to lots of car drivers even when you are riding smoothly and at the same pace as traffic.
I know it’s easier said than done but relaxing is a big part of the bike doing what you want.
Keep your elbows bent and look where you want to go. Body position will come with more time in the seat.
You are right that they are a red rag to lots of car drivers even when you are riding smoothly and at the same pace as traffic.
I know it’s easier said than done but relaxing is a big part of the bike doing what you want.
Keep your elbows bent and look where you want to go. Body position will come with more time in the seat.
As for the cornering the key thing as trickywoo says is look where you want to go. You will countersteer without knowing it over a low level of MPH in order to turn the bike into the corner, but try it consciously. You don't need much of a push on the bars to get the bike turning. The Keith Code book is good.
thelostboy said:
So I did my CBT just before the lockdown, and have struggled with any sort of practice since. With the current situation, the likelihood of booking the full test anytime soon is unlikely, so I bit the bullet and bought a CB125R to get some mileage under my belt.
I'm enjoying it - 80 miles in - but feel like a complete novice. It also seems L plates are also the proverbial red rag to car drivers, even though I keep pace with traffic, which is a little intimidating when I'm used to driving a big metal box.
I do a fair amount of car track days and racing, so it's quite humbling to have absolutely no idea what I'm doing! One of the things I wanted to ask is whether I can do the equivalent of 'heel and toe' to smooth down changes (i.e. do I blip throttle between gears)? At the moment I'm too scared to try it!
Despite the CB125R having great reviews, corners are also somewhat of a challenge for me - the bike doesn't want to turn. Alas, I realise I am the problem. I am working on maintaining position in the middle of the road no matter the corner radius. Tips please! Do I lean more using my arse? Should I put more pressure through the handles? Should I just trust in the bike more? I'm not sure how much movement I should be expected to do with bodyweight, which is a concern given bikes are only going to get heavier as I progress.
Any newbie tips appreciated!
Welcome to the party. I bought the same bike in September and have since passed mod one on big bike. Whilst I impatiently wait I’ve covered about 600 miles and it becomes more intuitive quickly I found. That said I’ve had a couple of full days training at least and passed mod one....I'm enjoying it - 80 miles in - but feel like a complete novice. It also seems L plates are also the proverbial red rag to car drivers, even though I keep pace with traffic, which is a little intimidating when I'm used to driving a big metal box.
I do a fair amount of car track days and racing, so it's quite humbling to have absolutely no idea what I'm doing! One of the things I wanted to ask is whether I can do the equivalent of 'heel and toe' to smooth down changes (i.e. do I blip throttle between gears)? At the moment I'm too scared to try it!
Despite the CB125R having great reviews, corners are also somewhat of a challenge for me - the bike doesn't want to turn. Alas, I realise I am the problem. I am working on maintaining position in the middle of the road no matter the corner radius. Tips please! Do I lean more using my arse? Should I put more pressure through the handles? Should I just trust in the bike more? I'm not sure how much movement I should be expected to do with bodyweight, which is a concern given bikes are only going to get heavier as I progress.
Any newbie tips appreciated!
I watched videos on YouTube including the twist of the wrist mentioned (bits of it anyway).
I think roadcraft Nottingham youtube is good.
Worth a look into counter steering in my opinion, the 125R corners nicely at pace I’m finding. Though I’m much more cautious as the conditions worsen.
I have found practicing in car parks to be good. And up north getting out onto country lanes has been less aggro than city driving.
Best of luck!
Edited by vindaloo79 on Thursday 19th November 23:49
With regards to rev-matching, absolutely start to learn this. You can feed the clutch a bit gently at lower RPM without blipping, but at higher RPM you'll want to blip the throttle on downshifts. You might find initially you squeeze the brake a bit harder as you blip, so work on finding a good way of holding the throttle while squeezing the bake; me, I prefer to use my outer three fingers for braking, and leave my index and thumb wrapped aorund the throttle.
Like in a car, you'll get a feel for how much to blip given the revs and road speed. It's a good technique to have become second-nature / instinctive because a locking rear wheel on a bike can be a little bit alarming!
Note that many high-performance bikes come equipped with slipper clutches, which limit the amount of engine braking to the rear wheel; however not all bikes have this and in any case a clutch slipping is a clutch wearing.
The technique is really quite simple; clutch in, downshift, blip throttle as clutch is being released. In time you'll do it as one full fluid synchronized action, much like heel-and-toe.
The key to confidence on a bike is just the same as confidence in a car - miles and time.
Leave your L-plates on; it is a legal requirement and in the event of any incident you dont want to have that against you as you could lose out. Practice riding in a more assertive manner - occupying the middle of your lane, moving around in your lane to get the best view of the road ahead...being on a bike we have this wonderful luxury of having all this extra space, so use it!
With cornering, look where you want to go, keep your arms relaxed as stiff arms prevent the tiny movements of the handlebars. use your body; I find it helps to sort of lead with my shoulder, if you see what I mean. Also just double check things like tyre pressures and state of suspension components - these can have an adverse effect on handling. Again, miles and time, you'll get there. I remember my first ride on my SV650s I was very nervous and very cautious. These days I just sling it in and use my weight and the physics of countersteering (push on the inside handlebar / pull on the outside handlebar and the bike will do whatever you like really).
Like in a car, you'll get a feel for how much to blip given the revs and road speed. It's a good technique to have become second-nature / instinctive because a locking rear wheel on a bike can be a little bit alarming!
Note that many high-performance bikes come equipped with slipper clutches, which limit the amount of engine braking to the rear wheel; however not all bikes have this and in any case a clutch slipping is a clutch wearing.
The technique is really quite simple; clutch in, downshift, blip throttle as clutch is being released. In time you'll do it as one full fluid synchronized action, much like heel-and-toe.
The key to confidence on a bike is just the same as confidence in a car - miles and time.
Leave your L-plates on; it is a legal requirement and in the event of any incident you dont want to have that against you as you could lose out. Practice riding in a more assertive manner - occupying the middle of your lane, moving around in your lane to get the best view of the road ahead...being on a bike we have this wonderful luxury of having all this extra space, so use it!
With cornering, look where you want to go, keep your arms relaxed as stiff arms prevent the tiny movements of the handlebars. use your body; I find it helps to sort of lead with my shoulder, if you see what I mean. Also just double check things like tyre pressures and state of suspension components - these can have an adverse effect on handling. Again, miles and time, you'll get there. I remember my first ride on my SV650s I was very nervous and very cautious. These days I just sling it in and use my weight and the physics of countersteering (push on the inside handlebar / pull on the outside handlebar and the bike will do whatever you like really).
Edited by thatdude on Friday 20th November 08:24
Edited by thatdude on Friday 20th November 08:26
zzrman said:
As for the cornering the key thing as trickywoo says is look where you want to go. You will countersteer without knowing it over a low level of MPH in order to turn the bike into the corner, but try it consciously. You don't need much of a push on the bars to get the bike turning. The Keith Code book is good.
This is the best advice you'll ever get. Look where you want to go, whatever else is happening, And, by look, that's not just 10 meters ahead but look at the vanishing point. (That's the point in the distance where you can no longer see the route you want to take because it goes over the horizon or is obscured by a bend/obstacle.Don't worry about any other part of cornering, beyond, don't brake in a corner unless you really have no other choice, Just look! Everything else will happen naturally.
thatdude said:
With regards to rev-matching, absolutely start to learn this. You can feed the clutch a bit gently at lower RPM without blipping, but at higher RPM you'll want to blip the throttle on downshifts. You might find initially you squeeze the brake a bit harder as you blip, so work on finding a good way of holding the throttle while squeezing the bake; me, I prefer to use my outer three fingers for braking, and leave my index and thumb wrapped aorund the throttle.
Like in a car, you'll get a feel for how much to blip given the revs and road speed. It's a good technique to have become second-nature / instinctive because a locking rear wheel on a bike can be a little bit alarming!
Note that many high-performance bikes come equipped with slipper clutches, which limit the amount of engine braking to the rear wheel; however not all bikes have this and in any case a clutch slipping is a clutch wearing.
The technique is really quite simple; clutch in, downshift, blip throttle as clutch is being released. In time you'll do it as one full fluid synchronized action, much like heel-and-toe.
The key to confidence on a bike is just the same as confidence in a car - miles and time.
Leave your L-plates on; it is a legal requirement and in the event of any incident you dont want to have that against you as you could lose out. Practice riding in a more assertive manner - occupying the middle of your lane, moving around in your lane to get the best view of the road ahead...being on a bike we have this wonderful luxury of having all this extra space, so use it!
With cornering, look where you want to go, keep your arms relaxed as stiff arms prevent the tiny movements of the handlebars. use your body; I find it helps to sort of lead with my shoulder, if you see what I mean. Also just double check things like tyre pressures and state of suspension components - these can have an adverse effect on handling. Again, miles and time, you'll get there. I remember my first ride on my SV650s I was very nervous and very cautious. These days I just sling it in and use my weight and the physics of countersteering (push on the inside handlebar / pull on the outside handlebar and the bike will do whatever you like really).
Fantastic advice. Like in a car, you'll get a feel for how much to blip given the revs and road speed. It's a good technique to have become second-nature / instinctive because a locking rear wheel on a bike can be a little bit alarming!
Note that many high-performance bikes come equipped with slipper clutches, which limit the amount of engine braking to the rear wheel; however not all bikes have this and in any case a clutch slipping is a clutch wearing.
The technique is really quite simple; clutch in, downshift, blip throttle as clutch is being released. In time you'll do it as one full fluid synchronized action, much like heel-and-toe.
The key to confidence on a bike is just the same as confidence in a car - miles and time.
Leave your L-plates on; it is a legal requirement and in the event of any incident you dont want to have that against you as you could lose out. Practice riding in a more assertive manner - occupying the middle of your lane, moving around in your lane to get the best view of the road ahead...being on a bike we have this wonderful luxury of having all this extra space, so use it!
With cornering, look where you want to go, keep your arms relaxed as stiff arms prevent the tiny movements of the handlebars. use your body; I find it helps to sort of lead with my shoulder, if you see what I mean. Also just double check things like tyre pressures and state of suspension components - these can have an adverse effect on handling. Again, miles and time, you'll get there. I remember my first ride on my SV650s I was very nervous and very cautious. These days I just sling it in and use my weight and the physics of countersteering (push on the inside handlebar / pull on the outside handlebar and the bike will do whatever you like really).
Edited by thatdude on Friday 20th November 08:24
Edited by thatdude on Friday 20th November 08:26
Definitely leave the L plates on to avoid any trouble with the police and also to warn other road users you're new. The key to not getting mugged on the road is too confidently take up the space in the lane. Never ride in the gutter on the outer part of the lane as you'll encourage cars to perform dangerous overtakes/undertakes.
Learning on a small bike is needed until you can manage a bikes power but in other ways is more difficult as cars will see you as an obstacle to overtake and smaller bikes have far worse brakes, cornering ability (generally) and can't use power to escape problems.
just ride more - CBT and 80 miles is basically zero time riding.
Get out and ride the thing
You are likely task saturated with the basic controls. Do more miles - everything will come more naturally when the mechanic of controling the bike just happen without you thinking about it
And then the standard things - Look where you want to go in the bends, use counter steering (ie gently press the bar on the side you want to turn to), dont worry about matching the revs when changing gears - its not this that is making you uncomfortable.
Get out and ride the thing
You are likely task saturated with the basic controls. Do more miles - everything will come more naturally when the mechanic of controling the bike just happen without you thinking about it
And then the standard things - Look where you want to go in the bends, use counter steering (ie gently press the bar on the side you want to turn to), dont worry about matching the revs when changing gears - its not this that is making you uncomfortable.
I've managed double your ride length there or there abouts and in the last 20 miles or so, I've noticed that I'm a much more confident rider. You will naturally get better. You were probably the same when first driving but it's not possible to fall off a car on bends and it's something more to think about. That and your left foot and hand have now swapped roles!
One thing that did help me in cornering was very slightly tilting my head into the corner. Not a lot, just a bit of a tilt. I seemed to be wanting to push myself back up straight when going around corners and the little extra tilt just seemed to help me understand the bike and feel more comfortable. Your mileage may vary on that though.
Heed the advice above. Ignore the people behind you. If you get into a fluster, you'll slow yourself down or make a mistake. Beeping and flashing is just that, noise and lights. It can't hurt you. If it's safe, raise a hand and apologise then make sure you do everything correctly. I teach people various things in the same way: focus on getting it right then look at doing it faster.
One thing that did help me in cornering was very slightly tilting my head into the corner. Not a lot, just a bit of a tilt. I seemed to be wanting to push myself back up straight when going around corners and the little extra tilt just seemed to help me understand the bike and feel more comfortable. Your mileage may vary on that though.
Heed the advice above. Ignore the people behind you. If you get into a fluster, you'll slow yourself down or make a mistake. Beeping and flashing is just that, noise and lights. It can't hurt you. If it's safe, raise a hand and apologise then make sure you do everything correctly. I teach people various things in the same way: focus on getting it right then look at doing it faster.
black-k1 said:
This is the best advice you'll ever get. Look where you want to go, whatever else is happening, And, by look, that's not just 10 meters ahead but look at the vanishing point. (That's the point in the distance where you can no longer see the route you want to take because it goes over the horizon or is obscured by a bend/obstacle.
Don't worry about any other part of cornering, beyond, don't brake in a corner unless you really have no other choice, Just look! Everything else will happen naturally.
Yes indeed. At some point you are likely to misjudge a corner and go in too fast and panic - either a bit or a lot or somewhere in between. The panic reaction is to stiffen your grip on the bars - thereby making it more difficult to turn them - and look at what you might hit. Most bike accidents are single vehicle accidents i.e. no one else involved, and one classic example is going in too fast for a RH bend. Rather than continuing to look as far through the corner as you can i.e. where you want to go, the rider looks at what he might hit and surprise surprise he hits it.Don't worry about any other part of cornering, beyond, don't brake in a corner unless you really have no other choice, Just look! Everything else will happen naturally.
The bike is most likely capable of getting you round the corner even at what may seem an excessive speed. The only thing holding the bike back is the monkey sitting on it.
Dont be intimidated. On a straight you should be riding where the driver sits in a car, For corners relax, get your gear changes done before the corner and take as wide sweep as you can ( for left hands bends start near the white line and go towards the kerb as you go left, for right hand bends start near the kerb and slowly go towards the white line as you come out of the bend but watch out for traffic coming towards you straying on to your side) drop your shoulder and press through the footpeg ( right hand turns right peg etc)
roadcraft Nottingham as mentioned by vindaloo
dave moss (fitting the bike to you), canyon chasers - lots of little nuggets out there
see what works for you, even after 37 years I'll try something new especially following an accident i had
you could also obtain a copy of roadcraft - the new one is out now - a bit dry but some useful information in it
dave moss (fitting the bike to you), canyon chasers - lots of little nuggets out there
see what works for you, even after 37 years I'll try something new especially following an accident i had
you could also obtain a copy of roadcraft - the new one is out now - a bit dry but some useful information in it
There's a bit of cornering and vanishing point from Nottingham Roadcraft in that video, including an example of where positioning in a corner can make a difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Baz9Ul1kI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Baz9Ul1kI
I took my cbt in June, got my 125 in July so I'm still relatively new to it all. A lot has been covered already but my recent experience is;
Look where you want to go, so simple but as others have said - target fixation. This is applicable for all speeds
You're already counter-steering, it's just an unconscious thing. Next time you are out in decent conditions just start to play with pushing the bars, see how it feels, how the bike reacts to your inputs.
Loose and relaxed arms make a big difference
Don't cover the brake, I got in to the habit of doing it and although it didn't cause me any harm it could have done. Grabbing a fistful of front brake mid-corner is going to end up badly
There are loads of videos on roadcraft, as above roadcraft nottingham I have found very useful
Get the miles in and it will come, I was quite cautious and slow on bends initially, getting used to the bike and how it feels is part of it along with getting yourself comfortable with all the inputs, method of control etc. I'm certainly no riding god with a lot to learn still but you'll surprise yourself how quickly you can pick it up, now I really enjoy keeping the momentum up through a set of bends and feel pretty comfortable with most roads.
Remember cbt is very light touch, some lessons on a big bike will also really help.
Look where you want to go, so simple but as others have said - target fixation. This is applicable for all speeds
You're already counter-steering, it's just an unconscious thing. Next time you are out in decent conditions just start to play with pushing the bars, see how it feels, how the bike reacts to your inputs.
Loose and relaxed arms make a big difference
Don't cover the brake, I got in to the habit of doing it and although it didn't cause me any harm it could have done. Grabbing a fistful of front brake mid-corner is going to end up badly
There are loads of videos on roadcraft, as above roadcraft nottingham I have found very useful
Get the miles in and it will come, I was quite cautious and slow on bends initially, getting used to the bike and how it feels is part of it along with getting yourself comfortable with all the inputs, method of control etc. I'm certainly no riding god with a lot to learn still but you'll surprise yourself how quickly you can pick it up, now I really enjoy keeping the momentum up through a set of bends and feel pretty comfortable with most roads.
Remember cbt is very light touch, some lessons on a big bike will also really help.
Countersteer.
Contrary to all the gods on here, I really struggled with cornering by leaning and looking where I wanted to go. It wasn't until I started doing conscious countersteer that corners worked for me.
I do wonder if it depends how you ride - I'd been taught to grip the bike with my thighs and have my arms relaxed.
twist f the wrist 2 is good but for gods sake dont buy the book.
Contrary to all the gods on here, I really struggled with cornering by leaning and looking where I wanted to go. It wasn't until I started doing conscious countersteer that corners worked for me.
I do wonder if it depends how you ride - I'd been taught to grip the bike with my thighs and have my arms relaxed.
twist f the wrist 2 is good but for gods sake dont buy the book.
Thanks everyone for taking the time.
I added the book to my Christmas list anyway, no harm!
I've been on a few rides and got used to doing the blip on the downshifts. In fairness, a lot easier than heel and toe, and pretty satisfying, even with a weedy 125.
I am more confident out on the road in terms of steering. I can't say I am really feeling like the counter steering is a gamechanger, but I I watched videos people have recommended and will keep at it.
My slow manoeuvres are still pretty amateur, but I'm definitely better. Just hoping for some more clear days!
I added the book to my Christmas list anyway, no harm!
I've been on a few rides and got used to doing the blip on the downshifts. In fairness, a lot easier than heel and toe, and pretty satisfying, even with a weedy 125.
I am more confident out on the road in terms of steering. I can't say I am really feeling like the counter steering is a gamechanger, but I I watched videos people have recommended and will keep at it.
My slow manoeuvres are still pretty amateur, but I'm definitely better. Just hoping for some more clear days!
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